Merchant Archive
Thread: I think the proffesion of merchant itself is stupid. So I have a new idea.
DingoBoi
Thu May 20, 2004 5:38 pm
#27
DragonScout wrote:
first off.. "irregardless" is not a word. Not sure who said it, but just think about it for a second.
next... I am just going to repost something I said earlier...
this is such a joke. I don't understand why people get upset when people drop merchant and keep their vendors. People who play merchants invest and keep this skill points. People like you will drop them and keep the skills, thereby giving you essentially an additional 64 skill points to play with. I plan to do it.Then that would make you an exploiter. Merchant is a WASTE of a profession and a complete waste of skill points. Merchant is not a waste of a profession or skill points. WHEN they fix it to prevent you exploiters from doing so, you will see how valuable it is. Yes, the profession could be buffed up however. If they should fix anything, they should completely remove the skill point cost for it and make it like they are talking about making the pilot professions for JTLS. I am not even sure how they can justify those not taking skill points if they are going to require merchants to take skill points --Merchant is a legit profession even though you may not see it as such. because at least as a pilot you can continue to actively use your pilot skills as you fly once you master. Merchant is a completely passive profession that once you master you can't do ANYTHING with because you set up vendors and then it's over. I do tons of active work everyday as a merchant. I manage real employees, pay salaries, make deals, raid other vendors. Don't complain about people who use the system in the only way that makes sense, complain about the system that doesn't make sense. I'll complain as much as I want when you know you are abusing it
If you are so hot for them to change it -- to fix the abuse you think is happening, come up with ideas to make the profession active. Again, you will seehowvaluable merchant can be when it is fixed. But I do agree we could use more 'active' skills.Because as it is now, you can't just claim that stocking vendors is active. It isn't. And it needs something beyond just setting up vendors and stocking them to make it a real profession. Merchant as designed was to give you use of vendors. Real merchant skill is more similar to twitch, with the ability to make deals build an empire.
If you aren't another profession, being a merchant is pointless because you can't do anything with it.Hmmm.. really? I'm not any type of crafter and I'm not a fighter, yet I make millions everday. By xmas I'll have hit 1 billion in sales. Maybe you call 1 billion nothing but i don't. Every other profession in the game you can actively participate in the world around you with, if you are only that profession. But you can't with merchant because it requires items to be sold which means you either have to get them through hunting loot or crafting them or buying them merchant gives you access to the tools to be a merchant which is a buyer and seller of goods. true, many crafters pick this up as away to vend their own goods. I can't speak for others, but I actively particpate in dealing with up to 38 employees at times... all active players with tons of needs of their own.. keeps me busy. -- and I don't know about you, but I can't see any way of getting credits as just a merchant so that you COULD buy/resell unless you use ebay or have friends give you loans. Built a billion credit business on my own by, guess what?... buying and reselling
And dont mention scout/ranger because you can actively participate in groups that need camps, and it is fairly easy to hook up with someone and get good resource harvests. So they are viable professions, unlike merchant. You see merchant as just selling stuff. Merchants see merchant as much much more than that and the skills provide us merely the tools to do so.
Sorry if I come off strong, but I really do think this entire issue is stupid. If you want to keep merchant, good for you. if you don't but want to keep your vendors, good for you. Let people do their own thing, and if/when the DEVs decide it should be changed, they will do it and people will adjust. Let me master a combat profession and then drop all the skillpoints from it,,,but let me keep the abilities... and i might agree with you.
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire
DragonScout
Thu May 20, 2004 6:15 pm
#28
well lets see. to respond.
If I am an exploiter, so be it. I don't even feel bad about it, because in my opinion, as I stated before, they should fix merchant by just making it use the same type phantom skill points that pilots are going to use.
Until they actually make merchant a viable profession that you can gain experience in by doing things and being active or give it some meaning beyond setting up vendors and never touching them again, I don't see how keeping skill points invested in a 'dead' profession makes me any better or worse than you. And it is a 'dead' profession because once you set up your vendors -- game over.
Even if/when they fix this oh so terrible abuse, it isn't going to matter to me because then I will just keep one vendor or just sell things on the boards or bazaar. because as merchant is right now, it is not worth -- to me -- 92 skill points just to have vendors set up.
And complain away. I mean oh no. Me, having vendors set up, really hurts your game play. lol. get realistic here guy. At the very least, if this is a problem the DEVs want to fix, the more people that do it, the more obvious it will be that they need to do something about it sooner. And really, it doesn't hurt you in any way. Though, I would like to know when most of you mastered merchant and if any of you used the 'exploit' to master it in what, less than an hour? because if any of you did that, I should hope you aren't saying anything about exploits. I am doing this the hard ugly way of sitting there for nearly a month while I wait for experience to trickle in.
As to you 'managing' 38 employees. lol. get real. I can do that even if I was set up in a combat pvp template. so nothing you are doing is related to merchant. At least nothing worth 92 skill points. That is the problem with a lot of what you responded with, most of it you can do WITHOUT merchant, and even with merchant, you don't get any tools that actually help you do any of that. So what do you GAIN from being a merchant and keeping those points invested? the titles?
And your comment about keeping the combat abilities after dropping it shows just how completely you miss the point. Combat professions give you abilities you can constantly use while you are that profession. If you drop it, you are a less effective fighter. If you are a merchant, you aren't any better at anything because you set up vendors once, dress them once, register them once, and for the most part, you are done. it isn't an ongoing daily process that you keep doing/keep using, like a combat profession or even a crafting profession. That is why people drop merchant because there is no use for it once you set up vendors. And even if they force you to keep merchant to have vendors, people will just make do without because it isn't a viable profession as it is now.
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire
If I am an exploiter, so be it. I don't even feel bad about it, because in my opinion, as I stated before, they should fix merchant by just making it use the same type phantom skill points that pilots are going to use.
Until they actually make merchant a viable profession that you can gain experience in by doing things and being active or give it some meaning beyond setting up vendors and never touching them again, I don't see how keeping skill points invested in a 'dead' profession makes me any better or worse than you. And it is a 'dead' profession because once you set up your vendors -- game over.
Even if/when they fix this oh so terrible abuse, it isn't going to matter to me because then I will just keep one vendor or just sell things on the boards or bazaar. because as merchant is right now, it is not worth -- to me -- 92 skill points just to have vendors set up.
And complain away. I mean oh no. Me, having vendors set up, really hurts your game play. lol. get realistic here guy. At the very least, if this is a problem the DEVs want to fix, the more people that do it, the more obvious it will be that they need to do something about it sooner. And really, it doesn't hurt you in any way. Though, I would like to know when most of you mastered merchant and if any of you used the 'exploit' to master it in what, less than an hour? because if any of you did that, I should hope you aren't saying anything about exploits. I am doing this the hard ugly way of sitting there for nearly a month while I wait for experience to trickle in.
As to you 'managing' 38 employees. lol. get real. I can do that even if I was set up in a combat pvp template. so nothing you are doing is related to merchant. At least nothing worth 92 skill points. That is the problem with a lot of what you responded with, most of it you can do WITHOUT merchant, and even with merchant, you don't get any tools that actually help you do any of that. So what do you GAIN from being a merchant and keeping those points invested? the titles?
And your comment about keeping the combat abilities after dropping it shows just how completely you miss the point. Combat professions give you abilities you can constantly use while you are that profession. If you drop it, you are a less effective fighter. If you are a merchant, you aren't any better at anything because you set up vendors once, dress them once, register them once, and for the most part, you are done. it isn't an ongoing daily process that you keep doing/keep using, like a combat profession or even a crafting profession. That is why people drop merchant because there is no use for it once you set up vendors. And even if they force you to keep merchant to have vendors, people will just make do without because it isn't a viable profession as it is now.
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire
Songe
Thu May 20, 2004 6:47 pm
#29
I don't get it... are you even a merchant to say that merchants are useless after you set them up? Cause I personally spend half my time online restocking my vendors etc.
DingoBoi
Thu May 20, 2004 6:59 pm
#30
he is your typically exploiter.. has some stuff he wants to sell... adds it and forgets about it for a week or two as the credits come in...
He is NOTHING like a real merchant who checks them daily.
He compares our skills to beign worthless since we 'never use them again'... oh if only it were that easy.
I typically check my vendors every single day i log in.. and perform maint and restocking and adding new items as needed.
He typically 'shoot's' stuff everyday. I don't see a difference in the use. We both use our 'skills'. I suppose he is a combat type who has great disdain for anythign non-combat that he used to be able to do in other games. I could be wrong.. but i doubt it.
DragonScout
Thu May 20, 2004 7:32 pm
#31
The problem, which is what I keep focusing on, is not whether or not people are using vendors wrong, but it is the fact that there is no reason to keep merchant once you get your vendors set up, because it has no ongoing use. Reduced fees is nice, but again, it isn't worth 92 skill points in my opinion.
As far as sales being 'stolen' that is a load of crap because one, you dont need to be a merchant to have a vendor, two, you can sell things on the bazaar, and three, you can sell things on the forums. So even without merchant or vendors, your sales are being 'stolen' if you want to look at it that way.
And it is not opinion, it is fact that merchant gives you zero tools beyond vendors and limited reduced fees to actually participate in the game enviroment. Compared to every other profession (though politician comes close) that gives you things you can actively use on a daily basis in many different situations, merchant is limited and 'dead'. Unless they fix merchant so that it gives you tools to play the game with, people will just use the bazaar or the forums more and more, especially if they 'fix' vendors.
You completely miss the point with combat/crafting professions vs. merchant. They are completely different because as a combat/crafting profession you actually get to DO something with the skills your skill points give you. With merchant, you get to set up vendors. And that is it. its over. Anything else you 'do' as a merchant you can 'do' as any other profession in the game. the only perks to keeping merchant are reduced fees, which really aren't even that important if you are making millions and are again PASSIVE skills.
If they are doing a revamp, great. I haven't heard about it and would like to know how they are going to make this an active profession instead of a passive one. But until they do that, it will never be worth the skill points.
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire
As far as sales being 'stolen' that is a load of crap because one, you dont need to be a merchant to have a vendor, two, you can sell things on the bazaar, and three, you can sell things on the forums. So even without merchant or vendors, your sales are being 'stolen' if you want to look at it that way.
And it is not opinion, it is fact that merchant gives you zero tools beyond vendors and limited reduced fees to actually participate in the game enviroment. Compared to every other profession (though politician comes close) that gives you things you can actively use on a daily basis in many different situations, merchant is limited and 'dead'. Unless they fix merchant so that it gives you tools to play the game with, people will just use the bazaar or the forums more and more, especially if they 'fix' vendors.
You completely miss the point with combat/crafting professions vs. merchant. They are completely different because as a combat/crafting profession you actually get to DO something with the skills your skill points give you. With merchant, you get to set up vendors. And that is it. its over. Anything else you 'do' as a merchant you can 'do' as any other profession in the game. the only perks to keeping merchant are reduced fees, which really aren't even that important if you are making millions and are again PASSIVE skills.
If they are doing a revamp, great. I haven't heard about it and would like to know how they are going to make this an active profession instead of a passive one. But until they do that, it will never be worth the skill points.
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire
DragonScout
Thu May 20, 2004 7:51 pm
#32
lol. I am merchant because I wanted to see what it was like and I had items to sell. I have played professions in other games that were similiar, but have more active roles, and was hoping this would be more like that. It isn't. But after getting halfway through, I want to finish it because I don't like quiting and because I got a holo that said I should keep going. (which sucks because even though I hate quiting.. I was about to.)
As far as typical exploiter. lol. You really do like to be offensive to other posters. You might try to pull back a bit on that and learn to discuss things without insulting other posters. And I do check and restock my vendors on a daily basis, just like I did with the bazaar before I started this path. There isn't much difference except that I can set up vendors in my home instead of using the bazaar and can sell for whatever price I want. Again, to me, that isn't worth 92 skill points.
And how do you know I shoot things all day? lol. I could be crafting all day. I was a BE/tailor which is part of why I went merchant. You really shouldn't make assumptions.
List, exactly, what you can do with the tools merchant gives you. Don't add in other things that you get no tools for. here.. I will start.
reduced bazaar fees, reduced structure fees, reduced vendor fees, vendors, ability to set up a tent, ability to register on the map, ability to dress vendors.
That is it. Now, all of those things are passive. You can't actually USE them daily. ANYONE can buy things. Anyone can set up factories, harvesters, houses, etc, and pay maintence on them. And anyone can use the forums and bazaar to sell things. So what is it that merchants have that they use daily that is something only they can do? I don't see it. give me facts, not one-sided opinions with nothing to back them up.
Combat/crafting professions daily use their abilities and skills, they have a variety to choose from. Merchants don't. And that is something that needs to be fixed in my opinion if they want this to be a real profession.
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire
As far as typical exploiter. lol. You really do like to be offensive to other posters. You might try to pull back a bit on that and learn to discuss things without insulting other posters. And I do check and restock my vendors on a daily basis, just like I did with the bazaar before I started this path. There isn't much difference except that I can set up vendors in my home instead of using the bazaar and can sell for whatever price I want. Again, to me, that isn't worth 92 skill points.
And how do you know I shoot things all day? lol. I could be crafting all day. I was a BE/tailor which is part of why I went merchant. You really shouldn't make assumptions.
List, exactly, what you can do with the tools merchant gives you. Don't add in other things that you get no tools for. here.. I will start.
reduced bazaar fees, reduced structure fees, reduced vendor fees, vendors, ability to set up a tent, ability to register on the map, ability to dress vendors.
That is it. Now, all of those things are passive. You can't actually USE them daily. ANYONE can buy things. Anyone can set up factories, harvesters, houses, etc, and pay maintence on them. And anyone can use the forums and bazaar to sell things. So what is it that merchants have that they use daily that is something only they can do? I don't see it. give me facts, not one-sided opinions with nothing to back them up.
Combat/crafting professions daily use their abilities and skills, they have a variety to choose from. Merchants don't. And that is something that needs to be fixed in my opinion if they want this to be a real profession.
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire
Songe
Thu May 20, 2004 7:55 pm
#33
That's the point. We want it fixed, we don't want people to come here and say that we don't need it.
DragonScout
Thu May 20, 2004 7:59 pm
#34
Then why do you concentrate on something that makes no difference at this point -- people using vendors without having the skill points tied up in it -- instead of coming up with ideas for ways to make it an active, viable profession? Half the posts I see in this section of the forums are complaints (mostly by the same people) against vendor exploiting. That doesn't solve the problem, and really doesn't mean anything in the long run because the evil terrible abusing exploiters will be dealt with if/when the DEVs do something about it.
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of Shadowfire
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of Shadowfire
Songe
Thu May 20, 2004 8:37 pm
#35
Well the fix will first come with making the skill points useful as you will need them to keep a merchant without paying a lot of maintenance as with the artisan tree vendors.
DingoBoi
Thu May 20, 2004 9:03 pm
#36
DragonScout wrote:
The problem, which is what I keep focusing on, is not whether or not people are using vendors wrong, but it is the fact that there is no reason to keep merchant once you get your vendors set up, because it has no ongoing use. Reduced fees is nice, but again, it isn't worth 92 skill points in my opinion. then don't play the profession and don't steal our skills that we invest skillpoints in. You know it's wrong. I don't think you are that stupid.
As far as sales being 'stolen' that is a load of crap because one, you dont need to be a merchant to have a vendor, two, you can sell things on the bazaar, and three, you can sell things on the forums. So even without merchant or vendors, your sales are being 'stolen' if you want to look at it that way. you can have a vendor at business 3.. that is in contention and disliked by many, but it is there. if you invest the skillpoints in that and keep them, I have no issue with it. It's fair by design. Don't even bother to compare the bazaar to vendors.. the cap is 6k and I sell mostly in 100k stacks.. bazaar is good for only low volume sales as it was designed to do. Forums... lol... auctions there are almost NEVER for power but only loot drops as i see it. You don't see your power broker hawking power there nor your tailer hawking a skirt.
And it is not opinion, it is fact that merchant gives you zero tools beyond vendors and limited reduced fees to actually participate in the game enviroment. Compared to every other profession (though politician comes close) that gives you things you can actively use on a daily basis in many different situations, merchant is limited and 'dead'. Unless they fix merchant so that it gives you tools to play the game with, people will just use the bazaar or the forums more and more, especially if they 'fix' vendors. merchant is not by nature an 'active' profession.. there aren't skills beyond vendors really. There i agree with you. So why do you steal them when you know that is the only benefit of the profession. You know you are stealing sales from real merchants. People like you disgust me.
You completely miss the point with combat/crafting professions vs. merchant. They are completely different because as a combat/crafting profession you actually get to DO something with the skills your skill points give you. With merchant, you get to set up vendors. And that is it. its over. Anything else you 'do' as a merchant you can 'do' as any other profession in the game. the only perks to keeping merchant are reduced fees, which really aren't even that important if you are making millions and are again PASSIVE skills. Merchants invest in the skill for the better ability to sell things.. primarily thought additional vendors. We DO do alot for those of us who are active in this profession. We destest scum who leach off our profession. A combatant uses his skills in shooting everyday. we use are skills in merchant everyday. Your skills are really limited to shooting a gun. Ours our limited to operating a vendor. I see NO difference between them.... except that you want our skills for free.
If they are doing a revamp, great. I haven't heard about it and would like to know how they are going to make this an active profession instead of a passive one. But until they do that, it will never be worth the skill points.They don't need to make it an active profession.. because a merchant profession is vastly different than a combat profession. But as we all know.. people like you will drop merchant and stop stealing our skills when you can't afford the skillpoints.
Zerathi/Shawn -- the grumpy wookiee of shadowfire
Andymantium
Thu May 20, 2004 9:28 pm
#37
DragonScout, if you're intending on vendor exploiting, fine. You can do it if you want, nobody can stop you. Just don't come back here and complain when all your items disappear when they fix the issue in the future.
DingoBoi
Thu May 20, 2004 10:02 pm
#38
If we followed his logic the game would be doomed.
Basically he is saying that since the profession is 'broken', we should give everyone the skills... well, guess what.. it the dev's followed that logic every profession would be available to everyone.
Chef is really the best analogy... going from a 'worthless' profession that people played to a 'hot' profession that more people played. Just because it is broken does not mean it's not worthy.
Coming to the merchant forum and dissing merchants invites arguements... why do you bother? If you want to post here, post how to make the profession more 'active' and enjoyable. Don't post that it sucks.
If you are looking for support that merchant is worthless profession, you aren't going to find it on the merchant forums.
DocSavag
Fri May 21, 2004 12:41 am
#39
Songe wrote:
I don't think vendors should be totally reserved to merchants. But higher maintenance costs,a smaller maximum number of items, and less tools for non merchants would be a good thing... like Doc said. I don't think that totally removing vendors from the artisan tree is a good idea personally. But there must be a bigger difference for merchants than what we have now.
I have never advocated the removal of the vendor in Artisan. I think it should be there, as a carrot for what lies ahead in the path of Merchant. It should give you a taste of how much easier it is to sell with a vendor but shouldn't be as efficient or effective as having a merchant on your side (whether that merchant is YOU or someone you hire)
The costs for running an Artisan vendor should be considerably higher than they are now because right now they aren't a financial burden at all (frankly the costs of all vendors are too low considering their prupose. If they were higher the role of Efficency would be much more appreciated)