Merchant Archive
Thread: Give me a single good reason why non-merchants should not be able to use a vendor?
Iago_C wrote:
Single good reason...
1) You don't have the skills for it.
Skills placing, not using, thx
If you don't have the skills to place a vendor, you shouldn't have the ability to operate one.
2) You don't want to invest the time nor skill points to become a merchant.
Umm, this post retains to those who did invest the time and surrendered.
You mean people who have been exploiting a bug to cheat the system?
3) You have the Bizaar that you can use for smaller items.
What things are you going to sell for 6k?
Lesser dropped loot, small stacks of harvested resources ect. Hence Smaller items
4) You can sell bigger items to merchants (WHO INVESTED THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY AND TIME TO BECOME SUCH)
And risk being ripped off.
Life is risk. Ifsomeone rips you, you don't do businesswith them. Plus always get the money up front.
5) You have the Planetary Auction Channel to try to sell an item.
Yes, but much more of a pain if you have to go to each person who may want it, then say never mind, I changed my mind.
Yes, it is a pain, but you didn't invest (Or decide to keep) skills that allow you to place and operate vendors. Just like it is a pain in the ass for Merchants to get combat types to clear mobs from around their shop. Its the price you pay for selecting your skillsets.
6) You can sell it Person to Person.
Once again, a pain in the ass
See Above
7) You have the Trade Boards on this forum (And many others like it).
Agreed on this
I'm glad we agree on something!
Nope, Couldn't think of a single good reason for you not to have merchant skills without investing skill points.
The fact that it is a waste of skill points for a PvE, PvP, or crafter + smuggler combo?
Yes, it would be, unless you want to use a vendor. Hell, if you are a crafter, you ALREADY have artisan skills, why not invest the 6 extra points to place a vendor?
Here is a thought, and it is just a thought... If I pick up a weapon that I don't have a cert for, why does it to hardly any damage? (Example, I was playing with a DX-2 I was selling, it was sliced to do 200pts of damage, yet it was only hitting for 10 - 20pts) Isn't it the same weapon that a pistoleer can use for much more damage? Is the gun different between us? I think its a waste that I can't use any weapon in the game, heck, I'm just a crafter/merchant, why should I waste my precious skill points in something as useless as weapon skills?
Elyssa wrote:
Sigrun wrote:
Edit: Come ON, Merchants! That was a GREAT story about Toad-Punching! Hook a fellow vendor-wrangler up with some stars if you liked it!
5-stars for the toad punching!
I'm taking 3 of them back if you start licking them, tho.
But But Homer was a toad licker
Oh, Sig, 5 star'd ya also
Barris wrote:
One, a WS using a flamethrower doesn't ruin the economy. Eliminating how many venders for those who like PvE or PvP and don't have SP to put into this profession does.
You mean it ruins YOUR bank account; not the overall economy. All those who have all these PvE, PvP and don't WANT to devote a few skills points are just cooking up excuses about why they should be able to participate in a merchant economy without being held to an EQUAL standard.
THATS the problem with all these empty vendors you guys keep complaining about. Many of them are owned by you PvE/PvP uber guys. You don't really care about selling anything. If you do its just gravy for your storage unit. You'd rather be out killing stuff (refer to the Toad story above). When the vendor gets empty, oh well, you'll get to it later. You'd rather be out PvPing.
PEOPLE ARE GETTING TIRED OF DRIVING HALFWAY ACROSS THE PLANET TO SEE YOUR VENDORS WITH NOTHING LEFT ON THEM BUT YOUR PERSONAL STORAGE CRAP.
The measly 24 points it takes for business 3 will do marginally NOTHING to detract from your PvE/PvP. The fact that you don't WANT to do it is only testament to the fact that you are hypocritically guilty of the economic greed that you accusethe merchants of when theyonly want to protect their profession and investment.
Merchant is useful for selling this.
Oooh you got one right! /clap
just a waste of SP for those whose template is how they want it.
Apparantly its not that useless, otherwise you wouldn't have claimed to have merchant skills now would you? Unless of course you're lying.
The economy doesn't run off commandos, it runs off people selling things.
Actually the economy is run on supply and demand. Chefs need meat, weaponsmiths need schematics and looted components, armorsmiths need segments and other looted components, tailors now need looted components. ALL these crafters already have a means by which you can sell your stuff for whatever price you like. Just email them and negotiate a price for you to place it on their vendors. There you have it! You are participating in the economy and you don't even have to have merchant skills! DUH!
Iago_C wrote:
Here is a thought, and it is just a thought... If I pick up a weapon that I don't have a cert for, why does it to hardly any damage? (Example, I was playing with a DX-2 I was selling, it was sliced to do 200pts of damage, yet it was only hitting for 10 - 20pts) Isn't it the same weapon that a pistoleer can use for much more damage? Is the gun different between us? I think its a waste that I can't use any weapon in the game, heck, I'm just a crafter/merchant, why should I waste my precious skill points in something as useless as weapon skills?
Difference is thesellers and buyers of the weapons run the economy. Venders are what the enconomy is largly based around. Sure there are other things such as trade with person to person, trade forums, etc. However, that makes for a much lower % of the enconomy's status.
Where as your reference to weapons and being used, venders are currently that way. We can put stuff on them, pay to keep them up, and thats it. We cannot customize them, put new ones up, have reduced fees, etc. So really it is the same type of thing. We can use them, just not with all the perks, thus the dmg and special moves people certified for the weapon have.
It was edited to reduce the other crap. I had responces on it, but nothing really important that I hadn't already said.
With out the skills is like being able to use the base attack on a gun. You get nothing special to go with it. You can use it, but not as effeciently.
My issues lie in two places. One, having to have merchant (not just for myself, but anyone else in my situation) and the effect it has on your template. Two, the economy. If you have to go through other people to sell your stuff, prices will jump to make up for any deals the seller may have made with the merchant during the transaction, along with the risk that the person will get ripped off.
Message Edited by Barris on 08-14-2004 09:13 AM
Super_nice_jedi wrote:
Yes they're not pets, vendors are inanimate objects, pets are not,
Weapons, stim Bs, poisons, molecular clamps, etc. These are all inanimate objects. Why can't just anyone be able to use these without the required skills? Feable arguement.
but what I meant was if non-CH can use pets to a limited degree
Non-CH pets existto allow you to have a mount; which is a means of transportation. The other nonCH pets are whats left of the nerfed versions of the overpowered types of nonCH pets that once existed. Many of you weren't aroundwhen cowardly gurrecks and beetle tanks dominated PvP.
then why can't non-merchants use vendors to a limited degree?
Because just like the nonCH pets of the past, the player base has demonstrated over and over how they will use EVERY loophole in the system to abuse it.
BTW, it was you, Mr. Super_nice_jedi, that confessed in another thread that you we all set to get enough merchant skills to set up a mall and then drop the skills only to find out from a Dev's statement that it was wrong. Yet you come here to this thread cooking up more excuses and reasons why you think you should go ahead and set up that virtual Walmart. I am truely begining to think that you still do not think thats there's anything wrong with it despite your confession to the contrary.
Also what I suggest will make the vendors for non-merchants so limited, that sacrificing skills to make them more useable in merchant,will be worth it, as without the other merchant skills the vendors will be virtually useless, but manageable to accept offers from the other merchants/crafters, so if this could be, then Merchant would be a whole lot better.
Making those that want to surrender the needed skill points (A MEASLY 24 FRIGGIN' POINTS) to get business 3 WILL make the merchant profession a whole lot better.
MaDuece wrote:
Super_nice_jedi wrote:
Yes they're not pets, vendors are inanimate objects, pets are not,
Weapons, stim Bs, poisons, molecular clamps, etc. These are all inanimate objects. Why can't just anyone be able to use these without the required skills? Feable arguement.
These don't affect the economy and actually makes a very valid arguement.
but what I meant was if non-CH can use pets to a limited degree
Non-CH pets existto allow you to have a mount; which is a means of transportation. The other nonCH pets are whats left of the nerfed versions of the overpowered types of nonCH pets that once existed. Many of you weren't aroundwhen cowardly gurrecks and beetle tanks dominated PvP.
It still allows use to a limited degree, thus venders.
then why can't non-merchants use vendors to a limited degree?
Because just like the nonCH pets of the past, the player base has demonstrated over and over how they will use EVERY loophole in the system to abuse it.
BTW, it was you, Mr. Super_nice_jedi, that confessed in another thread that you we all set to get enough merchant skills to set up a mall and then drop the skills only to find out from a Dev's statement that it was wrong. Yet you come here to this thread cooking up more excuses and reasons why you think you should go ahead and set up that virtual Walmart. I am truely begining to think that you still do not think thats there's anything wrong with it despite your confession to the contrary.
Try making an arguement instead of flames.
Also what I suggest will make the vendors for non-merchants so limited, that sacrificing skills to make them more useable in merchant,will be worth it, as without the other merchant skills the vendors will be virtually useless, but manageable to accept offers from the other merchants/crafters, so if this could be, then Merchant would be a whole lot better.
Making those that want to surrender the needed skill points (A MEASLY 24 FRIGGIN' POINTS) to get business 3 WILL make the merchant profession a whole lot better.
Your measly 24 points can really ruin a combat template.
Barris wrote:
No, it ruins the economy. Basic economics will tell you that.
No it won't. From the nature of your arguements its painfully clear you have not the slightess clue about economics.
Having to sell through people means that people hike up price to make up for having to go through another party.
Where exactly does selling your loot directly to a crafter/merchant's vendor create that middle-man? Besides, increasing the limit from its present proposal will prevent crafters from having to use a merchant retailer. TH has already said that he is working on that.
Secondly, mine actually sells stuff on it, its not storage. I have houses for that.
Bully for you. A lot of people do actually use vendors for storage. Take a ride around the vendor district and Coronet and Theed and you'll see what I'm talking about.
Actually, 24 points makes a huge difference in a combat template (which you obviously do not have). Infact, those 24 points cost me my template. I had to give up my template inorder to get merchant again. 24 points = one less profession I can master.
WAAAHHHH!!!!!!!! I can't master everything!
Actually, once again basic economics, if you have more people selling items, the prices go down.
WRONG! Adecrease inDEMANDcauses prices togo down. Just because more people are selling pearls doesn't mean pearls are going to be cheaper. As longas the demand for pearls remains high, the price for pearls remains high. More proof that you have no clue about economics.
I didn't call it useless. I said it was devistating to any combo of professions because of skill point cost.
Its that way for EVERY profession vs what you want to accomplich in this game. Being able to sell on a vendor is as much of an accomplishment and aspect of gameplay as "punching toads" (refer to the story). I have no sympathy for your lack of combo-profession-flavor-of-the-month.
Once again, this is a pain. Did you even read the original post that that was in response to?
Yes. I heard you loud and clear. You want the ability to sell your loot WITHOUTANY added effort or cost to yourself.
Having to seek out anyone is a pain when they can go to you and see exactly what you have while you go about your business.
For my chef business I recently purchased 2 100k blocks of premium dath carnivore meat from a hunter who SOUGHT ME OUT. I paid him 8 MILLION CREDITS for his "added pain". So you are suggesting that he have the ability to force ME seek HIM out without any risk or cost to him? 8 million credits certainly seems like it was worth the added effort and "pain".
Face it. The free ride will soon be over. Adapt to it or get left behind.
Barris wrote:
MaDuece wrote:
Super_nice_jedi wrote:
Yes they're not pets, vendors are inanimate objects, pets are not,
Weapons, stim Bs, poisons, molecular clamps, etc. These are all inanimate objects. Why can't just anyone be able to use these without the required skills? Feable arguement.
These don't affect the economy and actually makes a very valid arguement.
They DO affect the economy. They ALL cost money to get unless you make them yourself OR you get a friend to make them for you. And that goes for the nonCH pet as well.
but what I meant was if non-CH can use pets to a limited degree
Non-CH pets existto allow you to have a mount; which is a means of transportation. The other nonCH pets are whats left of the nerfed versions of the overpowered types of nonCH pets that once existed. Many of you weren't aroundwhen cowardly gurrecks and beetle tanks dominated PvP.
It still allows use to a limited degree, thus
venders. the bazaar.
then why can't non-merchants use vendors to a limited degree?
Because just like the nonCH pets of the past, the player base has demonstrated over and over how they will use EVERY loophole in the system to abuse it.
BTW, it was you, Mr. Super_nice_jedi, that confessed in another thread that you we all set to get enough merchant skills to set up a mall and then drop the skills only to find out from a Dev's statement that it was wrong. Yet you come here to this thread cooking up more excuses and reasons why you think you should go ahead and set up that virtual Walmart. I am truely begining to think that you still do not think thats there's anything wrong with it despite your confession to the contrary.
Try making an arguement instead of flames.
Not a flame. A FACT. Mr. Super_nice_jedi is going back on his word about "feeling bad" about taking part in an exploit as he so proclaimed in another thread. I am calling him out on that since he decided to troll to this thread.
Also what I suggest will make the vendors for non-merchants so limited, that sacrificing skills to make them more useable in merchant,will be worth it, as without the other merchant skills the vendors will be virtually useless, but manageable to accept offers from the other merchants/crafters, so if this could be, then Merchant would be a whole lot better.
Making those that want to surrender the needed skill points (A MEASLY 24 FRIGGIN' POINTS) to get business 3 WILL make the merchant profession a whole lot better.
Your measly 24 points can really ruin a combat template.
Then you have to make a choice don't you? Merchants have to make a choice between running a profitable business vs "punching toads". What makes you so special that you should be exempt from the same choices as everyone else?
MaDuece wrote:
Barris wrote:
No, it ruins the economy. Basic economics will tell you that.
No it won't. From the nature of your arguements its painfully clear you have not the slightess clue about economics.
Uhh ok. What happens is, less items for sale. Prices go up. This is also because of the cap on items, which will cause merchants to spend more time at their venders restocking. If you have to go through another party, you have to mark it up because very few people will do it for free, they will want a cut on the profit. You clearly must be a republican, your economics sounds like theirs.
Giving a tax cut to a lower income person = they have a little money to spend. This increases demands for products. This makes people hire people to meet that demand. The economy goes up.
Give a tax cut to big business. They hire it or pocket it. Say they hire, theres still a large precent that won't get a job. A slight demand in products will go up from those who now do have a job. However, it's a false economy. After business quits being at its peak, the companies get worried. They fire people, and were back to where we started.
Having to sell through people means that people hike up price to make up for having to go through another party.
Where exactly does selling your loot directly to a crafter/merchant's vendor create that middle-man? Besides, increasing the limit from its present proposal will prevent crafters from having to use a merchant retailer. TH has already said that he is working on that.
Didn't mean for myself. I mean for other merchants. TH has no clue on what he talks about... ever. He says combat medic works as intended, then says theres a ranged bug. He says buildings over spawn areas doesn't inhibit the spawn cycle, I have conducted tests. It does. If you get your information from him, the one who has no clue on how the game works at all, your not going to know what you are talking about.
Secondly, mine actually sells stuff on it, its not storage. I have houses for that.
Bully for you. A lot of people do actually use vendors for storage. Take a ride around the vendor district and Coronet and Theed and you'll see what I'm talking about.
I see empty venders. Not storage. The empty vender deletion thing/removal from map is a good thing.
Actually, 24 points makes a huge difference in a combat template (which you obviously do not have). Infact, those 24 points cost me my template. I had to give up my template inorder to get merchant again. 24 points = one less profession I can master.
WAAAHHHH!!!!!!!! I can't master everything!
Best you can do is come up with a flame?
Actually, once again basic economics, if you have more people selling items, the prices go down.
WRONG! Adecrease inDEMANDcauses prices togo down. Just because more people are selling pearls doesn't mean pearls are going to be cheaper. As longas the demand for pearls remains high, the price for pearls remains high. More proof that you have no clue about economics.
ROFL, omg, you are a moron. Why do you think rare items sell for so much. Less of the total number of an item, the higher demand, and higher price. If people sell a ton of items and they are no longer rare, the pricing goes down. It's like with anything in real life. Oil shortage = raised prices.If youask people how economics work, they will agree with my side over yours.
An example of this was the krayt nerf. They removed lairs, thus less spawns. They also made them harder to kill. This caused less loot to be dropped. The prices jumped.
I didn't call it useless. I said it was devistating to any combo of professions because of skill point cost.
Its that way for EVERY profession vs what you want to accomplich in this game. Being able to sell on a vendor is as much of an accomplishment and aspect of gameplay as "punching toads" (refer to the story). I have no sympathy for your lack of combo-profession-flavor-of-the-month.
I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm looking at it for smuggler/WS or smuggler/AS. It's not just me, it's anyone who has a template that doesn't require crafting. Crafters have very little excuse. Combat professions actually do. Crafters have to have artisan (less med crafting), and the skill tree for merchant is also in there.
Once again, this is a pain. Did you even read the original post that that was in response to?
Yes. I heard you loud and clear. You want the ability to sell your loot WITHOUTANY added effort or cost to yourself.
Why should I have to have a cost? I pay the venders to stay up, thats the cost.
Having to seek out anyone is a pain when they can go to you and see exactly what you have while you go about your business.
For my chef business I recently purchased 2 100k blocks of premium dath carnivore meat from a hunter who SOUGHT ME OUT. I paid him 8 MILLION CREDITS for his "added pain". So you are suggesting that he have the ability to force ME seek HIM out without any risk or cost to him? 8 million credits certainly seems like it was worth the added effort and "pain".
How many people have ever done that?
Face it. The free ride will soon be over. Adapt to it or get left behind.
After this long it should be left as is.
Message Edited by Barris on 08-14-2004 10:08 AM
Barris wrote:
Uhh ok. What happens is, less items for sale. Prices go up. This is also because of the cap on items, which will cause merchants to spend more time at their venders restocking. If you have to go through another party, you have to mark it up because very few people will do it for free, they will want a cut on the profit.
Actually this would be a consequence if the limits are set too low. If the limit is set high enough to where you don't need to employ a third party to sell your products for you then people who want to take up merchant purely for resale will be kept in check by crafter/merchants who operate their own vendors.
You clearly must be a republican, your economics sounds like theirs.
Actually, I'm an independent, which by the way, is completely irrelevent to our discussion.
Giving a tax cut to a lower income person = they have a little money to spend.
Taxes have nothing to do with our discussion. Quit grasping.
TH has no clue on what he talks about... ever. If you get your information from him, the one who has no clue on how the game works at all, your not going to know what you are talking about.
TH gets paid by SOE for whatever reason. The information that he puts out can be held accountable on a business to customer standard. If the customer doesn't like the spin then the customer has the choice not to buy the product.
Are you here because you actually care about the merchant changes? Or are you here because your bitter that your precious poison-spamfest got nerfed and now they are going to change the merhcant standards so you can't exploit vendors anymore?
I see empty venders. Not storage. The empty vender deletion thing/removal from map is a good thing.
I see dozens of storage vendors that are used for sales on the side. When the sale items get sold, all thats left are storage items and the vendor is STILL registered on the planetary map. Simply removing empty vendors from the map will do nothing for this problem.
WAAAHHHH!!!!!!!! I can't master everything!
Best you can do is come up with a flame?
You call it a flame. I call it being blunt and straight to the point.
ROFL, omg, you are a moron.
Best you can do is come up with a flame?
Why do you think rare items sell for so much. Less of the total number of an item, the higher demand, and higher price. If people sell a ton of items and they are no longer rare, the pricing goes down.
Actually pearls aren't as rare as everyone seems to think. There are 3 guilds on my server that do nothing but camp the graveyard 24/7. One of them has even named themselves "Krayt". Jedi know to go to one of these guilds if they need pearls. The price variations you see publicly have to do with the varying stats.
But I'll let you have this one and say that I used pearls as a bad example. Lets use the vehicles instead and I'll type real sssslllllloooowwww so you can "get it".
When vehicles 1st came out everyone and their dog was making them. They were charging anywhere from 30k to 200k for a swoop. Pretty soon everybody had one. Did fewer people start making them? NO. Only after they couldn't sell any because everyone had one did production go down. Now that fewer people make them did the price go back up? Not just no but HELL NO! Why? Because everyone has one!
It's like with anything in real life. Oil shortage = raised prices.If youask people how economics work, they will agree with my side over yours.
People that try to use real life analogies in this game crack me up. It only proves how clueless they are about real life.
Oil shortage doesn't = raised prices if there were fewer vehicles. Higher gas prices are not the cause of any shortage in oil; its the shortage of oil refineries AND the number of vehicles on the road.
The price of oil is seasonal. Demand is high in the summer time because more people are driving to go on vacation. It comes down after kids start school and fewer families go on vacation. It goes back up when the weather starts getting cold and oil is needed for heating fuel for homes and power plants for electricity. This is all contingent on the fact that people are killing each other over oil. Did you take notes? Learn anything?
I'm not asking for sympathy. I'm looking at it for smuggler/WS or smuggler/AS. It's not just me, it's anyone who has a template that doesn't require crafting.
So now WS and AS can no longer slice their own stuff AND have vendors. A big WAAAHH to that as well. Smugglers are entitled to have their businesses as well. So its still a good thing. BTW I'm a master WS and I still agree with this restriction.
Crafters have very little excuse. Combat professions actually do. Crafters have to have artisan (less med crafting), and the skill tree for merchant is also in there.
Combatants already have too many excuses for "owning" this game. They have their function/content. Its called combat.
Why should I have to have a cost? I pay the venders to stay up, thats the cost.
Because merchants have to have a cost if they want to engage in combat. Why should you get merchant skills for free? Vendor costs are nothing compared to their functional usefulness.
For my chef business I recently purchased 2 100k blocks of premium dath carnivore meat from a hunter who SOUGHT ME OUT. I paid him 8 MILLION CREDITS for his "added pain". So you are suggesting that he have the ability to force ME seek HIM out without any risk or cost to him? 8 million credits certainly seems like it was worth the added effort and "pain".
How many people have ever done that?
There are over a dozen chefs on my server that do this every time there is a good meat spawn. Go to the Bloodfin trade forums and have a look.
Face it. The free ride will soon be over. Adapt to it or get left behind.
After this long it should be left as is.
Ah yes. the continued excuses for why you should get something for nothing. So tell me. Were you one of those noobs that begged for money?
Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-14-200411:01 AM
Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-14-2004 11:01 AM
MaDuece wrote:
Super_nice_jedi wrote:
Ho-humm, you really are in lynch mode! /sigh
I'm not going back on my word, the vendors with very limited capability as I have suggested will not be good enough for what I want, and to get what I want, I'll need the necessary Merchant Skills, but I want my customers to have a facility where I can deliver their ordered goods too. If they had a vendor or something, maybe even a droid acting as postbox, I don't care, but I know that vendors have an offer facility. How this would benefit a Merchant is that if you had regular customers who buy stuff from you say on a weekly basis, you could make a delivery to their house, and offer it to their vendor, this would save you from filling up your vendors for passing customers, and fill theirs up instead, of stuff they want. The non-merchant vendors primarily (in my dream world) would mainly focus on the accepting of goods, rather than the selling, so maybe their vendors could probably hold about 5-10 items to sell, and accept up to 50 items they have purchased from several businesses.
The Bazaar is totally no good, as you can not offer an item to one individual.
What you are talking about then, if indeed its you true intentions, is not a vendor at all. Its a mailbox. In which case, its a different issue than having a vendor and doesn't belong in the same class or discussion.
Super_nice_jedi wrote:
Not really, as a vendor can do the job quite easily, but you're just dead against non-merchants having a vendor full stop, like Sigrun I grow tired of this discussion