Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchant Poll: Have Poachers hurt your business?
OckVofad wrote:
Im not trying to flame here but havent we complained abt this enough? The devs know of the problem and have stated that they are going to address it in a future patch.
Personally i cant wait to see what happens when all the flags disappear off the planetary map. HeHe.
/agree
Soon, only the true merchants shall remain 
/agree
Soon, only the true merchants shall remain
LOL. oh yes. 'true' merchants if you mean merchants on secondary accounts or merchants who only exist because they have to have merchant or business 3 to be able to sell their goods. get real. The portion of the people that really PLAY merchants is very very very small compared to the number of people that ARE merchants. And I am not even talking about poachers. I am talking about people who have skill points invested.
Anyone that thinks vendor poaching disappearing tomorrow is going to make merchants sooo much better, is living in a dream world, because guess what. The 'true' merchants, are going to be drowned by the secondary account merchants or the business 3 merchants who could care less about BEING a merchant. There is absolutely zero reason to BE a merchant in SWG. you place vendors -- which is what the majority of the tools focus on -- and then you spend the rest of your time playing a warehouse stocker because you have NOTHING else you can possibly do with your profession. Soooo special and cool. I mean wow. I want to master a utility profession so that I can stock my vendors. And maybe.. just maybe.. they will one day raise my pay to 5 bucks an hour!! whoo hoo!
DragonScout wrote:
Actually, I know all too well what being a merchant in SWG is. It is sad and depressing. A merchant in SWG is like being a warehouse stocker in RL. Without the growth potential. And any 'plans' for change are so burried under other stuff and the whines surrounding vendor poaching that the DEVs could care less.
Like DirthNader said, the chances of anything being done to truly fix this profession are next to none because once they get vendors 'fixed' -- if they ever bother -- the DEVs will just leave and forget about merchant. And that is sad.
But, I guess most of the 'real' merchants are content with being stock boys/girls. It is such a cool job too. I mean, I know if I considered myself a 'true' merchant, that is all I would want to do. stock vendors. It is so much better than just running an empire like Jabba the Hutt.
Do you have no imagination, or no concept of what makes a merchant?
The skills from the merchant profession are there to make selling things easier, the venders provide an always available sale point, the advetising skills allow you to tell the players out there about your store. But that is not all there is to being a merchant. You need to:
- Locate potential suppliers for all the types of goods you want to sell
- Negotiate deals with these suppliers
- Build a shop in a suitable location
- Decorate your shop
- Place Venders for the different goods you wish to sell
- Load stock onto the venders
- Advertise your shop and produce
- Take custom orders from clients
- Find crafters to produce these custom orders
- Actually spend time in your shop talking to customers
and so on, there is much more to being a merchant than loading goods onto venders.
lisasdarren wrote:
...But that is not all there is to being a merchant. You need to:
- Locate potential suppliers for all the types of goods you want to sell
- Negotiate deals with these suppliers
- Build a shop in a suitable location
- Decorate your shop
- Place Venders for the different goods you wish to sell
- Load stock onto the venders
- Advertise your shop and produce
- Take custom orders from clients
- Find crafters to produce these custom orders
- Actually spend time in your shop talking to customers
and so on, there is much more to being a merchant than loading goods onto venders.
I could do all of those with business III. After my experience on Ahazi dealing with armorsmiths who never seemed to have time for me, I went into the profession with the intent of actually being there for my customers. I negotiated a spot in the server's most booming commerce district, and share a tent with another crafter who I feel enhances my business. I do special orders, bulk orders, custom work. I talk them through their purchases to make sure they get the equipment that fits their needs. I deal with tailors, master artisans, and miners in my supply chain. I do alot more to advertise than registering my vendor and setting up a spambot (in fact, I refuse to set up a spambot).
As for all of the pretty vendor tools like uniforms, vendor types, and multiple vendors, my tent mate operates a hell of a business with a single bulky vendor. He likely outsells the other doc / merchants in the city who have multiple vendors all prettied up. I do millions of credits a day from a single well-stocked vendor. I can go through just about every line in the merhanct tree and tell you why learning them and using them does not make someone a merchant - as DragonScout is saying, it makes them a vendor manager and stockboy. Any merchant-like behavior exhibited by us is done outside of the confines of the actual merchant profession.
Some of you can't see beyond the complaints to the justified critisism of what the intent of the SWG merchant profession is. You're dismissing us as "trolls", when in fact what we're trying to do is help folks move past theflamingon skill poaching and open people's eyes up to the fact that there's a lot missing from the profession. Honestly, if the anti-poaching advocates spent as much time trying to truly improve the profession as they do screaming bloody murder over skill dropping vendors, the profession might get improved to the point where people would actually want to keep their merchant skills, instead of being forced into keeping them to sell their wares.
DirthNader wrote:
...
Some of you can't see beyond the complaints to the justified critisism of what the intent of the SWG merchant profession is. You're dismissing us as "trolls", when in fact what we're trying to do is help folks move past theflamingon skill poaching and open people's eyes up to the fact that there's a lot missing from the profession. Honestly, if the anti-poaching advocates spent as much time trying to truly improve the profession as they do screaming bloody murder over skill dropping vendors, the profession might get improved to the point where people would actually want to keep their merchant skills, instead of being forced into keeping them to sell their wares.
...
I think one of the reasons merchants are "screaming bloody murder" is that every day, there are x numberof "so-if-I-drop-my-merchant-skills-I-can-still-keep-and-use-my-vendor?" threads started. Add to that,posts titled "merchant is useless", or something similar, don't exactly promote efforts to "improve the profession". Obviously, merchants will reply to these posts, and you well know the kind of response they will generate. There have been manydiscussions on the subject lately, and both sides of the argument have been guilty of posts that may have gone too far.
Granted, there are many changes and fixes required, I don't think anyone is saying the profession is perfect or working as intended in all aspects, but honestly now...having others constantly put down the profession and try to make you look useless gets tiresome, even to the most reserved and patient person.
There, I've added my 2 cents.
DirthNader wrote:
I could do all of those with business III. After my experience on Ahazi dealing with armorsmiths who never seemed to have time for me, I went into the profession with the intent of actually being there for my customers. I negotiated a spot in the server's most booming commerce district, and share a tent with another crafter who I feel enhances my business. I do special orders, bulk orders, custom work. I talk them through their purchases to make sure they get the equipment that fits their needs. I deal with tailors, master artisans, and miners in my supply chain. I do alot more to advertise than registering my vendor and setting up a spambot (in fact, I refuse to set up a spambot).
As for all of the pretty vendor tools like uniforms, vendor types, and multiple vendors, my tent mate operates a hell of a business with a single bulky vendor. He likely outsells the other doc / merchants in the city who have multiple vendors all prettied up. I do millions of credits a day from a single well-stocked vendor. I can go through just about every line in the merhanct tree and tell you why learning them and using them does not make someone a merchant - as DragonScout is saying, it makes them a vendor manager and stockboy. Any merchant-like behavior exhibited by us is done outside of the confines of the actual merchant profession.
Some of you can't see beyond the complaints to the justified critisism of what the intent of the SWG merchant profession is. You're dismissing us as "trolls", when in fact what we're trying to do is help folks move past theflamingon skill poaching and open people's eyes up to the fact that there's a lot missing from the profession. Honestly, if the anti-poaching advocates spent as much time trying to truly improve the profession as they do screaming bloody murder over skill dropping vendors, the profession might get improved to the point where people would actually want to keep their merchant skills, instead of being forced into keeping them to sell their wares.
DirthNader wrote:
I could do all of those with business III. After my experience on Ahazi dealing with armorsmiths who never seemed to have time for me, I went into the profession with the intent of actually being there for my customers. I negotiated a spot in the server's most booming commerce district, and share a tent with another crafter who I feel enhances my business. I do special orders, bulk orders, custom work. I talk them through their purchases to make sure they get the equipment that fits their needs. I deal with tailors, master artisans, and miners in my supply chain. I do alot more to advertise than registering my vendor and setting up a spambot (in fact, I refuse to set up a spambot).
As for all of the pretty vendor tools like uniforms, vendor types, and multiple vendors, my tent mate operates a hell of a business with a single bulky vendor. He likely outsells the other doc / merchants in the city who have multiple vendors all prettied up. I do millions of credits a day from a single well-stocked vendor. I can go through just about every line in the merhanct tree and tell you why learning them and using them does not make someone a merchant - as DragonScout is saying, it makes them a vendor manager and stockboy. Any merchant-like behavior exhibited by us is done outside of the confines of the actual merchant profession.
Some of you can't see beyond the complaints to the justified critisism of what the intent of the SWG merchant profession is. You're dismissing us as "trolls", when in fact what we're trying to do is help folks move past theflamingon skill poaching and open people's eyes up to the fact that there's a lot missing from the profession. Honestly, if the anti-poaching advocates spent as much time trying to truly improve the profession as they do screaming bloody murder over skill dropping vendors, the profession might get improved to the point where people would actually want to keep their merchant skills, instead of being forced into keeping them to sell their wares.
Since when have we ever called the work you have done in your buisness Troll-like? What we have issue is that you are saying that those of us that are fighting to make this profession truely viable are wasting our time. Personally it is very admirable that you have created such a thriving business leagally with a minimal use of skill points in the Merchant or Buinsessprofession. It's akin to going out and slaying high level mobs as a Novice Pistoleer when compared to doing it asa Master Pistoleer. You have spent an extreme amount of time carving your nitch in the economy without the use of such tools as a Barking droid or a Global Map Advertising. Now think of having that capacity added to your efforts. You may think it may not be much, but I wouldn't overlook the potential market that could be gained from that.
The profession has been decapitated by players that have either holohunted vendors to death then let them rot empty, or players that feel that the tools of the profession should be given to them for free, nevermind the vndors have actual value to them that they don't wish to use skill points on. I don't believe new ideas are needed at this timeon making the profession better outside of the skills that have been provided. Instead, I'd be willing to see how the profession would get along with the tools remaining under the exclusive usage of members of the profession, and going from there. If it turns out that Merchants still aren't getting a fair shake for their skill points, we can deal with it at a later time. Sometimes baby steps are needed to solve issues.
Balkstar wrote:
...If it turns out that Merchants still aren't getting a fair shake for their skill points, we can deal with it at a later time. Sometimes baby steps are needed to solve issues.
I can definately agree with that. I do apologize if it seems like I'm saying the profession is useless - I'm sure it has its perks, but as someone who spent some time as a master I just didn't see them as worth it.
I'm still 3/0/0/0 just for registered vendors, but beyond that I couldn't find anything that couldn't be replaced by organization and quality service. That to me is what the real problem with merchant is, one that is exclusive to our profession. Only master armorsmiths can make composite. Only master weaponsmiths can make T21's. Only master artisans can make vehicles, and so on and so forth. There's really nothing at master merchant (or IMHO, any level beyond 3/0/0/0) that can't be circumvented not by exploiting the system, but merely by putting a little bit of thought into things.
What is really sad is this fix should have been done very early on. Based on their comments it is clearly not the devs intent to have merchants drop their skills and keep vendors.
It should have been done in the August/October time frame when Item counts started to go up so dramatically. If it had this realease could have been something reall useful like a consignment selling process.
Like DirthNader said, the chances of anything being done to truly fix this profession are next to none because once they get vendors 'fixed' -- if they ever bother -- the DEVs will just leave and forget about merchant. And that is sad.
But, I guess most of the 'real' merchants are content with being stock boys/girls. It is such a cool job too. I mean, I know if I considered myself a 'true' merchant, that is all I would want to do. stock vendors. It is so much better than just running an empire like Jabba the Hutt.
And getting rid of vendor poaching is not going to make merchant as a profession viable. It will just make it all that much more obvious how limited and centered around stocking vendors it is. And at that point, people are going to stop complaining and forget about it and any true design fixes that should/could have been done, are going to get lost in more important things for the overall game.
You guys keep arguing that your place is just to stock vendors, well, the devs will find a way to give you that and then ignore you because you are a very small portion of the population. People will get secondary accounts for their merchants, or just business 3, and a very small few will be 'true' merchants and they will be lost in the wayside because instead of complaining about what matters in the grand scheme of things -- namely making Merchant into something you can actually DO things with besides stocking vendors -- you guys only complain about vendor poaching and how it is sooooo destroying the profession -- like the lack of skills/abilities isn't what really is the root of the problem.
Perhaps you have posts with other ideas for improving it, but from what I can see on the first few pages, they are few and far between, and I think more have been brought up since these arguments have started than in a long time. But you guys go on... keep your heads buried in the sand. I will keep kicking you in the butt to try to knock some sense into ya.