Merchant Archive
Thread: Wow Garva posted
Cinderr
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:43 am
#40
Ok I've seen this word thrown around alot lately... so I looked it up..
Main Entry: oligopolist
Function: noun
Definition: a person who promotes and supports limited competition within a business market
Function: noun
Definition: a person who promotes and supports limited competition within a business market
How does a crafter who is successful in what he does limit the competition? Everyone is free to do as they please. I'm assuming by your name that you joined April 29 of this year... there are many people who joined at launch and went into crafting at that time. They've been scouring the lands for top quality resources. They have built a reputation because they have good resources, put in tons of hours and have top notch product. They SHOULD have an edge over someone who just started in April of this year.
DoctorBill
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:47 am
#41
I think they are making room for the JTL beta testing, people with accounts will probably play their current toons on test center with the beta for it or some similar idea, I really have no idea but it seems to make sense that this has come about right before JTL beta is released, the servers all lag pretty bad now and seem to only get worse as they add more, I think its cool to cut down on the amount of info saved to the server by limiting vendors but the number of itemshas to increase.
Everyone used all the god comments while quoting Garva and then you all say bad things to DocSavag for trying to say we have to calm down, there are many good points by many people, but cant you see why they dont want to talk on the forums? Everyone is always so negative!! I hate the forums because of all the negativity, I only come in here when its slow at work, I never come in the forums while at home, that cuts into game time.
I am a merchant that currently has5 vendors, 3 of them are around 100-150 items and the other two are around 4-500, I am comfortable with 500 limit, or even 300, I know that sony should take care of the problems on thier end, but dont you think they would if they could? Instead they are trying stuff out, I doubt we can keep things the way they are, so lets work constructively to help them come to a rational limit, the changes need to be made, lets work on a common ground rather than complain.
Flame me all you want, thats just my 2 cents, I will be affected but I doubt I will quit, I am waiting for them to mess up JTL before I quit.
fatgato
Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:48 am
#42
personally i feel the guy throwing around the olgopoly is just someone who wants to troll and stir the things up. He knows this is a sore subject with crafters, maybe he couldnt find a good suit of armor for cheap enough price. Maybe he tried crafting but couldnt hack it so he feels that he needs to take it out on everyone else. I have only 1 12 point crafter and that is my Doc . So just because the people on his server buys up all the skill tapes , everyone in all the other galaxies are bad evil people.... for wanting to be good at something.
rexan
Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:17 am
#43
DocSavag wrote:
These changes were announced months ago. They were originally scheduled to be done when the bazaar was raised to 6k. They got pushed around on the schedule and they ended up here. I don't have any information that suggests there is any JTL connection to the change but I have no real way of knowing that. It don't think this is a huge effort in terms of resources to make the changes we are talking about (not trying to trivialize the change its huge for us but its not a lot of manhours to do)
As for the suggestion that I was "muzzled" or silenced..no please don't take it like that. Correspondants occasionally get a preview of a response that is going to go out to the community. TH shared the numbers with me about a week ago and he I were talking about such things as aggregate limits and other suggestions when the patch went to TC. I wasn't specifically slienced about it, we just don't talk about those announcements ahead of time as they are supposed to be released publically by the dev team. The point of this is that its still an ongoing process. I wasn't done pushing TH for aggregate limits and the raising of the limits when the patch went to TC. Its still a fluid situation at this point.
In effect, the combat balance was announced almost 6 months ago with the CH re-balance. And we still don’t see that coming very soon. And yes, the vendor cap was suggested months ago. But at least we were getting feedback. However, we have had no announcement from the developers. It just magically popped up on test server. And checking the Dev tracker, we still haven’t had an announcement about it.
Don't get me wrong Doc, I think your doing a great job as always. I just wish the Devs would help you out. Right now you are the only one here doing crowd control. (and a very good job I might add). But the Devs have "dropped the bomb" on us. And they are doing absolutely nothing in the way of damage control.
Don't get me wrong Doc, I think your doing a great job as always. I just wish the Devs would help you out. Right now you are the only one here doing crowd control. (and a very good job I might add). But the Devs have "dropped the bomb" on us. And they are doing absolutely nothing in the way of damage control.
UPDATE:
guess i spoke too soon. TH has address this issue.
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Developers&message.id=49121#M49121
Message Edited by rexan on 08-10-2004 09:21 AM
Crimsonsplat
Tue Aug 10, 2004 10:03 am
#44
joined42904 wrote:
Baelinn,
There are reasons...such as making the game fun for everyone including younger crafters...why a "pure capitalist" economic model is not suitable to a game world.
Joined,
You gave the show away right there. You're a closet socialist. You joined 4/29/04? Great, I beat you by TWO DAYS: 4/27/04.
Let's compare:
I am now a successful Master Architect, doing 500k to 1m per week in sales. Small timer. The ONLY thing that happened out of the ordinary, is that just as I was 2 boxes from master (and finally breaking even financially), the senior Architect in our guild quit, and I got from him:
20 static medium mines,
14 static heavy mines
Two static factories,
Three BER 14 fusion deeds,
His shop (w/crafting stations),
Some ofhis components, like walls, generators,and modules.(NOT stock--he deleted that),
plus 1,000,000 credits to pay maintenance for the first few weeks while I built the business.
In toto, about half of his holdings. A huge boost? Hell yes. I figure about four months worth. Make me an oligopolist? Not hardly. Since then I've rented other lots from guildmates to add more harvesters and factories, and built my business up, despite moving it across the galaxy (his shop is nowhere near the guild town). The guild represents< 20% of my business by value. I am aten point Architect, and have no massive stocks; I busted my butt to buildup the business. I developed a plan, sought out a specific market, executed my strategy, and it is working.
Does it involve buying up everyone else's stocks so they're empty? No. I don't make enough.
Does it involve hogging all the best resources? No. I don't make enough.
Does it involve undercutting everyone else's prices to drive them out of business?No. In fact, I'm higher than most other vendors competing with me. Small houses: 20k, for instance.
What I am is *in stock.* And it requires a lot of items on the vendors to make sure I stay that way. I have a few other things I do to enhance my chances, but I'm not going to give away all the details. Every thing I do is aboveboard (except the cross-server lots, if you have an issue with that) andis a strategy found somewhere in these forums. And hard work. Lots of it.
In short, don't blame your lack of success on conspiricies, and then claim you need a nerf to help you deal with it. Thats a socialist's ploy: "government intervention to correct historical inequalities."
I probably come off harsher than I want too above (and I apologize if I have offended you), but I'm trying to make it perfectly clear: if you start blaming the world for your failures, you cannot be a success. Sony is about touse force majure to fubara winningstrategy used by many merchants. They havebased this action on their artificial (and distorted) views of what an economy should be, rather than what it IS.
LadyGrey
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:43 am
#45
DocSavage -
I have what I feel is a pertinent question to ask at this point: Is the lack of database space due to an inability to increase database space, or is it due to a lack of funds to increase the database space?
If it is due to a lack of funds, then I would suggest that a large portion of the crafting community might be amenable to the idea of being charged RL dollars, which could then be used to purchase more RL storage for the database, in exchange for having higher limits on their vendors and houses. Could call it a "value added" account. I do realize that some people have limited funds, but many crafters have multiple accounts already, and an extra fee could be a realistic way of dealing with this problem.
However, if the lack of database space is due to an inability to increase such space, then it would be good to know that.
If we are not given sufficient information, then how can we possibly make constructive remarks?
Zanholo
Tue Aug 10, 2004 11:56 am
#46
Thousands of non-guilded, non-uber, hard-working INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS will be so hampered by any cap that is not at, over or near 10k items.
I can't believe people still post about few merchants taking all the business on servers. Are you HIGH?!! EVERY SINGLE SERVER has has myriads of very profitable SOLO MERCHANTS! I know....I am one.
I currently only have around 3k items on 5 vendors, but I also closed one location vendor and have slowed down a tad on production recently due to playing combat character on another server.
Doc,I am all good about being rational...
If this get close to going live with anything less than the limits I describe, I will very rationally plop down that sixth vendor and slam as many items I can into...may 1 unit of copper x 10k...
If this harsh limit does goes live....no threat....I and many, many, many others WILL close our shops and do something else. We'll play other characters for about two weeks till those markets collapse....then we'll......who knows...
BoberFett
Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:20 pm
#47
Aeja wrote:
Actually the more I think about it Im kinda liking this idea. Since I dont work and have no kids (only 2 dogs that need walked occasionally) I spend between 60 to 80 hrs a week playing. I will be 1 of the few people on Flurry that will be able to keep the vendors stocked, I see lots of extra profits in the future . Kinda sucks Ill spend more time on my Master Merchant acct. but time=money for a business person and its not my money. So please disregard my earlier protests and proceed accordingly and keep up the good work. Next sugestion Id like to see is increase the decay on items like weapons and armor since my vendors will be stocked once a day at the minimun.
/salute DEVs for looking out for the hardcore gamer
Precisely. If this move is meant to help the casual crafter, it will do anything but. The casual crafter won't be able to keep a stocked vendor, and the hardcore gamers who are currently the wealthiest will still be the only place to shop.
MilannaSati
Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:38 pm
#48
joined 42904 wrote:
Baelinn,
There are reasons...such as making the game fun for everyone including younger crafters...why a "pure capitalist" economic model is not suitable to a game world.
I didn't say find your favorite vendor and stick with them. I said you need to find a LOCATION (such as Theed or Coronet) where you like to shop. Probably convenient to your base of operations.
I think it will be a good thing for merchants other than the oligarchs to experience an increased business volume. And so would you if you were one of them.
The other merchants are easy to find...just search the global map by category. If they're unstocked they won't show up at all. And ... if the merchants are smart they will have named their vendors something like "full suits of composite" or "rifles" or some such so that you will know that the particular item you seek is in stock before you go there. Just think about it...it's not so bad.
MilannaSati
Tue Aug 10, 2004 1:45 pm
#49
Doctor Bill wrote:
I know that sony should take care of the problems on thier end, but dont you think they would if they could? Instead they are trying stuff out, I doubt we can keep things the way they are, so lets work constructively to help them come to a rational limit, the changes need to be made, lets work on a common ground rather than complain.
Baelin_Radiant
Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:02 pm
#50
Look. Bottom line here is that they are imposing these caps to help SOE, not us. If you think they are going out of their way to do something extra special for us, then guess again. I'm not trying to make them sound like monsters, but realistically, they are making this change so that they don't have to invest in more servers. They may put a pretty bow on it or word to sound like they are doing this to help us but the cap is about money, not customers.
You'd think that they would increase servers as they gain new customers. However, it appears that the existing population is taking up more resources than they are willing to shell out for. So... ...they cap the vendors and deal with it that way. The "quality" of this game is only going to be allowed to go so high, then we will be told there's a limit. I don't know what $4,500,000 a month equates to in server costs, but I'd think it would at least accommodate us without having to place an unreasonable cap.
I know a recent post has been made to state that the cap will probably be higher, but please don't be pulled through that psychological hoop so easily. Of course they are raising it. More than likely, they introduced an extremely low cap "knowing" they'd increase it to make us look like they care. They probably had the higher cap as their original intended level and are hoping they can pull this all off by sounding like they listened to us after all.
I'm not insulting SOE. It's all business to them, but wake up and smell the coffee. Man, I can't believe how many people let them spoon-feed you this garbage and you not only eat it, then you come here and say how tasty it is.
Dharia
Tue Aug 10, 2004 2:48 pm
#51
Skypreacher,
You think the economy is fine. That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it. I don't think the economy is fine. I think it is dominated by a relatively small number of oligopolists and that this needs to change. We have a sincere difference of opinion.
Maybe you are one of these oligopolists. Maybe you sell your profits on ebay. Maybe you don't.
I think the dominant crafter/ebay currency sellers are the folks who would have the biggest problem with this change. To be sure, not all of them do ebay. But surely some of them do. After all, it takes less time to sell 2 or so suits of armor than to farm credits using janta missions. Of course the latter is generally more fun. All those credits for sale on ebay came from somewhere. And I think this is where. The oligopolists.
The folks hurt by this "nerf" are the very folks who buy up experimentation attachments after they already have their 12 points.
Well...as a newer crafter who is harmed by this practice...I support the new vendor limits in full. And I don't think the numbers even need to be raised. I can deal with the numbers as they presently exist. And so...I think...can the oligopolists.
... I'm not an oligopolist.... I've never sold anything on Ebay.... I'm no where near the "dominant" crafter status, what ever that means....
But I am a Tailorand a Merchant, I have other crafting/merchant characters and currently run 14 vendors that sell not only things I makebut those made by guild mates and other citizans of the city I live in. and I'm seriously opposed to this change.
I work hard in this game to be a crafter, I log on twice a day, every day, justto check my harvesters because I can't afford to have them sitting theredoing nothing because of a resourse shift. I work hard trying tomake sure my vendors are wellstocked and those that make the trek out to my shop won't be disappointed.
Takelook over at my registered date, and then addfour months too it, because it took me that long tobother registering on forums that knew I'd never spend the time reading. I've been a tailor for over a year now and the most money I've ever had at any one time is 500k, I guess that's pretty sad compared to the millions you've made in far less time... But Itry too keep my prices at a resonable levels, andconsideringthat up until the addition of limited schematics, the most I've ever charged for a single item of clothing that was Bio-Engineered is 7k, I think I've done pretty well for my self seeing that I have to sell dozens of items in order to make what you will get off one piece of armor.
But as a tailor, I have 235 regular clothing items I can make, not counting the limited run schematics, or adding Bio-Engineered Enhancements, or color combinations...
But then if your an AS and all people want to buy is Composite, which your customers get to color for themselves sparing you the inconvience of having to make sets in a varity of colors.... And not many people want armor other than Ubese or Composite, so you don't really have to make all that many items or have that much space on your vender...
Where I, as a tailor, have to sell a huge volume of itemsjust support my harvesters and factory. And how do I go about selling large volumes of clothing? By making and stocking large numbers of clothes... after all most people by clothing for looks not functionality, it's all about colors and styles. I have to keep my vendors stocked up with hundreds of items, just so that when customers come by, they can find something that they want to buy.
These item caps would cripple tailors,110 items to offer people would mean atI could carryeach of the types of clothing items I can make, in one of three colors... Which would mean that pretty soon everyone in game would be wearing black, white or red clothing...
Doesn't that sound lovely.
Please try and keep in mind that *your* not the only crafter in this game, and other professions may have very different vendor needs than you do.
joined42904
Wed Aug 11, 2004 12:00 am
#52
Ok...you want to compare?
I spend lots of my business earnings on resources.
I was also helped out by a person who has now left the game. I got some 998 cond copper and a factory and a willingness of a senior armorsmith to sell my repair tools in his shop. That paid for a bunch of harvesters and other factories.
I have never cross-lot traded anything. Nor will I ever. I regard doing so as an exploit, though I hear some architects claim it is a necessary exploit. As a non-architect, architects are about the only folks I wouldn't blame for having some sort of static harv farm.
When the senior armorsmith took a leave of absence, I acquired access to 5-7 factories, which I maintain and which leaves my lots for mining newer spawns so that I don't have to buy quite so much from the resource barons.
I run a relatively successful armorsmith business by competing with the other providers exclusively on a price basis with semi-decent qualityy goods. My 80kinetic 80 elec compo is now 68% base and I am in the process of doing a 62 base run of stun armor. Not the best on my server. But pretty decent all things considered.
I got folks into my shop by selling super-cheap ubese. I sold full suits of 70% and better kinetic ubese under 60k for a while. That will get your name out. 
Truth be told, after putting about 24M in the bank I'm starting to burn out on AS. But I think it would be fun if there were true scarcity of goods and folks were really, really interested in the armor.
As you can probably tell, I've enough credits that I can think about getting some exp points. (only have 1 exp point so far). Exp is extremely important to Armorsmith especially for stun armor and for ham on other armor types. Every time I advertise my armor on the trade boards folks ask me what the HAM is. And I tell them. The crazy part about AS is that you need to get multiple amazing successes on the same pieces for layers and segments to make a good product as a mere 10 point smith. I could sell the same thing will 11 points and it wouldn't take forever to make. Sometimes experimenting for an hour to get the results you want in a layer is just too mind-numbingly boring. It would be better if I could get some exp tapes, but those tend to be bought up by the folks who already have 12 points on my server. If they aren't edited, I can probably even link you to posts where already-12-point smiths clap for each other as they buy up the exp tapes. It's really rather sickening.
I'd say I've done ok also. Only I received a different kind of help than you did and I don't cross-lot. Still, for someone to be willing to sell those repair tools at no markup gave me a lot of money...probably more than 1M.