Merchant Archive
Thread: Elyssa Please look Our Merchant Revamp Community Vision Document
- Expanded classifications for vendors. Merchants would be able to list their vendors on the planetary map in more defined categories. Example: Furniture, Structure Deeds, Crafting Components, etc. The current system often forces the Merchant to place a vendor in a category that isn't truly appropriate in order to place them on the map.
- Buyer can more easiliy browse for the specific types of vendors they seek.
- Would require more memory to store the information.
Elioi wrote:Ok, I understand that people get upset when the "Other" Merchants talk about getting an admin system for vendors - but how about this for those of us who had to take over for those merchants who used to be "exploiting". How about an Auto Transfer?Place a check box in the sell screen that says "Forward sale to object creator"That way the sale e-mail goes to the object creator along with the money from the sale, that way the crafter has no interaction with any of the vendor stuff so they don't "get their paws" on my oh so important invested skillpoints.Quite frankly I am getting tired of having to take one for the team to keep many of my guildmates in the crafting process. An Admin system would be ideal, but I understand that that is a no go here, so how about a little bone to help me keep my sanity?And for those who think "where will I get my cut from" some of us sell for our friends with no cut, and also remember that little word we merchants have been pushing on the crafters for over a year "just find someone you trust".
Elioi this sytem you design seems ideal to solve your problem. It doesn't seem very full featured or well rounded however because it ignores a lot of territory. What if I want to make a cut? What if the object being sold isn't being sold by the original creator? How does it allow me to track the business that I am doing in this fashion?
I fully support a consignment system that allows you to agree at the time of buying the item to return a percentage of the sale back to the person who sold it to you, however I do not support a system totally designed to give away merchant services at no cost. If you want to give them away fine but the system shouldn't be designed in such a way as to make it the standard practice.
As far as transfering vendors, like mentioned in the bad point, there might be issues with lag, also the problem comes up to if no one is near the new vendor and its not loaded there might be some sort of problem transfering the items.
As a solution for both, why not have the option of being able to transfer all items (hopefully prices and descriptions as well) to your inventory but count as a single item, say a data disk. Taking the items off the vendor in a rush shouldnt cause as much lag, when you get to the new vendor you would have the option of putting the disk in and say having it upload the new stock at say, 1 every 2 seconds, still takes a while transfering it but none of the constant clicking you would have to do if done in the current system as well as at least allowing you to go afk during the time or talk to friends during that period.
I proposed another implementation which I think would be more workable for specific consignment sales over here.
Specifically, your current proposed system would require merchants to front cash for consignments from second parties (the merchant would have to purchase the item, then relist it). A true consignment system where the merchant would not have to front cash to the seller would be superior in my opinion.
Those chosing to spend skillpoints on merchant need to be the only ones who are able to administrate a vendor.
Any functionality desired for "renting out" a vendor should be handled under the consignment system (and the system I proposed, linked in my above post, is built with that in mind).
MALLS
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I am 100% opposed to the proposed mall system because it lacks practicality.
As a current Master Merchant, there is no desire for me to place a mall and occupy three to six of my own personal lots to do so. Doing this means that I will be less able to get current resources of high quality. Any action that limits lots is not a favorable one. The only advantage these malls would have over PA halls which are currently used are that they would be viewable via the Ctrl-V map. That's not a very large advantage seeing as how most malls and major cities are well established at this point on every server.
Secondly, as a merchant looking to expand, what motivation is there for me to rent a store within the mall? If there are 10 stores and a 450 item count, that breaks down to 45 item count per vendor who rents if the mall is full. Not only that, but in the proposed system, it would cost the vendor renting an area one lot as well. Why would I, as a prospective expanding merchant, chose to lose a lot and only gain 45 item storage? Why not just place a merchant tent, which will allow a 75 item storage and has a smaller footprint (and can be easily placed near the mall or shuttleport)? Or, if storage is not an issue, why not just place a vendor in a PA hall which won't cost me a lot OR maintenance to maintain?
Also, only one week of advance maintenance could be paid for the mall. That would then require a merchant to visit his vendors area at least once that week or run the risk of losing everything that is on that vendor or stored in that area. What happens if someone goes on vacation? They run the risk of permanently losing their things because they are bound by this system. Either that or relocate, which is no easy thing either.
This mall system seems to be rife with disadvantages and I know as a merchant I would not participate because it has no advantage for me.
BILLBOARD ADVERTISING
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Obviously Coronet and Theed are going to be jam packed with people trying to get advertisements up. There would be months worth of names waitlisted if not longer. What insurance is there that by the time a merchant gets the advertisment up, there is still a vendor in that location?
Secondly, a fee of 100cr/hour works out to 16,800 credits per week. I do not think that this is a "hefty" fee at all and with the current economies on the servers, this price will not deter the poorer of merchants from using the service. I personally believe the fee should be more to the tune of 1500-2000cr/hour (252,000 - 336,000 credits weekly) to deter a backlog on advertising.
GALACTIC KIOSKS
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Is there any reason that John Q. Buyer would ever access the Galactic Kiosks? If the kiosks lists the planet, city, and vendor type, why wouldn't he just hit Ctrl-V? That way, he can see exactly what vendor is where (ie city and type) along with vendors that are not located in cities (such as the "suburban" vendors outside of Theed and Coronet). The only advantage the Kiosks would have is listing vendors on other planets and I'm not too sure that John Q. Buyer is going to hop planets to hit a vendor just because he saw it on a Kiosks.
Another point is that the game does not, in any way, recognize player cities. If you place a vendor in a player city it will be listed as located in (planet,planet). There would be no way for the person using this kiosk to know, for example, whether the vendor is outside of Bestine or whatever city is set up near the Krayt Graveyard or anywhere else on Tatooine.
Object Creator Sales System
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I'm actually rather torn on this issue because in my opinion, this is another method of giving merchant ability to those who are unwilling to invest the skillpoints.
Think about it. For a small fee (here, a percentage of sales), you are able to get your items advertised and sold in a vendor without having to maintain it or invest the skillpoints. The benefit of this system far outweighs the cost. With the sheer profit made on the three big ticket items (weapons, armor, structures), the percentage paid to the merchant would be a drop in the bucket compared to the work the merchant does with the managing of the items.
On the other hand, though, this will be a major way for merchants to make money IF they are fortunate enough to control the vendors of high traffic areas. The problem is for merchants who are not in high traffic areas or who don't fully understand or appreciate the market in SWG, this will be a cause of headache more than anything else.
Overall, I am very glad that there is a someone looking to revamp the merchant profession (although I'm sure there will be some things to come that I will not like, just like the last one), but there are just some things in this proposal that I have major issues with.
RamondChappell wrote:
There are quite a few things I would not agree to in this system. I will try to break them down accordingly.
MALLS
*****
I am 100% opposed to the proposed mall system because it lacks practicality.
As a current Master Merchant, there is no desire for me to place a mall and occupy three to six of my own personal lots to do so. Doing this means that I will be less able to get current resources of high quality. Any action that limits lots is not a favorable one. The only advantage these malls would have over PA halls which are currently used are that they would be viewable via the Ctrl-V map. That's not a very large advantage seeing as how most malls and major cities are well established at this point on every server.
Secondly, as a merchant looking to expand, what motivation is there for me to rent a store within the mall? If there are 10 stores and a 450 item count, that breaks down to 45 item count per vendor who rents if the mall is full. Not only that, but in the proposed system, it would cost the vendor renting an area one lot as well. Why would I, as a prospective expanding merchant, chose to lose a lot and only gain 45 item storage? Why not just place a merchant tent, which will allow a 75 item storage and has a smaller footprint (and can be easily placed near the mall or shuttleport)? Or, if storage is not an issue, why not just place a vendor in a PA hall which won't cost me a lot OR maintenance to maintain?
Also, only one week of advance maintenance could be paid for the mall. That would then require a merchant to visit his vendors area at least once that week or run the risk of losing everything that is on that vendor or stored in that area. What happens if someone goes on vacation? They run the risk of permanently losing their things because they are bound by this system. Either that or relocate, which is no easy thing either.
This mall system seems to be rife with disadvantages and I know as a merchant I would not participate because it has no advantage for me.
The mall proposal is more of an instrument to allow a wider variety for a merchant to be more self-sustained in the merchant profession as opposed to using it as a supplementary profession to a crafting skill. It is an idea proposed mostly for the use of non-merchants, as these would be the ones who would most benefit from the use of a mall. In this proposal, a rather than a merchant using their vendors for their own goods, they would be allowed to profit off of sales of other. Using a large mall, a merchant would still be able to place 2 of their own vendors in the main hub of the mall, and they could be selective in the sales of the other vendors by only allowing non competitive sellers to rent one of their other 10 vendors.
Many ppl have issues with placing a vendor in a PA or other currently used "mall" structure, as they are not able to manipulate their "displays" without the permission of the structure owner. Allowing the "shops" to be manipulated only by the individual shop owner would serve to remedy this problem. Other advantages over the current mall system would include the ctrl+v function, as you stated, along with the ability to pay for merchant services in its most raw form ... vendor accessability.
I understand the concern about the storage issue, which is easily solved by allowing the item storage for each "shop" to be increased to 75 items and the mall hub (manipulated only by the mall owner) to 250 items.
As for the one week advance maintenance issue, you would be allowed to pay a full 7 days maintenance, and then you would be allowed another 7 days before the use of the shop/vendor was revoked. Maybe implementing a system where if you own the vendor, the vendor would be placed in your inventory along with the sales intact, and if you are not the owner of the vendor the items would be placed in the form of a data disc which could then be downloaded into a future vendor. Not sure how to work around this, but I agree that no system would work if ppl lost items due to this service expiring. However, I believe that if a person leasing a store left the store unattended for 2 weeks, then they should take steps to ensure the safe storage of their items before hand and not take up space in the mall. Or maybe there could be an option for the merchant to "extend lease" at their descression which would automatically withdraw maintenance for the shop/vendor on a daily basis until the owner returned. This way if items were still on the vendor for sale, it would not just be waiting shop space .
I will open an alternate thread so we can have an open discussion amongst the community to fine tune this idea, as there are just as many merchants who support this as an addition to the profession, and I personally feel that this would add a very unique and interesting self-sustaining ability to the merchant profession.
BILLBOARD ADVERTISING
*********************
Obviously Coronet and Theed are going to be jam packed with people trying to get advertisements up. There would be months worth of names waitlisted if not longer. What insurance is there that by the time a merchant gets the advertisment up, there is still a vendor in that location?
Secondly, a fee of 100cr/hour works out to 16,800 credits per week. I do not think that this is a "hefty" fee at all and with the current economies on the servers, this price will not deter the poorer of merchants from using the service. I personally believe the fee should be more to the tune of 1500-2000cr/hour (252,000 - 336,000 credits weekly) to deter a backlog on advertising.
Im unsure if you noticed, but I did modify the billboars system as per another suggestion allowing it to be a rotating advertisment system rather than a waiting list system, which seems much more feesable. Please read the alternate rotating system proposal and see if this would better suit the proposal. I believe the rotating system would solve this concern.
I agree totally on the fee. I will make note of it in the document. Another thing to consider though is that this would be a M.Merch skill alone, which honestly, M.Merchs are not all that common.
GALACTIC KIOSKS
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Is there any reason that John Q. Buyer would ever access the Galactic Kiosks? If the kiosks lists the planet, city, and vendor type, why wouldn't he just hit Ctrl-V? That way, he can see exactly what vendor is where (ie city and type) along with vendors that are not located in cities (such as the "suburban" vendors outside of Theed and Coronet). The only advantage the Kiosks would have is listing vendors on other planets and I'm not too sure that John Q. Buyer is going to hop planets to hit a vendor just because he saw it on a Kiosks.
Another point is that the game does not, in any way, recognize player cities. If you place a vendor in a player city it will be listed as located in (planet,planet). There would be no way for the person using this kiosk to know, for example, whether the vendor is outside of Bestine or whatever city is set up near the Krayt Graveyard or anywhere else on Tatooine.
Say John Q. Buyer was looking for Bivoli and Brandy. The ctrl+v system currenly would get him to a list of vendors that may have misleading titles and only displays the vendors available on the planet of his current location. With a Galacitc Kiosk, Mr. Buyer could search a more specific vendor listing for vendors who cater to his needs using the "store description" function. Even though the system does not recognize player cities (which i obviously did not know) the kiosk could still be beneficial just by the use of the "store description" function alone.
Object Creator Sales System
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I'm actually rather torn on this issue because in my opinion, this is another method of giving merchant ability to those who are unwilling to invest the skillpoints.
Think about it. For a small fee (here, a percentage of sales), you are able to get your items advertised and sold in a vendor without having to maintain it or invest the skillpoints. The benefit of this system far outweighs the cost. With the sheer profit made on the three big ticket items (weapons, armor, structures), the percentage paid to the merchant would be a drop in the bucket compared to the work the merchant does with the managing of the items.
On the other hand, though, this will be a major way for merchants to make money IF they are fortunate enough to control the vendors of high traffic areas. The problem is for merchants who are not in high traffic areas or who don't fully understand or appreciate the market in SWG, this will be a cause of headache more than anything else.
Im going to look into the proposal by the previous reply to yours and see how it differs to mine, and maybe use that one, or alter mine according to the benefits/disadvantages of the two. I understand you being torn on this issue, but again, this is merely just a means to try and introduce more diversity in making merchant a more self-sustained profession.
Merchants do not currently have a reliable way of using the skill in a self-sustaining manner. Either you need to use it as a secondary profession to a crafting skill, as a buy/sell system where you buy and mark up product, to sell looted or personal items, or find people who trust you to be honest in your bookkeeping to allow you to sell items w/o perchasing them prior to sell and credit the party according to contract.
Allowing skills such as the mall proposal and the consinment shop would allow a merchant the ability to offer a service for profit, much as smugglers, doctors, and entertainers. Selling services rather than items, allowing those who do not have the ability through skill point investment the advantages of skills you have aquired.
Overall, I am very glad that there is a someone looking to revamp the merchant profession (although I'm sure there will be some things to come that I will not like, just like the last one), but there are just some things in this proposal that I have major issues with.
cosno wrote:
I think everything that you suggested is wonderful. Only one thing - the above could potentially allow a low skill merchant to exceed his max item count. I would suggest that vendor transfers be allowed between Master Merchant to Master Merchant...
LaurnaRose wrote:
Vendor Transfer System:
Only able to be used by a master merchant.
Any master merchant can /transferVendor to ANY other merchant (novice or higher) by targeting the vendor and typing the command /transferVendor [Player Name] or by manually entering the player's name in a transfer feild on the radial menu of the vendor.
Vendors may only be transfered to merchants who have the ability to hold the vendor and its items. For instance, if you tried to /transferVendor to a novice merchant who currently was capped on vendor count or item limit, you would receive the system message "[Player Name] is unable to properly operate Vendor: [Vendor Name]".
actually, if you read, this was one of the stipulations on the trade ... read the red writing. This would prevent the over max issue.
Borion_Sunrunner wrote:
I think the "second party sales system" aka a consignment system would be an important enhancement.
I proposed another implementation which I think would be more workable for specific consignment sales over here.
Specifically, your current proposed system would require merchants to front cash for consignments from second parties (the merchant would have to purchase the item, then relist it). A true consignment system where the merchant would not have to front cash to the seller would be superior in my opinion.
Okay, made a few modifications to your ideatryingand fine tune it a bit. Let me know.
Yes, you would have to take out your ad each and every week. That would require a pretty hands on merchant to keep the listing updated. Presumably those merchants would be the ones who are most likely to keep their wares stocked and up to date.