Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchant CURB Idea
JiganSterling
Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:47 am
#14
jimbothefirst wrote:
Just as thought here but isnt there already a way for a non combat character to get faction points through a smuggler? Think interdependancy folks you sell your products and then use those credits to purchase faction points. The smuggler then uses the cash to buy armor and weapons to wear so he can live if jumped on while trading faction. Seems like it is working as intended already.
Just a thought
That is exactly right.
dlc3007
Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:05 pm
#15
IndySWG wrote:
... just pointing out that we are guilty of the same thing. Rather than flesh out a fuller solution that is a boon to the game as a whole we are given the "choice"to supportone or none smuggler-only-friendly options. Of course we choose the smuggler friendly option .. but that doesnt make it overall-game-scope friendly ... or complete ... or even ... that great of an idea.
I disagree. I did vote for option A and I'm not going to say that I don't see the advantage for smugglers in that option. However, that wasn't the reason I chose that. I voted for A because it is the only option that makes logical sense. Tell me that a vending machine selling crack and PCP makes sense. Tell me that a gun dealer setting up a store outside any city and selling illegally modified weapons makes sense.
Just because something happens to benifit me doesn't mean it isn't the 'right' option. I'd also like to have to run like hell when a bunch of troopers come marching through a cantina b/c they will bust me for the spice and slicing gear I have. I think most of us would like to have more risk associated with our profession. That certainly wouldn't "help" us, but it is also the right thing to do.
CorellianCowboy
Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:14 pm
#16
I have an idea.
How about a system where you can sell your stuff to other players for money, and then, later on, use that money to pay another player to give you faction points in the faction of your choice. Oh, and they could make it so that the player who gives you the faction points has to be a member of a profession that has some reason for having the kind of connections that it would take to bribe officials.
That'd be awesome!
How about a system where you can sell your stuff to other players for money, and then, later on, use that money to pay another player to give you faction points in the faction of your choice. Oh, and they could make it so that the player who gives you the faction points has to be a member of a profession that has some reason for having the kind of connections that it would take to bribe officials.
That'd be awesome!
CorellianCowboy
Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:16 pm
#17
I replied to the original thread... if a little sarcastically.
Vrond
Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:33 pm
#19
Wow. As hard as smugglers are getting smacked around this week you REALLY think its a good idea to try to take away one of the few things they have that works?
Ok how about this smugglers can get vendors back then.
RichardBryant
Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:52 pm
#20
Hey, yeah! What a plan! And then, right, how about letting armoursmiths slice armour? And how about letting weaponsmiths slice weapons? And Pistoleers can have Low Blow and Panic Shot since their specials are all borked! And everyone can learn lekku! And then, right if what if chefs could make spice? No, forget that last one, no-one wants spice since the Chef revamp anyway. And give Jedi back Feign Death, they were only using it fairly!
And congratulations. Your amazing plan has saved the devs from doing a Smuggler revamp since they now have no skills left at all. So they can just delete the profession.
Please, i don't really think you'd thought about this but it's not as if SOE needed too much excuse to kick smugglers in the balls again. They do it once per month anyway.
Please. Sell items, that's what you do. If you want to sell faction, learn the otherwise useless Underworld line.
And congratulations. Your amazing plan has saved the devs from doing a Smuggler revamp since they now have no skills left at all. So they can just delete the profession.
Please, i don't really think you'd thought about this but it's not as if SOE needed too much excuse to kick smugglers in the balls again. They do it once per month anyway.
Please. Sell items, that's what you do. If you want to sell faction, learn the otherwise useless Underworld line.
Abai
Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:37 pm
#21
I were just about to get off on this one but then I saw the replies. I think it's needless for me to repeat what has already been stated.
I just wonder if it's "kick the Smugglers week" All that is left of Smuggler is FP selling, Last Ditch and Low Blow. Now Merchants want to remove the first one from Smugglers. It's going to be interesting to see the next proposal.
Painstake
Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:51 pm
#22
I had no idea that so many smugglers would whine about this idea. I too have a master smuggler as an alt to do my own slicing for my weapons and armor. Not sure what galaxy you play on but finding a smuggler on Valcyn is pretty hard and then paying thier outrageous amounts for faction points is another thing. It seems that the merchants like my idea and the smuggler think I just kicked them between the legs, and in a way this would but it would give the casual player a way to take part in the GCW as well. OnValcyn the going rate is 2 mil per 10k faction and I know that I can not afford that right now especially with no one buying weapons and all being in space right now.It was just a thought to make the game more enjoyable to a wider range of people. I did notmean to pee in your collectivecereal.
Who knows maybe when the mythical smuggler revampgoes live and there are more smugglers the price of faction points will be reduced and something like this would not be needed.
Dimear
Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:58 pm
#23
When did smugglers get so pissy? Someone link this on their forum or something?
In truth, I didn't know that part of smuggler was to sell faction points. So if there's a system in place, fine...
In truth, I didn't know that part of smuggler was to sell faction points. So if there's a system in place, fine...
RichardBryant
Mon Feb 21, 2005 11:34 pm
#24
It cvosts us 10,000 credits for 125 FP. Delegating that cuts it down to about 100FP. I'm sure you can do the maths. You're a merchant, after all.
SmugglinZane
Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:35 am
#25
IndySWG wrote:
SmugglinZane wrote:
You know, this started last week and is going to continue to roll into something ugly. I'm though posting on threads like that made by shortsighted players who only care about making something benefit them regardless of how it effects others. I have no faith in the powers to listen to us while they continue to dismantle our profession. In other words, I see this change going in as part of a GCW revamp at the latest, but quite possibly as a part of their new desire to make changes to the GCW prior to the CURB.
This is exactly what our current poll concerning contraband on vendors does to the Merchant profession (and thusly to the Weaponsmith and Armorsmith professions).
Sure option A (which you voted for /duck)is great for us, but it has a larger impact that the larger smuggler community seems to be willing to ignore because it makes most sense and is most correct FOR SMUGGLERS.
... just pointing out that we are guilty of the same thing. Rather than flesh out a fuller solution that is a boon to the game as a whole we are given the "choice"to supportone or none smuggler-only-friendly options. Of course we choose the smuggler friendly option .. but that doesnt make it overall-game-scope friendly ... or complete ... or even ... that great of an idea.
I know what you're saying Indy. The funny thing is that as much as I would love contraband vendors (and even with a lot of justification), I have pulled my support for them. It's treading too much on the Merchant profession. That's the problem I see with their request.
I also see the contraband on vendor poll in a different light. I see the ability to deal in illegal goods as treading on our profession. In all seriousness, there needs to be another profession utilised in this. That's the "Crime Lord" proposal from the past. It provides the illegality aspect as well as another depth to this part of the game that it would be hard for anyone to object.
The funny thing is everyone was not supposed to be running around with sliced gear and spices but they continue to allow it to happen while they "fix" something that was not ever really mentioned as being quite so broken since launch.
I'm all for middle ground with the contraband on vendors issue, but having to make a choice, I choose A.
IndySWG
Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:58 am
#26
SmugglinZane wrote:
IndySWG wrote:
SmugglinZane wrote:
You know, this started last week and is going to continue to roll into something ugly. I'm though posting on threads like that made by shortsighted players who only care about making something benefit them regardless of how it effects others. I have no faith in the powers to listen to us while they continue to dismantle our profession. In other words, I see this change going in as part of a GCW revamp at the latest, but quite possibly as a part of their new desire to make changes to the GCW prior to the CURB.
This is exactly what our current poll concerning contraband on vendors does to the Merchant profession (and thusly to the Weaponsmith and Armorsmith professions).
Sure option A (which you voted for /duck)is great for us, but it has a larger impact that the larger smuggler community seems to be willing to ignore because it makes most sense and is most correct FOR SMUGGLERS.
... just pointing out that we are guilty of the same thing. Rather than flesh out a fuller solution that is a boon to the game as a whole we are given the "choice"to supportone or none smuggler-only-friendly options. Of course we choose the smuggler friendly option .. but that doesnt make it overall-game-scope friendly ... or complete ... or even ... that great of an idea.
I know what you're saying Indy. The funny thing is that as much as I would love contraband vendors (and even with a lot of justification), I have pulled my support for them. It's treading too much on the Merchant profession. That's the problem I see with their request. I have never been in favor of contra-band vendors. I think there are more inventive solutions that would be good for all professions involved and keep contrband movement smuggler-required ... it only requires that THAT be what we ask the DEVs for ... not some "if we cant do it nobody can" nurf request that will ultimately just put us back to square one "what are we gonna do about contraband on vendors".
I also see the contraband on vendor poll in a different light. I see the ability to deal in illegal goods as treading on our profession.
I agree, and this is aproblem that I would desperately like to fix. But asking for it to be fixed by simply removing an ability from another profession ... isn't really fixing the problem, it's just removing it. (Exactly what has now happened with FD). We should be asking for a solution to the problem that forces merchants to seek out smugglers and actually interact/play with themif they want to move contraband ... not just removing their ability to do so outright. Asking for a half-soltution by nurfing another profession is as we all should feel quite plainly today ... not the most forwrd thinking or inventive way to fix a problem.
In all seriousness, there needs to be another profession utilised in this. That's the "Crime Lord" proposal from the past. It provides the illegality aspect as well as another depth to this part of the game that it would be hard for anyone to object.
That is what I had hoped to accomplish (on a smaller scale) by the idea I offered. Yes, it needs some polish but at least its starting point is fixing the problem so that the involved professions work together in a star-warsy way and not just removing an ability outright (which will only inevitably cause screaming and moaning and a future rework to the rework to once again address the painful issue of "contraband on vendors").
The funny thing is everyone was not supposed to be running around with sliced gear and spices but they continue to allow it to happen while they "fix" something that was not ever really mentioned as being quite so broken since launch.
I'm all for middle ground with the contraband on vendors issue, but having to make a choice, I choose A.
This is my biggest issue right now ... why do we have to make a choice between these two? Why is everyone so against discussing reasonable solutions in that middle ground!? Why are we being told not to offer other options?! Why are powers-that-be SO AGAINST AT LEAST adding wording like "As step one in a larger solution" to this option A?
I'll repost my idea here since I feel it's on topic in regard to our opinions of Merchants and their roles that influence or effect the smuggler profession:
One idea I had (which I really like) to make dealing in contraband a profitable business for the smugglerwhileADDING value to the merchant treewas to let the smuggler operate an effective "turf".
"Oh you want...a modified weapon ... /whisper that's on the vendor in the back room."
The idea is that Merchants would have a new player listing option on their vendors called "associate" or something - where they could entera Smuggler's name.
If the Merchant had a Smuggler Associate listed, then the merchant would be able to stock sliced goods / contraband -- and the smuggler would get a kick back.
If the Merchant had a Smuggler Associate listed, then the merchant would be able to stock sliced goods / contraband -- and the smuggler would get a kick back.
This would allow the smugglers to build a small area of influence ... a kind of "protection" racket. And if aMerchant wanted to dabble in the black market ... he'd better get his blessing first.
Some Details to the idea:
- Merchants only be allowed to place contraband on a vendor if that vendor had an associated underworld contact ... a smuggler associate.
- Smugglers should be able to set their kick back level (say 1-5% of sale price) so that smugglers can compete in turf wars.
- There should be a modifier in the Smuggler tree that increases the number of vendors they can control in their turf at any given time.
- The ability to have a smuggler associate should be granted somewhere in the Merchant skill tree (not be a universal option on vendors ... artisan business 3 would not be skilled enough merchant to successfully deal on the black market)
This would be good because:
- Dealing in the underworld now pays.
- It gives the smuggler a needed / valuable role in the economy ... without causing balance issues or scanning lag issues...etc
- This lets the Merchants sell what they want ... but adds a feel of illegality to certain items. They need the expertise / connections of a smuggler associate to sell effectively on the black market.
- as a bonus it adds some value to a merchant box
I play a master merchant and a master smuggler ... and I want both to be a valuable profession. It's important that Merchants be able to stock their vendors as they see fit ...but it's totally reasonable toexpectdealing in illegal goods to have an added overhead or risk.
"Oh you want...a modified weapon ... /whisper that's on the vendor in the back room."
.....
I'm the first to admit it needs fleshed out a bit, but I think it'd be a really cool first step to letting the smugglers run their own little underworld organization.
My first posting of this idea included a "visibility" and punishment system for the merchants to make it more risky, but since we've pretty much been told that that sort of game mechanic is a long way off I've taken it out.
The goal of my idea wasto make some interplay with the two professions invovled. To make merchants seek out smugglers if they want to deal on the black market, to let smugglers off load their goods to shaddy merchants, to give smugglers a way to make money on the movement of contraband, rather than just remove the movement all together.
The above system could easily incorporate vendor scans / fines / etc if the DEVs were to add such things.
Merchants should expect to have to have some added overhead when dealing in the black market - they should need to pay a smuggler to move items on the black marget effectively. But finding a way to do this while ensuring thatcontraband is the smuggler's area of specialty while ADDING value and functionailty to any profession involved should be the goal.