Merchant Archive

Thread: I think the proffesion of merchant itself is stupid. So I have a new idea.

DocSavag
Fri May 21, 2004 5:36 am
#40

I think we could do with a little calm on this subject. Everyone practice your Jedi breathing techniques for a few minutes.


I think we all agree that the Merchant profession could be much more than it is. We have many proposals for adding to it. Hopefully many of those will be done.


The position that Merchant isn't worth it because "you don't use your skills once you place your vendors" is the description of one of the broken things about the profession. One that the devs have stated they will fix. You DO use your skills. You use them everytime you put items on a vendor. You use them everytime one of those emails comes in signaling that you've made a profit on an item you just sold. Those ARE your skills in action. They are no more irrelevent to Merchant than firing a weapon are to a combat profession or making a stimpack is to a medic. That is what we do..we sell things. One of the ways we do that is with our vendors, using them and having them service our customes is our chief skill..3 of our 4 skill trees are skills involving vendors. Suggesting that"Placing them" is the only skill is only true right now because of a flaw in the code. When that is changed you won't be able to just place them and not have the skill. The skill will become valuable again.



That isn't to suggest that you can't do without them. You can sell things on the bazaar if you choose, you can sell them from the starport. You can sell them to people in the cantina. You can advertise on the forums if you like. You could even offer to sell them at a slight discount to a merchant and both of you make a profit. You from crafting him from operating the vendor and paying the advertising and managing the stock. The point of all of this is the we are only asking that the sacrifice of running your own shop be returned to the game to make it more challenging to play the merchant profession.







----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder



Balkstar
Fri May 21, 2004 9:07 am
#41








DragonScout wrote:


That is it. Now, all of those things are passive. You can't actually USE them daily. ANYONE can buy things. Anyone can set up factories, harvesters, houses, etc, and pay maintence on them. And anyone can use the forums and bazaar to sell things. So what is it that merchants have that they use daily that is something only they can do? I don't see it. give me facts, not one-sided opinions with nothing to back them up.

Combat/crafting professions daily use their abilities and skills, they have a variety to choose from. Merchants don't. And that is something that needs to be fixed in my opinion if they want this to be a real profession.

Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire







Skills are used to improve the characters abilities within the profession, but they do not need to be well-defined as +10% accuracy of a weapon. Smeone had posted earlier, flamethrowers can be used by anyone in any professon. I guess thenthat anyone can call themselves commandos. By the same token, anyone can call themselves merchants. Whether the skills are passive or active, the intention is to give the person that invests in the skills an advantage in the profession than those that did not.


As it stands. These vendors, that are are passive skills in nature, still have value to them. Otherwise there wouldn't be the overwelming exploitation of them. If they are so unimportant to exploiters, why not turn off Global mapping, or dressing a vendor, or plopping down a merchant tent. Theyaren't real skills now are they?


Everything of value has to have cost. That is the nature of scarcity.



Balkstar Bartoc - 56th level Smuggler, Ex-Master Smuggler, Ex-Master Merchant, Privateer Ace Pilot,

Coosin Larstar - 90th Level Jedi, Ex-Master Fencer, Ex-TKM

Flurry

DragonScout
Fri May 21, 2004 4:38 pm
#42

Just wanted to say that I appreciate the merchant correspondent's reply. refreshing compared to the rest.

In general, I still don't see how fixing it so that only merchants can use vendors will fix anything long term. Yes, placing items is an active thing, but it is passive in that then you have to wait, or go sit in a spaceport and annoy the people around you with spam (from you or a droid, it is still spam). If anything, this 'fix' will just make what appears to me to be a utility profession limited to alt characters -- because everyone can find uses for the one thing it has, vendors -- and I guess that works for sony.

Like I have said before, until they add in features like trade contracts between cities, or a commidities market in cities that players can risk investments on, things that are active like that -- that they can actively participate in -- that doesn't involve stocking vendors, it isn't going to 'fix' anything because the main problem doesn't lie in people just wanting to use vendors without paying skill points for them. The problem lies in the fact that once you are a master merchant, and have set up vendors, there is nothing else for you to do. And until they fix that, Merchant as it is now, is nothing but a utility profession in my opinion (and obviously a lot of other peoples opinions or the problem with 'vendor poaching' wouldn't be an issue.)

If anything, my suggestion for this profession as it stands now, would be for it to require business 4, and then as long as you had that, you could work up through the merchant profession, and just use phantom skill points. This would free up 63 skill points, and would at least make it worth it. 29 skill points to invest in business 4 to get a utility isn't that bad. 92 is, with the current mechanics that merchants get.

Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire who isn't going to bother responding to the power monger guy or balkstar anymore because they have yet to say anything but the same flaming responses over and over and over again.



Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of Shadowfire
ORyanNosann
Fri May 21, 2004 6:50 pm
#43






DingoBoi wrote:

so unrefreshing that you still don't get that many people play this as their primary profession and giving up the skills to you poachers is not going to happen.






/agree, and a 5 star post for you!



Jeck Runningwave on Eclipse - Entertainer
Ko'die Runningwave on Eclipse - Spy

DocSavag
Fri May 21, 2004 6:57 pm
#44




DragonScout the 63 skill points are there for a reason. They are there to make it a choice. If everyone can have 6 vendors and sell 24 hours a day then running a merchant shop ceases to be a challenge at all from a game mechanic standpoint. Having to give up skill points to run a shop makes you decide what you want to do with your SWG "life" you decide if you want to be a Doctor who heals people or a doctor who sells buffs on a vendor or both.. but you have to give up skill points to do it. That is one of the challenges of the game.


There are a lot of good ideas for making the merchant profession more. I love the idea of "trade agreements" between cities and merchants should play a part in that when it comes to pass, but there won't be a merchant profession to do it if we don't protect the skills we already have.





----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder



Ijuakos
Fri May 21, 2004 10:07 pm
#45



DarthEhsan wrote:
From the minute this game came out I wanted a shop with vendors. But then I learned I need merchant to go ahead and do this. So I did. But it held alot of skill points for something I do not use anymore. With everyother proffession you use the new skill points and mastering the proffesion does something. If I start a buisness why should i go under just because I drop these unused skill points. So I have an idea.
Maybe Merchants should get manager skill points. Let non merhcants buy vendors from merchants and then hire the merchants as mangers, You use the vendors as normal but every week you have to pay and extra fee to the merchant that placed the vendor for you. You all decide the fee yourself and that is it. Non Merchants keep the vendors and People with the Merchant skills get an extra fee a week. If the manager drops the skill points you get a mail and 30 days to find a replacement.
There a soultion we can all agree on.





The only problem with any new idea that sounds good on paper is you got to throw in the human factor. Someone out there would find a way to abuse this idea.. I can already think one right off.



Don't be too proud of this Jedi Knight you've constructed. The ability to destroy a n00b is insignificant next to the power of the nerf bat.
- Darth Thunderheart

SOE - We nerf more professions before 7am than most companies nerf all day.

Posting and You!
DragonScout
Fri May 21, 2004 11:41 pm
#46

The only problem with calling 63 skill points invested in merchant a 'challenge' is that there is no challenge to it. You set up vendors, and wait for the experience to trickle in. That isn't a challenge. That is boredom. Especially once you get master because then you get nothing from merchant except reduced maintence fees.

Claiming that then viewing other peoples vendors and buying them out to resell at higher prices and various other non-mechanic-supported activities might float your boat, and might be commendable in the realm of RP, but from the viewpoint of "what do I get for my buck?" Merchant, as the profession is right now, is a bad buy -- even if they fix it so that only merchants can have vendors.

I think I am done posting here. I think this profession could have a lot of potential. But it seems to me that there is a lot of narrow-mindedness centered around 'vendor poaching'. To me, it is a non-issue and people that do it will be dealt with whenever they fix it, and the majority of discussion shouldn't be centered around bashing people who do it, but around ways to make it so that those 'poachers' would WANT to keep their skill points invested in merchant.

Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire who is an evil terrible nasty exploiter that is sure to be going to some part of hell because he plans to 'vendor poach'. hehe

ps. if I post here again, it will be with a more detailed suggestion for a commodities market. I have dealt with them in other games and have enough experience with working models to hopefully offer something the DEVs can use. Thanks for the responses DocSavag.

Message Edited by DragonScout on 05-21-2004 11:42 PM



Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of Shadowfire
DingoBoi
Sat May 22, 2004 12:37 pm
#47

anybody notice that is only NOOBS posting responses here and in other threads.. yes they might have been registered sicne launch.. but if you only have 7 posts... i don't think i'm going to respect your opinion.


Especiallyl not the fools posting on this forum who want skills for free.





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Ijuakos
Wed May 26, 2004 9:48 pm
#48



DingoBoi wrote:

anybody notice that is only NOOBS posting responses here and in other threads.. yes they might have been registered sicne launch.. but if you only have 7 posts... i don't think i'm going to respect your opinion.

Especiallyl not the fools posting on this forum who want skills for free.






No 7 post count people that I see off the bat.. surely, my 60 pales in comparison to your 1731. Board post count doesn't define who the experienced are in-game, though. You'd have to be pretty conceited to think that it was. And yes, I got master merchant and I've kept it since I got the training. I'm along with a couple of the others that posted in saying that it's probably not worth the 63 points, but the only way to fix this is to add stuff to the profession. The developers can't be expected to think of everything, so they got to get ideas from somewhere. The people that play the profession submit feedback. The subject line "I think the proffesion of merchant itself is stupid. So I have a new idea." suggests that this individual has an idea for the developer team to look into. You might not agree with his ideas, but stuff such as this comment quoted above is not very constructive.



Don't be too proud of this Jedi Knight you've constructed. The ability to destroy a n00b is insignificant next to the power of the nerf bat.
- Darth Thunderheart

SOE - We nerf more professions before 7am than most companies nerf all day.

Posting and You!
DingoBoi
Wed May 26, 2004 10:39 pm
#49






Ijuakos wrote:

No 7 post count people that I see off the bat.. surely, my 60 pales in comparison to your 1731. Board post count doesn't define who the experienced are in-game, though. You'd have to be pretty conceited to think that it was. And yes, I got master merchant and I've kept it since I got the training. I'm along with a couple of the others that posted in saying that it's probably not worth the 63 points, but the only way to fix this is to add stuff to the profession. The developers can't be expected to think of everything, so they got to get ideas from somewhere. The people that play the profession submit feedback. The subject line "I think the proffesion of merchant itself is stupid. So I have a new idea." suggests that this individual has an idea for the developer team to look into. You might not agree with his ideas, but stuff such as this comment quoted above is not very constructive.




The point i was making is that it is person who doesn't participate and hence, as seen by the absurd ideas put forth, are not knowledgeable in the profession. (and there was a 7 count poster when i posted that).


The way to fix it is to first stop the exploiters. PERIOD. Once that is done there should be a general cry for tools merchants can actually use. Combat issues are typically the first to get corrected and ARE paid more attention to. Our profession gets very little attention as well as other non-combat roles. Fix the EXPLOIT and people will demand the features. As it stands now, there is no reason for outcry to demand anything since poachers are fulfilling the market... and flooding it.


In reference to your comment about not being constructive.. well, the initial post was idiotic. The title states merchant is stupid and basically goes on to say how we can eliminate the profession. I don't call that constructive. Maybe in your small little world you do.



"But it held alot of skill points for something I do not use anymore." If he doesn't use it anymore, why does he want to keep it?With everyotherproffession you use the new skill points and mastering the proffesion does something. If I start a buisness why should i go under just because I drop these unused skill points. Um.. maybe because you don't have the skills of that profession anymore? So I have an idea. You have a way to try to get around the profession.


Maybe Merchants should get manager skill points. Let non merhcants buy vendors from merchants and then hire the merchants as mangers, You use the vendors as normal but every week you have to pay and extra fee to the merchant that placed the vendor for you. You all decide the fee yourself and that is it. Non Merchants keep the vendors and People with the Merchantskills get an extra fee a week. If the manager drops the skill points you get a mail and 30 days to find a replacement.


There a soultion we can all agree on. Making statements like this is asinine. We most certainly do not all agree upon that. We've seen what this has done for cross server harvester trading. Can you imagine what it would do with cross server merchants.


Have a nice day!





~ EPC SHIPYARDS ~
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Premium Ships & Components Featuring 5 Master Shipwrights * Powering the Eclipse Galaxy
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