Merchant Archive

Thats right, now you may be getting it - Consider a CH with a Rancor that is trained to TRANSFER. The CH then forfeits levels of his profession and looses the ability to call this pet, although it still maintains the TRANSFER command.... why does that happen?

Well you maintain the TRANSFER command because of concept #1.

Concept #1: ****You only lose the ability to DO something, you dont lose what you have already DONE****

And you lose the ability to call the pet BECAUSE the ability to call pets is tied to a skill set that would be forfeited by untraining.

Which leads us to concept #2

Concept #2: ****You can only loose abilities that correspond to skill levels****

The ability to use a vendor is tied to no skill attribute that I can find at all. You never lose the ability to use your vendor when you untrain merchant skills because there is no such skill!!!!!! You DO lose the ability to place them, but thats it. So, if they are already placed... you can still use them.... why? Because there is no "use Vendor" skill to lose.

I wouldnt call this being a lawyer - I'd call it having the grey matter to understand very basic game concepts.

I cant quite pinpoint where the mental block is for some of you.... it "seems" like you wish the vendor skill was different than it is - that 'vendor use' was somehow tied to vendor placement. Thats fine, I am not sure I'd be opposed to that, but the fact remains that currently the game system is working exactly how it is described in the skill tree.

The skill clearly states "Each Rank in Management allows the Merchant to PLACE an additional vendor"

It doesnt say Maintain a vendor, it doesnt say Use a Vendor, it doesnt say Keep a Vendor..... it says PLACE. When you lose the skill, you lose the ability to place vendors... not the ability to use them.

At the very least it's amusing to watch some of you struggle with the concept.

*golf clap*

Perfectly worded NJ62.

I must say I never really looked at it this way. The skill is hirring....plain and simple. Not maintaining. Maybe people should look more into things before they yell bug/exploit. As soon as one JUST ONE of you merchants can show me, or point me to wear it says the ability the maintain a vendor, then i will say take them away. I honestly don't see the big deal anyhow. Who cares if people have vendors or not.....most are usually empty anyhow.

Interesting analogies ... allow me to cut and paste one of my own from a different thread:

2.The skills of 'hiring and placing' are not at ALL like crafting a suit of armor. As an armorsmith, your goal is to craft armor ... you do so and you have a tangible reward: the armor itself. The skills and skill mods you get along the way are all designed to make it easier for you to get that reward. Now you are right ... once you drop that skill, you get to still keep your reward ... that would only be fair. However, you are prevented from getting that reward in the same way again. Sure, you can get it by buying it, just not by crafting

Now let's look at it from the merchant point of view. The goal of the class is to SELL STUFF. The skills and skill mods along the way are all designed to facilitate that ... placing vendors, advertising, etc. The REWARD is the credits you get at the end of a sale. Now, if i give up merchant, do i have to return the credits? Certainly not ... that would be as silly as an armorsmith finding his armor had disappeared after giving up that class. However, i should be barred from making credits in the same way, just as an armorsmith who gives up the skill cant craft armor anymore. Sure, i could still sell stuff and make credits ... i just shouldnt be allowed to do it using skills that i had surrendered. It wouldnt be fair to have a former armorsmith be able to craft armor after giving up the skill, right?

Just my 2 credits worth.

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TheSorceress wrote:

Interesting analogies ... allow me to cut and paste one of my own from a different thread:

2.The skills of 'hiring and placing' are not at ALL like crafting a suit of armor. As an armorsmith, your goal is to craft armor ... you do so and you have a tangible reward: the armor itself. The skills and skill mods you get along the way are all designed to make it easier for you to get that reward. Now you are right ... once you drop that skill, you get to still keep your reward ... that would only be fair. However, you are prevented from getting that reward in the same way again. Sure, you can get it by buying it, just not by crafting

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Nope, a crafter can create a schematic, drop the class, and continue to use the schematic to make armor without being an armorsmith. It is identical to the merchant.

I stand corrected. ... Keep all the vendors you like.

I have some artisan trees to master, then drop. Schematic city, here i come

....and i would have to say (based on the skill tree and what Attikus has clarified for us) that a merchant's goal is to PLACE vendors (and tent) to sell itemsusing REDUCED VENDOR FEES and ADVERTISING.

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scruftydog wrote:

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TheSorceress wrote:

Interesting analogies ... allow me to cut and paste one of my own from a different thread:

2. The skills of 'hiring and placing' are not at ALL like crafting a suit of armor. As an armorsmith, your goal is to craft armor ... you do so and you have a tangible reward: the armor itself. The skills and skill mods you get along the way are all designed to make it easier for you to get that reward. Now you are right ... once you drop that skill, you get to still keep your reward ... that would only be fair. However, you are prevented from getting that reward in the same way again. Sure, you can get it by buying it, just not by crafting

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Nope, a crafter can create a schematic, drop the class, and continue to use the schematic to make armor without being an armorsmith. It is identical to the merchant.

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Schematics are also limited use. Vendors never disappear, so long as you pay their maintenance.

This used to be called Rule's Lawyering when I was a DM... using the semantics of the words to twist the intent of the rules. Someone didn't phrase the concept quite as well as intended, therefore we can all twist the game out of balance to our hearts content. You sound like someone saying the flametrhower should have a hand full of fire it throws, since it looks more like a "flamesprayer". Since Artisans can "Use Vendors and Place Vendors", it only makes sense that it is the number of vendors that the Merchant skill affects, not the ability to use them. Calling it "Use vendors" would leave the Artisans out of the skill description, as they can "use vendors" as well. Heck, a Carbineer can buy an item off a vendor, and that's "using" it too!

Here's a good test. Was anyone SURPRISED when they discovered they could drop the skills and not loose their six vendors? I was surprised when I heard it was true. Reason? We all know it wasn't supposed to work that way. Here's a question, then. If "using multiple vendors" wasn't supposed to be a Merchant ability, why isn't it available to everyone to begin with? Why was it originally limited to Merchants?

Theskills available to the Merchant are like Business skills in real life. Recordkeeping, Employee Benefit Programs, Stock Optioning, Facility Maintenance, all these things that take time and ability in real life, and therefore skill points in game.You don'tget to bethe CEO of Target while a full time big game hunter in Africa. Your business suffers, your employees quit, your stock falls, and you go out of business.

Stop twisting the words, it's pretty obvious why it wasn't called "use vendors". Everyone can do that. It's a foolish semantic argument.

As for the original post: 1. yes, the bazaar is a heap of low priced garbage. That's why we have Merchants. Artisans with Business 3 canoperate a vendor as well. 2. Paying salaries isnt' the only thing a shop owner does to run a vendor in rl, it's not all there would be to it in-game as well. 3. I had this lvl fifteen, 2200HAM Canoid Hunter pet I used to like a lot... but I don't want to spend the points on CH to keep him. WAH!!

How is this twisting words? I am taking them exactly as they are - word for word.

As far as I can tell, YOU are the one twisting the words my friend... I am taking them literally.

"The Management skill allows the Merchant to PLACE vendors" - Which word do you think I am twisting?

YOU are trying to give this skill meaning that isnt there, and YOU are the one that is attempting to 'guess' at what was intended and what was realy meant by the devs...

Dont you find it the least bit funny that the Skill just happens to work EXACTLY the way it is described in the skill tree? Hmmmmmm, maybe thats because it is working the way it is supposed to???? maybe?????

And speaking of semantics, your fication on the word "use" is nothing but semantics.... especially when my posts and several others were clearly using that word to describe a merchants ability to use a vendor, not a cutsomers ability to use it. That my friend is the VERY definition of word twisting and semantics - AND on top of it all, we used several other words to also make the point. You could easily substitute "Maintain Vendors" to destroy your argument against "use Vendors" and you are back to square one.

Another reason you whiners are all idiots:

By your exact logic any architect who places a large house should lose his houses if he drops architect cuz gosh, he can't build them any more.

**edit**ing morons

You people are completely retarded. By your exact logic anyone who drops master creature handler should still be able to call his webmaster and anyone who drops commando should still be able to flame single2 mobs to death. Dont you people realize how stupid you sound?

PS: Straun your the only **edit**ing dumbass moron here because houses and vendors have nothing in common.

Reading comprhension is really a lost art.

You either didnt read the whole thread, or simply lack the ability to understand some of the more basic concepts within.

Creature Handlers can not call creatures after they untrain certain levels of the proffesion because calling creatures is a specific skill granted by a specific skill mod. It's called 'Max level of Pets'.

You HAVE to have the appropriate level of that skill mod in order to call certain pets.

There is no such equivilent in Merchant. The skill mod called 'vendor' CLEARLY states "For each point of Manage vendor, a player may PLACE a vendor in a structure"

That is very important, let me state it yet again.

The skill mod called 'vendor' CLEARLY states "For each point of Manage vendor, a player may PLACE a vendor in a structure"

Place - thats the word used, thats the only word used. PLACE PLACE PLACE

So Placing vendors is what the skill mod grants.

Being able to use, to manage, to stock vendors is not a skill mod in this game. That skill mod does not exist. So it is not something you can lose. It is certainly not part of the Vendors skill mod, and I dont see it anywhere else.... do you?



I'll lay it out for you again.

PLACING vendors is the skill you gain from the Vendors skill mod. Its the only ability you gain, and is the only ability you can lose. When you lose the Vendor skill mod, you simply can not place any more vendors.... thats it.