Merchant Archive

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Madsapper wrote:

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Barris wrote:

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Mor-Dan wrote:

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Barris wrote:

Uhh, actually I did master merchant at one time.

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mastering merchant during the jedi grind doesn't count


you are over your head in this discussion, and i will not use my time to post the 15 reasons that it is in exploit that popped in my head when i read your statement, let alone if i were to actually sit here and think about it for a second.

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Wasn't during jedi grind...

I fail to see how putting items for sale is an exploit. It's like saying that putting something on the bazaar is an exploit. Only difference between a vender and the bazaar is, one, you have to pay to keep your venders working, two you get to sell much more for a much more realistic price.

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The bazaar is there for everyone to use. The price cap is low for a reason. If it was the same as what a merchant can price items for, there would be very few merchants.

As for comparing vendor skills to commando skills, yea anyone can equip any weapon they get their hands on but they can't use it effectively. The only problem I see with this comparision is the fact that you have to train a skill that allows you tohavea vendor before you can actually have one. Common sense should kick in and tell you that if you couldn't have a vendor, AT ALL, before you trained in the skill, you shouldn't have a vendor after you drop the skill. Apples and oranges.

Message Edited by Madsapper on 08-07-2004 09:21 PM

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Madsapper wrote:

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Barris wrote:

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Mor-Dan wrote:

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Barris wrote:

Uhh, actually I did master merchant at one time.

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mastering merchant during the jedi grind doesn't count


you are over your head in this discussion, and i will not use my time to post the 15 reasons that it is in exploit that popped in my head when i read your statement, let alone if i were to actually sit here and think about it for a second.

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Wasn't during jedi grind...

I fail to see how putting items for sale is an exploit. It's like saying that putting something on the bazaar is an exploit. Only difference between a vender and the bazaar is, one, you have to pay to keep your venders working, two you get to sell much more for a much more realistic price.

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The bazaar is there for everyone to use. The price cap is low for a reason. If it was the same as what a merchant can price items for, there would be very few merchants.

As for comparing vendor skills to commando skills, yea anyone can equip any weapon they get their hands on but they can't use it effectively. The only problem I see with this comparision is the fact that you have to train a skill that allows you tohavea vendor before you can actually have one. Common sense should kick in and tell you that if you couldn't have a vendor, AT ALL, before you trained in the skill, you shouldn't have a vendor after you drop the skill. Apples and oranges.

Message Edited by Madsapper on 08-07-2004 09:21 PM

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But Merchant is a completely different kettle of fish though, you can't sit and grind it like any other professions, you have to wait for the xp to go up per hour per vendor, and hope that someone will pass by and have a look at your vendor for a bit more xp, I started Merchant about one and half months ago, with one of my chars, and even doing the management line to get more vendors to get xp faster, and even using my other accounts to view the them periodically, and my friends viewing them, I am still only 3 0 0 4 with Merchant. When I did Commando, it only took 2 days to master that.

Merchant is a chore to get, and a bigger chore to get back again, as I'm sure its way slower the 2nd time round than the first time.

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Barris wrote:

I don't consider this a bug... It's like when you give up creature handler, the extra pets left over in your data pad being called a bug. It's really not. If keeping venders after giving up merchant, but still having to pay for them is a bug, then so is keeping pets in your data pad after you give up ch... It's not a bug...

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Think what you want, TH has said vendor management is not working as intended, and will be addressed.

i.e. not working as intended = coding bug

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Super_nice_jedi wrote:

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Madsapper wrote:

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Barris wrote:

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Mor-Dan wrote:

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Barris wrote:

Uhh, actually I did master merchant at one time.

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mastering merchant during the jedi grind doesn't count


you are over your head in this discussion, and i will not use my time to post the 15 reasons that it is in exploit that popped in my head when i read your statement, let alone if i were to actually sit here and think about it for a second.

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Wasn't during jedi grind...

I fail to see how putting items for sale is an exploit. It's like saying that putting something on the bazaar is an exploit. Only difference between a vender and the bazaar is, one, you have to pay to keep your venders working, two you get to sell much more for a much more realistic price.

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The bazaar is there for everyone to use. The price cap is low for a reason. If it was the same as what a merchant can price items for, there would be very few merchants.

As for comparing vendor skills to commando skills, yea anyone can equip any weapon they get their hands on but they can't use it effectively. The only problem I see with this comparision is the fact that you have to train a skill that allows you tohavea vendor before you can actually have one. Common sense should kick in and tell you that if you couldn't have a vendor, AT ALL, before you trained in the skill, you shouldn't have a vendor after you drop the skill. Apples and oranges.

Message Edited by Madsapper on 08-07-2004 09:21 PM

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But Merchant is a completely different kettle of fish though, you can't sit and grind it like any other professions, you have to wait for the xp to go up per hour per vendor, and hope that someone will pass by and have a look at your vendor for a bit more xp, I started Merchant about one and half months ago, with one of my chars, and even doing the management line to get more vendors to get xp faster, and even using my other accounts to view the them periodically, and my friends viewing them, I am still only 3 0 0 4 with Merchant. When I did Commando, it only took 2 days to master that.

Merchant is a chore to get, and a bigger chore to get back again, as I'm sure its way slower the 2nd time round than the first time.

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Did you miss what's in red now the first time around?

Also, are you saying that you should be able to keep the vendors after you drop merchant because it took a long time to get and would take a long time to do again?!?

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Barris wrote:

I don't consider this a bug... It's like when you give up creature handler, the extra pets left over in your data pad being called a bug. It's really not. If keeping venders after giving up merchant, but still having to pay for them is a bug, then so is keeping pets in your data pad after you give up ch... It's not a bug...

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this is not a good analogy for this discussion. you may still have the pets in your pad, but if they are over CL10 you will not be able to call them out to use them whereas when you drop merchant, as long as your vendor stays where you placed it, its still fully functional, allowing you to store things for extra inventory, sell uber loot for mass amounts of credits, or resources to finance your personal agenda. this was never intended and is considered exploiting a flaw in the game.

merchant is the only profession in the game where if a player surrenders the skills, it can still use the main benefit to his advantage, which is just wrong, should have been fixed ages ago but we are talking about SOE here, with their track record being not very good heh.

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Kyreal wrote:

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Barris wrote:

I don't consider this a bug... It's like when you give up creature handler, the extra pets left over in your data pad being called a bug. It's really not. If keeping venders after giving up merchant, but still having to pay for them is a bug, then so is keeping pets in your data pad after you give up ch... It's not a bug...

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this is not a good analogy for this discussion. you may still have the pets in your pad, but if they are over CL10 you will not be able to call them out to use them whereas when you drop merchant, as long as your vendor stays where you placed it, its still fully functional, allowing you to store things for extra inventory, sell uber loot for mass amounts of credits, or resources to finance your personal agenda. this was never intended and is considered exploiting a flaw in the game.

merchant is the only profession in the game where if a player surrenders the skills, it can still use the main benefit to his advantage, which is just wrong, should have been fixed ages ago but we are talking about SOE here, with their track record being not very good heh.

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Barris wrote:

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LesterDaMol wrote:
Mastering Merchant for the holo-grind does not count. You were at the night-sisters or tusken fort while advertising your "Uberl337 kryat vender with holocrons and crystles for sale" vendor in a small Naboo house just outside of Theed. Just like most other holo-professioneers.

According to your logic:
I mastered Tailor, then I dropped it. I should be able to make master clothing with less colors.
I mastered Doctor, then I dropped it... I should be able to buff people, to a lesser extent.
Some of your logicis flawed:
I mastered Rifleman, then I dropped it. I can use a rifle just as well now, as I could before I picked up novice.

Explain to me what lesser degree is for Merchant.

All spelling errors in the Vendor name were intentional.

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I was never a holo grinder, thank you, nor do I have a jedi. My logic is fine actually. For combat, you master commando, give up master, go down to say just 0/0/1/0 (one box into the flame thrower tree), you still can use the flame thrower, but you can't use the same specials (like with giving up parts of merchant. You can give it up completely, but you can't use it effectively (and where as the main part of the vender, clothing, advertisement, all the benefits).

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Actually poor analogy yourself. LesterDaMol makes a good point but lets confine it to direct comparison of 2 trades, Merchant and Doctor.

As long as you are Master Doctor you can use any of the medicines and skills from Novice medic to Master Doctor. If you surrendered Doctor and kept Master Medic your cannot buff, yet using your logic in relation to Merchants, Master Medics that are Retired Master Doctors should be able to buff. That arguement wouldn't last 2 seconds on any forum, do you expect your arguement about non-merchants using vendors in direct competition with trained Merchants to fair any better?

Lose the trade lose the skill, operating vendors is a skill. Your free ride is over, time to pay up.

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Barris wrote:

When you give up merchant, you give up the SKILL TO PLACE THEM. Putting items on it is not a required skill.

It would be like saying being able to equipt a weapon after you have surrendered that profession is an exploit. The venders are the weapons, they can still be used, but not as well... Just like when you do give up skills. Even when you surrender say commando, you can still use their weapons, just not as effectively. Thus is the same for how merchant works now, and it has been working fine for how long?

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Madsapper wrote:

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Super_nice_jedi wrote:

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Madsapper wrote:

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Barris wrote:

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Mor-Dan wrote:

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Barris wrote:

Uhh, actually I did master merchant at one time.

---

mastering merchant during the jedi grind doesn't count


you are over your head in this discussion, and i will not use my time to post the 15 reasons that it is in exploit that popped in my head when i read your statement, let alone if i were to actually sit here and think about it for a second.

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Wasn't during jedi grind...

I fail to see how putting items for sale is an exploit. It's like saying that putting something on the bazaar is an exploit. Only difference between a vender and the bazaar is, one, you have to pay to keep your venders working, two you get to sell much more for a much more realistic price.

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The bazaar is there for everyone to use. The price cap is low for a reason. If it was the same as what a merchant can price items for, there would be very few merchants.

As for comparing vendor skills to commando skills, yea anyone can equip any weapon they get their hands on but they can't use it effectively. The only problem I see with this comparision is the fact that you have to train a skill that allows you tohavea vendor before you can actually have one. Common sense should kick in and tell you that if you couldn't have a vendor, AT ALL, before you trained in the skill, you shouldn't have a vendor after you drop the skill. Apples and oranges.

Message Edited by Madsapper on 08-07-2004 09:21 PM

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But Merchant is a completely different kettle of fish though, you can't sit and grind it like any other professions, you have to wait for the xp to go up per hour per vendor, and hope that someone will pass by and have a look at your vendor for a bit more xp, I started Merchant about one and half months ago, with one of my chars, and even doing the management line to get more vendors to get xp faster, and even using my other accounts to view the them periodically, and my friends viewing them, I am still only 3 0 0 4 with Merchant. When I did Commando, it only took 2 days to master that.

Merchant is a chore to get, and a bigger chore to get back again, as I'm sure its way slower the 2nd time round than the first time.

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Did you miss what's in red now the first time around?

Also, are you saying that you should be able to keep the vendors after you drop merchant because it took a long time to get and would take a long time to do again?!?

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Super_nice_jedi wrote:

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Madsapper wrote:

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Super_nice_jedi wrote:

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Madsapper wrote:

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Barris wrote:

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Mor-Dan wrote:

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Barris wrote:

Uhh, actually I did master merchant at one time.

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mastering merchant during the jedi grind doesn't count


you are over your head in this discussion, and i will not use my time to post the 15 reasons that it is in exploit that popped in my head when i read your statement, let alone if i were to actually sit here and think about it for a second.

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Wasn't during jedi grind...

I fail to see how putting items for sale is an exploit. It's like saying that putting something on the bazaar is an exploit. Only difference between a vender and the bazaar is, one, you have to pay to keep your venders working, two you get to sell much more for a much more realistic price.

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The bazaar is there for everyone to use. The price cap is low for a reason. If it was the same as what a merchant can price items for, there would be very few merchants.

As for comparing vendor skills to commando skills, yea anyone can equip any weapon they get their hands on but they can't use it effectively. The only problem I see with this comparision is the fact that you have to train a skill that allows you tohavea vendor before you can actually have one. Common sense should kick in and tell you that if you couldn't have a vendor, AT ALL, before you trained in the skill, you shouldn't have a vendor after you drop the skill. Apples and oranges.

Message Edited by Madsapper on 08-07-2004 09:21 PM

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But Merchant is a completely different kettle of fish though, you can't sit and grind it like any other professions, you have to wait for the xp to go up per hour per vendor, and hope that someone will pass by and have a look at your vendor for a bit more xp, I started Merchant about one and half months ago, with one of my chars, and even doing the management line to get more vendors to get xp faster, and even using my other accounts to view the them periodically, and my friends viewing them, I am still only 3 0 0 4 with Merchant. When I did Commando, it only took 2 days to master that.

Merchant is a chore to get, and a bigger chore to get back again, as I'm sure its way slower the 2nd time round than the first time.

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Did you miss what's in red now the first time around?

Also, are you saying that you should be able to keep the vendors after you drop merchant because it took a long time to get and would take a long time to do again?!?

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Don't understand what you mean by "Apples and Oranges" but I agree that if you drop Merchant you shouldn't be allowed to have or be able to operate vendors if you drop Merchant. BUT it should have been fixed when it was first discovered, now time has gone on, and people have accepted this exploit to be part of the game, and have spent hours, weeks, months and possibly a year, collecting resources, crafting items, and storing them all on the vendors, either to sell, or stock for later personal use, or stock to place on vendors to sale once current stock runs out. Now all in one swift movement, in a couple of weeks, everybodys hard earned spent time will go poof, and trying to operate in the extreme restricted manner that is proposed, everyone will now not be able to cope with it. This change is like going blind, or losing a limb, loads of things you like doing you will not be able to anymore. If this thing happened in real life most people probably would commit suicide over this, but its only a game so quitting is so easy.

This explot really doesn't compare to the likes of any other exploit in any of the other professions, should they exist. eg if you Master Merchant and able to ID people without timers, if you drop it, you should then be restricted to timers again, but if there was a bug, an exploit, which allowed you to not use timers even when doing the first box of ID from Entertainer, then if the devs come to fix it, its not excatly going to be a big deal, but with this Merchant revamp people are going to lose ahell of a lot of stuff as soon as this revamp goes through. Allthat time people spent collecting resources, crafting items, and putting them on the vendors will all go poof. Imagine if you spent the last year craeting your buisness and using this vendor exploit to do this, and you're really proud of what you have achieved, and able to sustain it in this manner, and really enjoying it, then all of a sudden its been removed, and all your time spent doing all this will be for nothing, and have nothing to show for it, as it all went poof! I know I would give up straight away, its just too disheartening to think about, and wouldn't have any more incentive to bother with the whole crafting/merchant malarky.

Yep, after this goes through, there will be no crafters selling stuff any more, as what they once were enjoying will be no more, then everyone else will follow, quit game, as there is nothing to buy to make them uber any more.

If this thing must go through, then the best thing to do is to migrate it slowly, give it a few more months, those who have even lost Artisan will have no time to redo Merchant, to save their vendors and all their items from going poof, in a couple of weeks. People need time to let this sink in, and try and come up with an alternative method of doing things. If this happens in publish 10 then thats not enough time, and people will quit for sure.

But going from Infinity storage to only 50 straight away, is just plain crazy.

I have nothing on my vendors yet, fortunately, I did have at one time, was having a hard job keeping it stocked then too, but slowly was getting by, then all of a sudden SOE announce the Jedi revamp, and hologrinding was coming to an end, so I put all my time in doing the hologrinding to make all the hologrinding efforts not to be a waste of time, and I neglected the shop and all stuff on vendors and lost everything, and I've got to tell you its not nice. Now after the hologrinding has finished, I'm now trying to rebuild my shop, and come back bigger and better than I was before, and been enjoying it so far, until I read about this Merchant revamp, which now grinds everything tohaltt. I had plans not to make one little shop, as before, but to make several scattered over different planets/cities, but now with the new Merchant revamp, can't do this, will just have to settle for one little shop, and have limited stock, no one wants to buy, as all stuff people want to buy, is stuck in a factory as there is no more room for it on vendor, so now I have to ask myself "Why bother with doing Merchant?". Its now not a viable option even for a Master Merchant.

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Should have said Master Image Designer

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mhal9000 wrote:

I hate to break it to everyone, but this subject has been beaten to death in these forums and there are dev quotes to back it up. You want to see them, use the search feature.

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