Merchant Archive

Actually.. Let us get this straight. The forum admin -- who is not a DEV -- said it was an 'exploit of sorts' -- which is different than saying it was an 'exploit'. One that she/he recommended against, but admitted it was NOT something that you could get banned for.

I have yet to see a DEV state this is an exploit. Saying it is an 'exploit of sorts' is far different than saying it is an exploit you will get banned for. It is using the system in a way that was unexpected by the original coders. Just like poison and disease and buffs go far beyond the expectations of the DEVs, just like some crafted weapons/armor go way beyond the expectations of the DEVs, etc. Could they all be called exploits? Yes, does that necessarily make them 'bad' exploits? No.

Now, with that cleared up once again, I will once again state that I do think vendor poaching should be fixed. But I don't think it is as important as fixing the profession overall.

Nor do I think it is wrong to clearly list the facts -- without biased opinion -- when someone asks a question. I do think that it is wrong to attack/bash, mislead, or flat out lie to fellow posters. Too bad that isn't the general opinion in the merchant forums -- where those things are fairly common if you don't post according to the small but loud minority.

And Balkstar, I can pick apart your posts and have you saying anything I wanted to. So just because someone says exploit in their post does not mean they are backing you up. Garva said it was an exploit of sorts. Big deal. There are many of those within the game. And we all know you used the bike exploit, so you really can't complain about anyone else using any type of exploit. If you are going to be such a pillar of morals, you might try eliminating the flames and attacks and applying your morals to all aspects of the game, not just the ones that fit your personal opinions. It makes you a hypocrite.

Also, TH from what I have seen, has NEVER said it was an exploit. The posts I was pointed to before said it was something that wasn't intended and was planned to be fixed. That is FAR different than an exploit, and holds far more weight in my opinion than anything a forums admin says. I respect Garva, but when it comes to coding and development issues, I wonder exactly how much weight her opinions hold.

As far as this game being skilled base, it is far from it. This is a skill point based game. Big difference. And like I have said before, there are costs and penalties to dropping merchant -- mainly the fact that you cannot place any new vendors and cannot make any changes to them -- which is significant.

What is silly, is that we could have avoided all this, yet again, if the vendor poaching preaching team had just let it go. They didn't need to respond to that player at all. I handled it, answered truthfully -- without bias -- and then they came in and turned it into another argument. I wonder what is going to influence that player more, my honest and straightforward answers, or the flaming attacks and lies? Sadly I think the attacks and lies will, and not in the direction the VPPT hopes. But that is just my opinion.

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p4Samwise wrote:

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Balkstar wrote:

Maybe not delete, but there has been presidence for locking threads like these out. Just ask Garva.

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That's just because they become flamefests - flamefests get locked on sight. "Exploit" threads always get deleted on sight.

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Nice try. You may want to read Garva's post again:

"This is going to be fixed, so I do not recommend doing it, and just because its not something people are being banned for it is still exploiting the system. Since this post is describing an exploit of sorts it will be closed."

http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=game_guides&message.id=130200

I guess they forgot to hit the erase button, huh?

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DingoBoi wrote:

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Athlon wrote:

I keep seeing people go on about how Merchant is the only profession where you keep the skills after you give up the profession. These people couldn't be more wrong. We couldn't be more right.

A Merchant's skill is being able to placevendors (and other stuff, but the placing of merchants is always the biggest issue). The vendor is the final product.Vendor is not a product like a weapon.. it is part of the skill(Can't agree there. Advertising is part of the skill, ability to place vendors is part of the skill, programming barker droids is part of the skill, equiping vendors with items is part of the skill, etc... Once the vendor is placed it is a product.)If you master weaponsmith, make a wack of great weapons then give it up do all your weapons disappear? If you master armorsmith, make a wack of great armor then give it up does all your armor disappear? Of course not. Your product stays. Doesn't make sense for it to go. You are right

Let's even look at a RL example. You start a company, run it a while, hire the people you need to do what you do, then some day you retire. Does the business go poof? I sure hope not, otherwise what am I doing it for. You pay people to run your business for you. Doesn't take a fancy education or important skills to write a check, and heck, you can pay people to do that for you too.Admitidly your business might not run as well without you personally overseeing the day to day operations but it still runs and many run well. This is a completely flawed analogy. You state it yourself when you say, "you pay people to run your business for you". merchant is more similar to 'manager' position than 'clerk' position. If you as 'manager' quit.. you would turn it over to another 'manager', not a 'clerk'. Meaning, you turn it over to another merchant, not the damn hired help. (More than Merchant being a 'manager' position it is an 'owner' position. Business owners often do have 'managers' to run their business for them and I can think of countless examples as I'm sure you can.)

If you drop Merchant skills then you lose the ability to make changes, updates, and many other useful things. That's the penalty for giving it up. The penalty is that you are free to use the bazaar for your continued sales... at least that is what is intended. (We all know the bazarr is useless with it's 25 items and 6k limit).

As mentioned earlier it does seem to me that those screaming exploit are small in number but loud in voice. They are screaming exploit every chance they can get and without even understanding why they are screaming it. Seems, you are the one who doesn't know what you are screaming about. We are very clear on our issues. And it is an exploit as PROVEN with reference to a dev post. (When did I scream? As for the dev post, well I'm gonna assume, in spite of the flaming I see from you constantly and more for the well thought out arguments you give,that you are an intelligent individual and as such you can't really believe the wishy-washy statements made are proof of DEV beliefs in that statement.)

I have two toons on two servers. One is a Combat Medic/Rifleman who likes to dabble in merchandising his meds and poisons. CM/Rifleman takes 247 points so obviously no room for merchant skills (it's bad enough I had to give up Surveying IV, my favorite skill in the game), poaching merchant as it's called was the only answer and to me a good answer. then you are exploiting scum. The game is meant to be limited in what you can do. If you want to be master in both those, then you can be merchant, if you want merchant, don't be masters in both of those.(So because I am a master in both those I should have no realistic way to market my products? No outlet forsales? I should make poisons for myself and maybe a few friends but not to much because I can't hold it all waiting for friends to pick it up? I should have some way to market my products CM/Doc are after allin part 'crafting' professions with useful products, but since they are not on theartisan branch getting merchants is prohibitivly costly in points.)My other toon is an Architect/DE who keeps merchant skills because as a pure crafter wants to be able to modify his vendors with demand and keep a nice shop running, giving up the skills would make him slow to respond to the market and potentially misleading to customers which is just bad for business.

Cpt. Omeda : Master Rifleman, Combat Medic

Efack Adate: Master Artisan, Architect, Droid Engineer

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Has anyone thought about what this will do to Architects? Removing the ability to keep vendors I expect will reduce the server vendor population to perhaps 20% of it's existing size (just a rough pick at a number and not really important if it's correct). There will be little need for many crafting types like docs and CMs to continue their craft for others thus

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Bamboozle wrote:

SWG Dev Mathematics:

If X > Y we fix the vendors to be merchant only. If X < Y we don't bother.

Where

X = estimated number of people who will open up secondary accounts to maintain their vendors after the fix.

Y = estimated number of people who will quit the game because they are tired of being pushed around.

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LOL. soooo true.

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DingoBoi wrote:

Vendor is not a product like a weapon.. it is part of the skill

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You are incorrect. A Vendor is the same as a Weapon in a combat profession. It's the Merchants weapon.

If I learn Novice Fencer I get to use a stun baton with full force.

If I unlearn it, I still get to usemy Stun Baton if I want- but not as well. It does not disappear.

As a crafter or combat player I can use any type crafting tool I want, but without the skills to experiment on structureswith 10 points, I can't make a BER14 fusion. Should I lose my Structure tool too when I unlearn Engineering 3?

Why should I lose a vendor if I unlearn that skill?

I don't get to modify it anymore. I can't alter my advertising. I can't even make it shut up anymore, without firing it.

Your ideas of 'Poaching' as you call it are seriosuly flawed. The game is designed so we can keep our tools. Skills help us use those tools more effectively. If we want to more effectively use our vendors, we keep our merchant skills, like you have.

Your time would be better spent thinking of ways to improve merchant rather than annoy the rest of us with your flawed arguments. It sounds like this is really destroying the game for you guys screaming Poacher, Poacher!! We are not harming you, the skills you are keeping are what is harming you. It is not our fault Merchant skills suck and have little reason to be kept. Talk to the devs about that.

Don't keep trying to take it out on people using vendors just like they might a weapon, with reduced features/damage.

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Bluude wrote:

I am a "poacher" and proud of it.

Good for you.

I only keep the skills I need to enjoy the game.

Therefore, as you dropped merchant skills they are not essential to your enjoyment of the game, they are additional.. Extra..

Without merchant skills I can be a master rifleman, master artisan, and master tailor. If I had to keep those useless boxes I would not enjoy the game as much and probably just quit.

You already have a vendor in Artisan, if you quit over a bug fix... /shrug ...Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

So as the above poster said. Quit getting upset over it and use it to your advantage while you can. They might fix it, they might not. But using the current mechanics to your advantage in a game like this is the smart thing to do.

Not good advice. I wouldn't like to climb up to the top of this profession again unless it was absoluetly necessary, gambling on if SOE will fix this is not something I would like to do in light of the information we already have on the subject. Dropping my skills... Is a no go.

Besides wouldn't you much rather see apatch that takes empty vendors off the map?

I know I would.

I would like to see that included in an update to our profession, as I would like to see the invested SP in this profession actually gain some weight.. The Current Merchant Issues list which Doc hason sticky is one which I am quite comfortable with and prepared to wait for.

#1 on the merchant issue list is fix Merchant SP Exploitation, #2 on the merchant issue list is fix Empty vendors appearing on the map.. They are pretty close together, but I can see why YOU favour one over the other.

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If you need additional support from a merchant with the invested skill points it should be part of the game, for you and the merchant, to find each other and work out a way to improve your buisness.. That is some of the fun in merchant, I have done it with a few other people and it makes me feel like my SP is worth the investment when I see my tents not only populated with my vendors, but my client too and their wares.. It makes for a better market area in a city aswell..

Imagine if every citizen in our city took your advice and ground out Merchant, we have at the moment 27 citizens.. So.. Each person has a total of 6 vendors to place in our guild hall when they reach the peak, thismakes us a mega mall,then they drop the skills. This would mean that we would have 162 vendors in our village...

I can see more than a few problems with this scenario, one being that with 63 invested SP to give me 6/162 vendors, everyone else has 0 invested SP and gets 6/162 vendors.

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Bluude wrote:

Besides wouldn't you much rather see apatch that takes empty vendors off the map?

I know I would.

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That is coming up before the fix for the skill points. Mostly because its easier. Look for it in the next month during the mini publishes before publish 10. Unless it gets bumped it should be in there soon.

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DocSavag wrote:

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Bluude wrote:

Besides wouldn't you much rather see apatch that takes empty vendors off the map?

I know I would.

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That is coming up before the fix for the skill points. Mostly because its easier. Look for it in the next month during the mini publishes before publish 10. Unless it gets bumped it should be in there soon.

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