Merchant Archive
Thread: Changed again, can have all items on 1 vendor if you want
Aeja
Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:39 pm
#40
DocSavag wrote:
HunterCotC wrote:
Doc,
Maybe I missed it or there is no change. Do bagged items (armor, etc) count as 1 item for 10 items (composite suit + bag)? I remember you said in test previously that bagged items counted as 1.
Concerned Master Armorsmith / Master Merchant
On TestCenter currently they count at 1 item. I am asking about that now. Frankly in all fairness they need to count as the volume and not as 1. Its just not right that you can store 7500 items in backpacks at Business IV..that has to change.
Well Doc with the added vendors tis wont be a huge issue for me, But B4 they push through the packs counting as seperate items istead of 1 they really need to fix the storage issues that are already in play (they probably should have done so B4 this all started, but that just my opinion).
And thx to you, TH and especially MIKE for actually going the extra mile.
And those of you who want to complain about losing a skill you chose to drop, In NO other profesion can you retain a skill once you drop it. You claim you need the points to use you PvP or PvE template well hopefully they will take be taking stacking out of the game shortly thats the whole reason you cant compete with PvPers and cant find groups to hunt with when everyone can solo everything in the game. Thier is a problem with combat yes I grant you but having to spend a few points to retain a vendor isnt one of them.
amh9876
Wed Aug 18, 2004 5:46 pm
#41
I guess the latest incarnation is better than what they started with, but Master Merchant is still marginalized.
If I get Management 4, I can put up 2750 items across 9 vendors.
If I want to spend 43 more skill points (3/4 of an entire skill tree) I get to store 1250 more items and 3 more vendors. So, for 25% of the class, I can get nearly 70% of the benefits.
Let's look at the non-Management trees:
Advertising - no real value here - the planetary map is so cluttered, there's little point in registering your vendor. I doubt this changes with the empty vendors dropping off (explained below)
Effeciency - Cheaper bazaar listing fee? Cheaper vendor maint? That's not going to matter to anyone given the paltry discount these 'skills' provide
Hiring - So you can pick your NPC vendor or give him clothes. Try to convince current Merchants this matters. You can create vendor after vendor until you get what you like.
In addition, what's keeping someone from grinding to Business 4 (ooh, that'll take all of about 7 minutes), dropping their 2 vendors, adding their 250 items. Wait a day or two, get Novice Merchant, add 500 more items, and then dropping the whole mess? Once the 30 days is close to being up, you regrind Business 4, you've got waaaay more than the necessary 5k in Merchant xp, so you simply rebuy Novice, restock, drop, rinse repeat. Take it a step further and, depending on the xp-per-vendor they decide, you could buy a whole lot more than Novice Merchant each month and keep a thriving merchant business while being a merchant for as long as it takes to restock your ill-gotten vendors.
The other problem that isn't solved is that people will STILL use vendors for storage. Apply the scenario above and lo and behold, you've got someone storing 5000 items (50 items in 100 bags) that takes all of 5 minutes a month to maintain.
I still think the RIGHT answer needs to spread the additional items across ALL the skill boxes in Merchant. I still think there needs to be a way to prevent people from storing items on vendors. I still think those without the skills to have a vendor should lose that vendor and anything on it the moment the skills are dropped.
This is simply a capitulation to the people who don't want to make the decisions necessary to be a successful merchant. I want to be a Fencer, Pistoleer, BH, Rifleman, and Doctor. However, I simply can't due to the skill points required. Those wanting to sell mass quantites of items should have to make the same decisions as I do.
And, yes, I'm a Master Merchant.
Aeja
Wed Aug 18, 2004 6:24 pm
#42
amh9876 wrote:
In addition, what's keeping someone from grinding to Business 4 (ooh, that'll take all of about 7 minutes), dropping their 2 vendors, adding their 250 items. Wait a day or two, get Novice Merchant, add 500 more items, and then dropping the whole mess? Once the 30 days is close to being up, you regrind Business 4, you've got waaaay more than the necessary 5k in Merchant xp, so you simply rebuy Novice, restock, drop, rinse repeat. Take it a step further and, depending on the xp-per-vendor they decide, you could buy a whole lot more than Novice Merchant each month and keep a thriving merchant business while being a merchant for as long as it takes to restock your ill-gotten vendors.
Yeah people can still do that I dont know how many will actually still do that though. or do it month after month. If everyone is willing to do that then oh well more power to them.
The other problem that isn't solved is that people will STILL use vendors for storage. Apply the scenario above and lo and behold, you've got someone storing 5000 items (50 items in 100 bags) that takes all of 5 minutes a month to maintain.
Again I dont recall the DEVs saying it was a problem. Last word Ive heard was using vendors for storage was an acceptable workaround untill they fix the known storage issue and that is was actually better than setting up multable houses. Now this is my personal opinion as for these changes isnt the fact that their is a present database "shortage" its a means of placing some sort of hard cap so they can forcast how much space will be used and give them a "worst case scenirio"). Hard ware is dirt cheap now but they simply needed a limit and a way to try and forcast for JTL influx of accts through the sales.
I still think the RIGHT answer needs to spread the additional items across ALL the skill boxes in Merchant. I still think there needs to be a way to prevent people from storing items on vendors. I still think those without the skills to have a vendor should lose that vendor and anything on it the moment the skills are dropped.
I could live with spreading the boxes around. As to you thinking people shouldnt be able to use items for storage? I really dont know why this is such an issue with people the DEVs dont mind its easier on the system than placing 5 houses. Not saying your the only their seems to be alot of hate about this issue.
This is simply a capitulation to the people who don't want to make the decisions necessary to be a successful merchant. I want to be a Fencer, Pistoleer, BH, Rifleman, and Doctor. However, I simply can't due to the skill points required. Those wanting to sell mass quantites of items should have to make the same decisions as I do.
Well not 100% sure what this is meant to point out. Only thing I can think of is what was mentioned earlier about distributing vendors and aditional items throughout the entire tree. If so ok I could live with that as well i guess. Perhaps a better use of the skill trees would be some meaningfull options like being able to place vendors for other people like the vendor class was intended to do for those who didnt wish to spend the points to get a vendor but I kinda see your point if thats the point you were trying to make.
And, yes, I'm a Master Merchant.
Izit_Dedyet
Wed Aug 18, 2004 9:56 pm
#43
amh9876 wrote:
If I get Management 4, I can put up 2750 items across 9 vendors.
I still think the RIGHT answer needs to spread the additional items across ALL the skill boxes in Merchant.
Nah - I don't think so.Most other professions allow you to 'dabble' (I had just novice pistoleer for a very long time and was still able to kill stuff with a pistol, 0013 swordsman kicks some, 4000 TKA - is this the most useful line of skills in the game? -, etc...)
My crafting char has Master Artisan, Master WS, Smuggler 0400 and Merchant 3004 (and exactly zero Skill points left).Spreading the item count across merchant in a CH type nerf would be a real kick in the teeth for me. And I imagine for others too. Not everyone wants or needs to be a master merchant.
I put 3004 on my crafter so that my vendors were legal and my place on the planetory map was legal... If I then had to have master merchant for the skills to mean anything (ala WS or AS) then I would've been a little peed off tbh.
I think that the Dev team have actually got it about right, it rewards people with the dedication to have master and maintain it, but it isn't a total kick in the teeth for those of us that mearly 'dabble' in the profession either.
/cheer the Devs (for once)
/cheer DocSavage
/cheer all the happy joy joy feelings in the merchant forum for once!
yay
amh9876
Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:32 pm
#44
Izit_Dedyet wrote:
amh9876 wrote:
If I get Management 4, I can put up 2750 items across 9 vendors.
I still think the RIGHT answer needs to spread the additional items across ALL the skill boxes in Merchant.
Nah - I don't think so.Most other professions allow you to 'dabble' (I had just novice pistoleer for a very long time and was still able to kill stuff with a pistol, 0013 swordsman kicks some, 4000 TKA - is this the most useful line of skills in the game? -, etc...)
Are you nearly 70% as effective as a TKM? Not even close - you're not even 10% as effective as a TK Master with just 4000.
My crafting char has Master Artisan, Master WS, Smuggler 0400 and Merchant 3004 (and exactly zero Skill points left).Spreading the item count across merchant in a CH type nerf would be a real kick in the teeth for me. And I imagine for others too. Not everyone wants or needs to be a master merchant.
And I leave room for the fact that not everyone wants to spend the skill points on Master Merchant. Can you be a massively effective WS with 1 line? Nope. I bet if this discussion was to give 70% of the WS benefits in a single line, you'd be complaining that you'll be losing much more business to the "25% smiths". No one has to buy any skill, but there is no reason you should be nearly as effective as a Master in ANY profession with a single line of boxes.
I put 3004 on my crafter so that my vendors were legal and my place on the planetory map was legal... If I then had to have master merchant for the skills to mean anything (ala WS or AS) then I would've been a little peed off tbh.
And I'm irritated that I can't be every profession I want to be, but that's the rules of the game - each of us has to make choices as to how we want to build our character. That means we can't be the most effective in a given profession if we don't want to invest the points in it. And I do appreciate the skill points you've spent to have your vendors legally.
I think that the Dev team have actually got it about right, it rewards people with the dedication to have master and maintain it, but it isn't a total kick in the teeth for those of us that mearly 'dabble' in the profession either.
I'm all for dabbling. I just hold that you shouldn't be anywhere close to as effective in a profession with 1 line as someone who spends the extra points to master it.
/cheer the Devs (for once)
/cheer DocSavage
/cheer all the happy joy joy feelings in the merchant forum for once!
yay
Celendra
Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:10 am
#45
I am sopleased that the Merchant profession is finally being recognized as just that. A Retail Profession. Some of us enjoy creating THE BEST possible product for customers in many different professions. To do that requires an exorbant amount of resources, components and sub-components required to make those products. Im glad the discussions of how limitations on the different professions, was brought to the attention of the people who had the power to do something about it, as well as how not changing it would adversly effect several professions, not toexclude the server economy.
This increaseto 4kfor the Master Merchant is twice what I had expected it to be. This is enough to make it worth while to keep strivingto do my best in the profession of Master Droid Engineer & Artisan as well as Merchant. Thank you to all for going that extra mile.
Celendra Isis 
*^*Celendra's Droid/Artisan Warehouse*^*
-4746 6911 Dantooine, New Mandalore
Bloodfin
Takkes
Thu Aug 19, 2004 12:30 am
#46
hmmmm
this is better than the original proposal and the first changes after that, but in the grand scheme it's still not super.
also, i'd just like to note that if items in packs get counted individually instead of the pack as one anytime in the furutre, I will be very angry. I have too many crates and resources to store in houses and need my vendors so I can keep my resources stroed and my business running
this is better than the original proposal and the first changes after that, but in the grand scheme it's still not super.
also, i'd just like to note that if items in packs get counted individually instead of the pack as one anytime in the furutre, I will be very angry. I have too many crates and resources to store in houses and need my vendors so I can keep my resources stroed and my business running
DemmonA
Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:17 am
#47
My my my! As a master artisan I get another vendor! This is so cool. I hate to be contacted on my home planet and tell potential customers that my vendor is on another planet. When this comes to be, I will have my vendor on Corellia and another in my hometown on Naboo.
Thank you Doc and Mike! This does retore some faith in the developement.
Bughunt
Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:23 am
#48
Thanks DocSavag for all your hard work.
This will work for me although, will have to thin out my inventory a little.
The additional vendors will allow me to place vendors onhigh traffic planets such as around theed or Bestine.
urah
Thu Aug 19, 2004 3:52 am
#49
It sounds like an SOE hardware problem...
...too...manny....can't....take...... *boom*
DazOfNite
Thu Aug 19, 2004 4:26 am
#50
I have no problem with the change if there is some time after the patch goes live to remove the items from the vendor. BTW, my goal as Master Chef was to make 200 crates of brandy. I have 2000 crates of alchol (actually a bit more), plus 200 crates of casks, etc, etc..(you get the idea).
Had the ability to not store on my vendor, I would never have tried this and would have done it another way. Had the patch gone in and my stuff deleted...you can see why I'd get upset. I'm sure others are in the same situation and would be equally as upset.
Like I said, I have no problem as long as I have time to figure out what to do with the stuff..and I"ll be done the brandy runs this week so I don't have to worry about it...now what to do with the 200 crates lol...
atimes
Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:56 am
#51
Mkappus wrote:
Interesting that some of the capacity is in efficiency and some is in management.
I am surprised that they didn't break it down so that:
1. Additional vendors were in management.
2. Additional items were in efficiency.
Not complaining, I can live with it the way it is. I am still shocked we went from 660 items max to 4000.
Now you know the power of constructive feedback. The devs are always reading even though they barely post they are always lurking.
atimes
Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:00 am
#52
Xconxors wrote:
To be a doc:
1) hunt meat for meds
2) harvest resources for meds
3) craft meds
4)sell meds
Doc is a profession that needs points for killing meat and crafting (lots of points to make meds).
The bad news is I don't have points left for a vendor. Please don't suggest that I work with a merchant. I don't play full-time, and would need to do soto make that happen.
The solution SOE intended with this nerf? Get another account.
Bad news guys- not gonna happen. Count me gone if I can't sell my wares proper.
Sell items on the bazaar. I've made a fortune selling stim B's on the bazaar in crates of 4 and 5