Merchant Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Galaxy-Wide Vendor Search
Ani_cul
Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:34 pm
#274
AND the thread is not closed, so lets get the brainstorming going and get some viable options up there before more naysayers start the 'screw em all put it in' posts
Bhasayate
Sun Feb 13, 2005 9:44 pm
#275
Ani_cul wrote:AND the thread is not closed, so lets get the brainstorming going and get some viable options up there before more naysayers start the 'screw em all put it in' posts
/agree
GraySeven
Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:17 pm
#276
Again, undercutting won't really happen. Too many people will buy up the cheap stuff and resell it, especially if its easy to do.
There is nothing wrong with this change.
DocSavag
Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:33 pm
#277
GraySeven wrote:Again, undercutting won't really happen. Too many people will buy up the cheap stuff and resell it, especially if its easy to do.There is nothing wrong with this change.
Undercutting already happens and it already affects the market. The shipwright market has drastically changed over the past few months because people are willing to sell it at lower costs. Putting all the prices on the galactic bazaar will affect pricing. How much and what the result of that will be is open to speculation.
I know a crafter on another galaxy who could afford to dump 4k harvesters on the market below cost. You could TRY to buy them up faster than he can post them to the bazaar but good luck. The logistics of going and getting them all would keep you pretty busy for a while. Meanwhile the price will get lower in the process. Others will drop their prices to try to compete..you'll have to buy them out too..there is a limit to your time and resources. You cannot buy out every single harvester in the galaxy to artifically inflate the price. That doesn't mean the price would be 0 or that the price would be below cost for everyone. The most likely scenario is that the people who mine their own resources would set the price. You would either have to mine your own to compete or find a way to get resources sellers to drastically lower their prices.
Toolboxx
Sun Feb 13, 2005 11:26 pm
#278
Posted this on chef fourms...same deal here tho....
-I think if the changes went though as proposed initally, it would KILL many crafters off, just kill them. The search should display vendor location, and what they have in stock with NO stats or prices. It would be great if they would even go to the extent to make it so the generic name shows up instead of what the crafter named the item. For example, i simply add "[MMM] Power" to the beginning of all food names, but some people list stats in the name. To make it so it doesnt list stats at all the generic name should show up.......[MMM] Power Halva vs Halva.
-Item delivery should not even be in question, this would make the point of a shop pointless. Might as well be able to run a shop from the bazaar at that point.
-Vendor-run auctions would be cool, but i think specific auction terminals at large npc cites and player run cities with a shuttport would be great. The starter of tha auction being able to set all rules, just like we do on fourms. And these auctions would be able to be viewed and bid on from ANY auction terminal. Tho for pick up the winner would have to report to the specific location where the item was originally listed.
-in terms of skill requirements, i think novice merchant should be able to display shop location and generic names of what is stocked for all to view from bazaars and other vendors galaxy wide.
-I think the system is better now than it would be with proposed changes, it would just kill off some crafters. Im not saying i would be affected by it, it might even boost my sales as i sell stuff pretty cheep with great stats. But overall it doesnt sound fair for the community. My above ideas are much better
Jutewr
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:14 am
#279
DocSavag wrote:
Let me toss out some ideas for you:
Would you accept this:
1. No Delivery.
2. No Viewing other Vendors from private vendors. Only bazaar terminals would allow global searching
3. The # of items that you could be listed on the bazaar globally is controlled by your advertising skills with Master Merchants able to advertise 100% of their items. Non merchants can only advertise the 25 slots they already have on the bazaar. Have to work out how this will work.
4. The Scope the listings to be determined by your Manage Vendors skill (it makes sense because of the next statement -->Business III would give you only Regional Coverage on the bazaar, Novice Merchant would give you Planet Coverage , and Management III would give you Galactic Coverage.
5. Items "Purchased" from the Bazaar show up in the FOR SALE tab along with all the other merchandise in a highlighted manner and only for the person who has purchased the item remotely. The price for the item is 0 since the item has already been purchased. They click buy and the item is retrieved or put into the available items bin if they have no room.
This concedes the pricing issue and I understand if that is still not acceptable to you. I just toss the ideas out as possible solutions. These are my own thoughts based on conversations I've read and had with other people and shouldn't be considered in any way official. I present these as a fellow player. You all have to decide if you want Elyssa to present something to the devs.
I think 1-4 are wonderful ideas, but I have to disagree on 5. I don't think that anyone should be able to purchase an item without going to the vendor to buy it. I really don't see someone coming just to pick up an item making any other purchases from my vendors. They will pick up the item and hurry back to the shuttle before it leaves.
As an add-on, I think it would be nice to have a "sorting filter" for each vendor. So if I'm using the bazaar terminal to find things, I can either search for the type of item I want, or I can look at each vendor one-by-one.
If implemented the way Doc proposed it (minus #5), I would completely support this change.
Novock
Mon Feb 14, 2005 1:18 am
#280
GreenLeaders wrote:
I posted this on the "galaxy wide search" thread, don't think it has been brought up here...
Anothering thing I just realized about this that I hate is the way it has turned crafters vs. fighters. These two "sides" (as they have become) were designed to help each other, the crafter provides the needed gear to fight, the fighter buys the gear he needs from the crafter. The fighter goes out and find item enhancing loot, fighter either sells it to crafter or has crafter use it to make fighter a more powerful item. The fighter makes money from missions(don't jump on my saying solo mission nerf, I know all about it)/looting/selling loot and buys crafters stuff to be able to adventure farther, higher.
What is needed is a improvement that does not hurt either side, as it stands, basicly this whole idea wrecks an economy that is unlike anything MMORPGs have ever seen. And hurts most crafters. An improvement is needed no doubt, but it needs to not be a destructive one.
Its unfortunate but even if the change got nixed completely damage here has already been done.
Anyword yet Elyssa have they responded to you at all?
Soggoth01
Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46 am
#281
I posted this on my galaxy forums but I wanted to know what people thought about it here:
What sucks about this is that the person who just happens to get their vendor listed first will get all the business.
I like some components of this change.
I would suggest a few things.
Make it possible to search planetary vendors and vendor stock from one location.
This planetary search option should only be available to master merchants only.
All purchases have to be done and retrieved at the vendor however.
Under this system shopping malls could still be a active thing. Lets say for example there is a mall with 10 vendors all of which are placed by one non master merchant. There is also 2 vendors in this mall placed by a master merchant. How would the other vendors get their product listed on the planetary vendor so people would know they are there. They would ask the master merchant to create a greetings vendors with one of everything they have listed. This would be the draw to the mall and at the same time give master merchants a role beyond being able to stpck more items.
Just some thoughts
This way the player still has the option of search and looking for the best prices/quality they can find which to me encourages a competitive market and still ecourages the placement of shopping malls since there still is a chance that the player will decided that they need something else while they are getting the stuff they wanted. .
Strongbow
Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:11 am
#282
I'm going to keep coming back to my idea of expanding the Planetary Map. The ability to post there comes from our Advertising skill.
Take the categories and subcategories that already exist on our Vendors, expand them by 2 levels to further break down by Item Type (Sword, Bracer, Backpack, etc using the 'Variation of' designator, not the sellers name for the item) and then Vendor name; put that tree on a new tab of the Planetary Map. The Vendor Name would also have numeric indicator showing how many of that item are currently in-stock and available (notsittingin the stock room). The Customer can then see the waypoint(s) on the map just like he does now.
This would have the added benefit of not limiting vendors to only listing in one category. If you have a loot item and a sword on the vendor, then your vendor would be listed under both of the appropriate categories (if you have the relevant skill in Advertising).
This solution can be leveraged with the systems that are already in the game, albiet there are some User Interface issues that would have to be addressed.
Not a perfect solution, no. But I think it is a place to start. Main thing is KISS, "Keep it Simple Stupid". Look at the tools that we already have and how they can be extended to meet the needs of everyone affected.
My main irritation is that the Dev's seem to like re-vamping entire systems just for the sake of re-vamping them. As a Systems Analyst, I know there are times you have to scratch a system completely and start over, but more times than not youtweak your existing systems and get the results you are looking for. Any time you decide to make fundamental change (like the original proposal) to a system, you had better understand the consequences of that change, forwards, backwards and upside-down.
Now if we could convince the Dev's to give us a simple Re-stock command at the same time, I would be a very happy camper.
rippleyaliens
Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:16 am
#283
Well comming form someone who has to go planet to planet, vendor to vendor, looking for stuff, this is a NICE addition. The remote delivery has to go, but the ability to atleast search out and find the product without going to EMPTY VENDORS< is a massive time saver. I understand people/crafters are gonna be pissed, and such, but then again, it is getting very hard to just want to travel just to find simple stuff like stims, and pups. I would atleast make this a master merchant skill, and have a charge for both merchant and customer to use this service. I hear of poeple worried about being undercut, when in reality, you are making over 50cu for each and every purchase, sans a hand full of items that are crafted.
With people quiting every day, it is hard to search 2-3 planets, just looking for chef products, good armor, weapons, and to even find a store with the stuff in stock is another issue. Makes it so that the people with merchant in their skill trees are reaping the benefits, versus someone with 0-0-3-0 artisian, or just novice merchant.
Rippley Aliens H4KD.
once again i dont agree with the remote delivery, but the ability to browse the vendors, to see if they even have anything on the vendor, is needed. Tired of paying a credit, driving for 5min, just to find vendor has a pack in it for 9999999999 credits.
GraySeven
Mon Feb 14, 2005 8:33 am
#284
Two of the biggest complaints still make no sense to me...
Impulse sales: This won't change if people are required to go to vendors AND if only NPC Bazaar vendors are allowed to be used to search. People will be forced to search for specific items simply because the sheer number of items listed will make it near impossible to just randomly browse around. When they come to the shop to pick things up, you may very well make more sales as they then look around in an easier fashion.
Undercutting: If I have the ability to browse for people selling way too cheaply, I can then buy and resell the "too cheap" items that interfere with my business. This will give me a larger stock with less work. It will be easier to buy undercut wares than manufacture. Of course, if someone sells low quality items cheaper, I'll let them go, as it only emphasises my quality.
Also, that near useless Premium Sale skill could be put to good use with this system....
DocSavag
Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:04 am
#285
GraySeven wrote:Two of the biggest complaints still make no sense to me...Impulse sales: This won't change if people are required to go to vendors AND if only NPC Bazaar vendors are allowed to be used to search. People will be forced to search for specific items simply because the sheer number of items listed will make it near impossible to just randomly browse around. When they come to the shop to pick things up, you may very well make more sales as they then look around in an easier fashion.Undercutting: If I have the ability to browse for people selling way too cheaply, I can then buy and resell the "too cheap" items that interfere with my business. This will give me a larger stock with less work. It will be easier to buy undercut wares than manufacture. Of course, if someone sells low quality items cheaper, I'll let them go, as it only emphasises my quality.Also, that near useless Premium Sale skill could be put to good use with this system....
Impulse sales won't go away. I do feel they will be affected though. If I am at a Bazaar and I know I need armor and I need weapons. I am going to search for both while I am there and make my purchases. If I show up at the Weapons Shop and they have armor its too bad because I've already made my purchases. I might look at it but even if I do the chance of purchase is low because I've already bought my armor. Impulse buys will still remain because they might not realize they wanted to look at housing or clothing when they bought their weapon. But there will be cases where they've already done their shopping. They MIGHT find both your armor and your weapons on the bazaar but the number of items that will be listed will make that very unlikely unless them take special care to find the same shops.
Crimsonsplat
Mon Feb 14, 2005 9:33 am
#286
Announced yesterday, the changes are not going to test. They have been "held internally" for further development.