Merchant Archive

Thread: Vendor Search V2

BruSwillis
Sun Mar 27, 2005 9:25 am
#14


*edited* cus Im really not that bothered to be honest


Message Edited by BruSwillis on 03-27-2005 08:51 AM




_____BruMasterUnderworldSmuggler.
___________Toth'raRebelBothanSpy.

DocSavag
Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:13 pm
#15

If the devs had wanted to build a working search that benefited consumers and merchants they could have. They were given plenty of ideas and information that would have made this search infinitely better than it is today.

In the end it appears to the outside observer that they simply chose the quickest and laziest implementation they could come up with. None of the features that would have made this search actually useful were implemented. Its difficult to know whether they were ever even considered because the communication from them on this feature was, to my knowledge, completely absent. It was slapped on to test center and there isn't a hint of any answer to the many questions that were raised about it or the many good suggestions on how to make it better.

The merchant community deserves better treatment. Frankly most of the professions in the game deserve better treatment. The changes being made at this time are, for the most part, reactionary in nature and not strategic in any conceivable way. Rapid change without a long term plan is a recipe for disaster. If there is a long term plan I've seen no evidence of it at all and there has been no communication about the current game's direction. To me its almost like the dev team thinks that the CU will solve all the ills of the game and if we are all just patient it will all work out. The problem is that the changes they are making today have serious ramifications for the enjoyment of the game for many professions and there is no way to undo the damage they are doing to may professions in this current climate of rapid kneejerk development. One should always pay attention to the exit polling data of their customers to improve their product but you cannot soley design your product around the desires of customers you no longer have. You will end up losing the current customers in the process. Sadly I am nearing the point of being one of those ex customers. I wonder if any of my exit polling data will be useful to them.



----------------------------------
Chataka Windae
Rifleman/Combat Medic
CEO, Windae Enterprises
Mesric Sanctuary Founder



bluejanus
Sun Mar 27, 2005 10:00 pm
#16






BruSwillis wrote:





Elyssa wrote:

That's why I'm encouraging everyone to:

1) List all of your vendors on the global search so that you don't operate a competitive disadvantage and

2) Wait a week or two for the newness to wear off and people to stop using it.







Working well for me as a buyer and a seller.
Yeah there's problems but it's still easier to use the search feature with its problems than hunting planets wading through empty or low stocked vendors. The planet advertising feature should be scrapped, it's the most pathetic waste of time for buyers.


I find it quite disparaging to read the Merchant Correspondant not wanting to work to make the system better but to rubbish it and encourage it's failure.


Quite sad really.





Not every profession is as resilient as weaponsmith. Architects are well into another set of price wars. Architects (since our products don't decay) have to seek out new customers. Imagine what it would be like if all your products from day one came with ADKs.






Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
Crimsonsplat
Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:21 am
#17






BruSwillis wrote:





Elyssa wrote:

That's why I'm encouraging everyone to:

1) List all of your vendors on the global search so that you don't operate a competitive disadvantage and

2) Wait a week or two for the newness to wear off and people to stop using it.







Working well for me as a buyer and a seller.
Yeah there's problems but it's still easier to use the search feature with its problems than hunting planets wading through empty or low stocked vendors. The planet advertising feature should be scrapped, it's the most pathetic waste of time for buyers.


I find it quite disparaging to read the Merchant Correspondant not wanting to work to make the system better but to rubbish it and encourage it's failure.


Quite sad really.







The merchant correspondent's job is to represent the MERCHANTS. As a group, not as individuals. And most of us hate this stupid, counterproductive, half-a$$ed, ill-considered, unbalancing, p.o.s. with a passion. The opinion of a crafter alt in sheeps clothing isn't important to those of us who live for crafting and selling.


Now that is disparaging. Learn what the word means before you use it.


Crimsonsplat
Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:28 am
#18






DocSavag wrote:
One should always pay attention to the exit polling data of their customers to improve their product but you cannot soley design your product around the desires of customers you no longer have. You will end up losing the current customers in the process. Sadly I am nearing the point of being one of those ex customers. I wonder if any of my exit polling data will be useful to them.





Doc, they have to be TAKING exit poll data first. As I've said before, I canceled my account over this. Stupidly, I let a friend talk me into returning long enough to see how themarket shakes out.


But when I canceled, the popup asked me to take their poll on why I was leaving. Sure, I'll do that--it's a useless piece of crap (unless they changed it), but I'll take it again.....


"You do not have an account."


!?!?!?!? OF COURSE I DON'T HAVE AN ACCOUNT YOU STUPID PIECE OF S----! I JUST CANCELED IT!


So I guess SOE doesn't even care if we leave or why, if they can't be bothered to fix such a basic web bug. Now that's truly *bad*.

BruSwillis
Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:34 am
#19






Crimsonsplat wrote:


The opinion of a crafter alt in sheeps clothing isn't important to those of us who live for crafting and selling.

Now that is disparaging. Learn what the word means before you use it.






My forum rule was always never feed the trolls but I will break that for you.


Ive been a Weaponsmith and a Merchant since beta 3 and I fully know what disparaging means and used it in the correct context for my personal viewpoint. How you feel the need to attack me and try to make out you are somehow more of a crafter and merchant than me is laughable, you werent even playing the damn game when I was first a Master Weaponsmith/Master Merchant. Personally speaking, because of your childish post im going to gloat and revel in my increased sales and better purchasing power because of the Vendor search so I will continue to state how, even with it's faults the system is much better than the joke system we had before. Sad little short visioned players need to see the bigger picture and realise people in game can now find products a lot easier, so the Devs accomplished their goal. I would love for them to refine the sytem, iron the bugs and for it to work better but I stand by my statement that it has made selling and finding goods in game much, much better.


The biggest joke is vendor registration on the maps. So many Merchants are complaining that that feature is now a waste of skill points when it was those merchants in the first place who continued to have their vendors listed and always empty or poorly stocked that led to that skill being a waste of skill points and a feature the buying gamers could no longer rely on.








_____BruMasterUnderworldSmuggler.
___________Toth'raRebelBothanSpy.

RamondChappell
Tue Mar 29, 2005 9:44 am
#20



BruSwillis wrote:

The biggest joke is vendor registration on the maps. So many Merchants are complaining that that feature is now a waste of skill points when it was those merchants in the first place who continued to have their vendors listed and always empty or poorly stocked that led to that skill being a waste of skill points and a feature the buying gamers could no longer rely on.







Yes, it was all part of the evil merchant grand master plan to waste people's time with their vendors... it couldn't be that people who once had those vendors left in droves and there was no way left by SOE to remove them... nope, that couldn't be it at all.
freedomwarrior
Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:18 am
#21






BruSwillis wrote:





Crimsonsplat wrote:


The opinion of a crafter alt in sheeps clothing isn't important to those of us who live for crafting and selling.

Now that is disparaging. Learn what the word means before you use it.






My forum rule was always never feed the trolls but I will break that for you.


Ive been a Weaponsmith and a Merchant since beta 3 and I fully know what disparaging means and used it in the correct context for my personal viewpoint. How you feel the need to attack me and try to make out you are somehow more of a crafter and merchant than me is laughable, you werent even playing the damn game when I was first a Master Weaponsmith/Master Merchant. Personally speaking, because of your childish post im going to gloat and revel in my increased sales and better purchasing power because of the Vendor search so I will continue to state how, even with it's faults the system is much better than the joke system we had before. Sad little short visioned players need to see the bigger picture and realise people in game can now find products a lot easier, so the Devs accomplished their goal. I would love for them to refine the sytem, iron the bugs and for it to work better but I stand by my statement that it has made selling and finding goods in game much, much better.


The biggest joke is vendor registration on the maps. So many Merchants are complaining that that feature is now a waste of skill points when it was those merchants in the first place who continued to have their vendors listed and always empty or poorly stocked that led to that skill being a waste of skill points and a feature the buying gamers could no longer rely on.










Please enlighten me to how people can find things easier? I was doing searchs for items just to get an idea of where my items appeared. I decided to do a page by page, and to my surprise, im not in the first 30 pages. Well, ok thats minor because of the number of armorsmiths on the server, but then I start looking closer at the items, and to my surprise I found 1 item listed on 5 different pages. I know its the same item because I made it, and the item is on a friends vendor because he couldnt use it. It was a pair of gloves sliced for 90% base. Its the only armor he has on his vendor, and it was listed on page 5, 7, 9, 12, and 16. Now, with items being listed multiple times, please tell me how its easier for the consumer?


In concept, what they proposed is a good idea, but implementation of said proposal was 1/2 baked. I too have played since launch and been a crafter, so have seen many different changes, and this by far was the biggest cluster *bleep for excessive language* to date on crafters/merchants.



-Ackire-

THE Retired
dMaster Armorsmithd
Located on the wonderful Planet of Naboo
Now located at -3256 3748, outside of Theed
-=X=-

BruSwillis
Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:31 am
#22






freedomwarrior wrote:

Please enlighten me to how people can find things easier? I was doing searchs for items just to get an idea of where my items appeared. I decided to do a page by page, and to my surprise, im not in the first 30 pages. Well, ok thats minor because of the number of armorsmiths on the server, but then I start looking closer at the items, and to my surprise I found 1 item listed on 5 different pages. I know its the same item because I made it, and the item is on a friends vendor because he couldnt use it. It was a pair of gloves sliced for 90% base. Its the only armor he has on his vendor, and it was listed on page 5, 7, 9, 12, and 16. Now, with items being listed multiple times, please tell me how its easier for the consumer?


In concept, what they proposed is a good idea, but implementation of said proposal was 1/2 baked. I too have played since launch and been a crafter, so have seen many different changes, and this by far was the biggest cluster *bleep for excessive language* to date on crafters/merchants.





The problem you have is that your items arent listed in the first 30 pages, the buyer however has probably found what he wants and bought it in much less time than it would have taken traveling to 15 empty vendors.


I keep saying, over and over that the system is flawed right now and it need a lot of work especially with duplicate items and a poor filter but it's still better than travelling planet to planet going to empty vendors from lazy merchants who either cant be bothered to keep well stocked or just were generally screwing the hard working merchants by quitting and not removing their vendors or disabling them from planet listings.






_____BruMasterUnderworldSmuggler.
___________Toth'raRebelBothanSpy.

Crimsonsplat
Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:12 am
#23






BruSwillis wrote:





Crimsonsplat wrote:


The opinion of a crafter alt in sheeps clothing isn't important to those of us who live for crafting and selling.

Now that is disparaging. Learn what the word means before you use it.






My forum rule was always never feed the trolls but I will break that for you.


Actually, from my POV, you are the troll. It's a good rule though, one I broke as well.


Personally speaking, because of your childish post im going to gloat and revel in my increased sales and better purchasing power because of the Vendor search so I will


Heh.Heheh. Hehahahahahahahahaha! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!


Someday I'll explain that bit of manical laughter. If I'm feeling generous and SOE fixes enough to keep me around.


continue to state how, even with it's faults the system is much better than the joke system we had before. Sad little short visioned players need to see the bigger picture and realise people in game can now find products a lot easier, so the Devs


Easier? As the buyer, you can finda product, but can you find the product you want? Well, yes, if you don't care about quality and it's in a category that's got few items. Honestly, I'm still having better results by going to my datapad and looking up things like "Sage's Armor--excellent pre-sliced composite" than trying to find someone new on page 23 and wear my wrist out clicking for details on item after item.


As a seller, the bigger picture is that I'm on page 7or worse, in a field where quality is irrelevant and price/location is the only thing.


accomplished their goal. I would love for them to refine the sytem, iron the bugs and for it to work better but I stand by my statement that it has made selling and finding goods in game much, much better.


The biggest joke is vendor registration on the maps. So many Merchants are complaining that that feature is now a waste of skill points when it was those merchants in the first place who continued to have their vendors listed and always empty or poorly stocked that led to that skill being a waste of skill points and a feature the buying gamers could no longer rely on.


I ask you was that the player's fault or SOE's?The first time I quit thisgame (after the originalMerchant nerfs), I gave away EVERY PENNY in my bank account--but I left my vendors up. When I got bored with EQ and came back to enjoy real crafting, I had 1.8 million in the bank to restart: all from sales off my vendors after I "quit." Thanks to SOE's changes, the vendors were gone along with all my remaining stock, but I had the money to restart. That was exactly as I'd planned, just in case.


Now with SOE's changes, you have to wonder... Vendors can't stay up more than 75 days without restocking: 30 days to delist, (and now they're off the planetary list) 30 days in the storeroom, 14 days totally empty. Poof. If you're running across that many empty vendors, ask yourself why they all left or don't care that their vendors are empty. Better yet, ASK SONY TO FIX THE REAL PROBLEM.






Bottom line: I was also frustrated by having to travel everywhere to find what I wanted. But I had to for a reason: thevendors were everywhere. If SOE had restricted vendors to being placed inside Player Cities from the outset, that would have concentrated them enormously, made the cities livelier-- with a dozen shoppers at once -- any one of which you could haveasked"Hey! The Chefs in this town SUCK! Anyone know where I can find a good one?" This is a solution that takes LESS coding, is LESS disruptive (and I say that withevery one of my vendors placed in an NPC city's ring), more social,and has far more fringe benefits to the cities & player community. As it stands, if you find two other peoplein thesame shop with you, it's a red letter day.


Who's the one with short vision? Come again?

BruSwillis
Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:29 am
#24






Crimsonsplat wrote:

If SOE had restricted vendors to being placed inside Player Cities from the outset, that would have concentrated them enormously, made the cities livelier-- with a dozen shoppers at once -- any one of which you could haveasked"Hey! The Chefs in this town SUCK! Anyone know where I can find a good one?" This is a solution that takes LESS coding, is LESS disruptive (and I say that withevery one of my vendors placed in an NPC city's ring), more social,and has far more fringe benefits to the cities & player community. As it stands, if you find two other peoplein thesame shop with you, it's a red letter day.


Who's the one with short vision? Come again?




Luckily we dont have your vision in game.
Why should I be forced to join a Player City just to place a vendor? Yes, if that is your big Merchant idea you have very very short vision.

I could rip your replies to bits too but that would be feeding the troll and i have no time for bitter ex players, they bore me.




_____BruMasterUnderworldSmuggler.
___________Toth'raRebelBothanSpy.

Crimsonsplat
Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:43 pm
#25






BruSwillis wrote:





Crimsonsplat wrote:

If SOE had restricted vendors to being placed inside Player Cities from the outset, that would have concentrated them enormously, made the cities livelier-- with a dozen shoppers at once -- any one of which you could haveasked"Hey! The Chefs in this town SUCK! Anyone know where I can find a good one?" This is a solution that takes LESS coding, is LESS disruptive (and I say that withevery one of my vendors placed in an NPC city's ring), more social,and has far more fringe benefits to the cities & player community. As it stands, if you find two other peoplein thesame shop with you, it's a red letter day.


Who's the one with short vision? Come again?




Luckily we dont have your vision in game.
Why should I be forced to join a Player City just to place a vendor? Yes, if that is your big Merchant idea you have very very short vision.

I could rip your replies to bits too but that would be feeding the troll and i have no time for bitter ex players, they bore me.





Ah yes...the type of player that doesn't care what happens to the game as long as his ability to do whatever he wants is unfettered. Oh, and I'm not an ex-player (again) yet. But I do have one foot and three toes out....


Sorry, troll, but that's the last nibblet you get.



freedomwarrior
Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:55 am
#26







BruSwillis wrote:





freedomwarrior wrote:

Please enlighten me to how people can find things easier? I was doing searchs for items just to get an idea of where my items appeared. I decided to do a page by page, and to my surprise, im not in the first 30 pages. Well, ok thats minor because of the number of armorsmiths on the server, but then I start looking closer at the items, and to my surprise I found 1 item listed on 5 different pages. I know its the same item because I made it, and the item is on a friends vendor because he couldnt use it. It was a pair of gloves sliced for 90% base. Its the only armor he has on his vendor, and it was listed on page 5, 7, 9, 12, and 16. Now, with items being listed multiple times, please tell me how its easier for the consumer?


In concept, what they proposed is a good idea, but implementation of said proposal was 1/2 baked. I too have played since launch and been a crafter, so have seen many different changes, and this by far was the biggest cluster *bleep for excessive language* to date on crafters/merchants.





The problem you have is that your items arent listed in the first 30 pages, the buyer however has probably found what he wants and bought it in much less time than it would have taken traveling to 15 empty vendors.


I keep saying, over and over that the system is flawed right now and it need a lot of work especially with duplicate items and a poor filter but it's still better than travelling planet to planet going to empty vendors from lazy merchants who either cant be bothered to keep well stocked or just were generally screwing the hard working merchants by quitting and not removing their vendors or disabling them from planet listings.








PPPlleeasse. This is more about laziness on both sides of the equation. Iwill agree with you on 1 facet that the vendors with no stock showing up was wrong, but SOE was suppose to have fixed that and didnt. As far as lazy vendors, I have over 600 items on my armor vendor and 400 on my chef and shipwright vendors, so im very well stocked. But yet with people using this new system, im not even being seen. This isnt just about their game play, but mine too. By instituting a poorly designed system, soe basically has given an unfair advantage to those lucky enough to be on the first few pages. Im not blaming the vendors who are lucky enough to be there, but the ones who put the ill fated rules into play to give them that advantage. IM a master merchant who has been in game for the same period, and I do have a good customer base, but people leave game and you still have to be able to attract new customers and with the way it is now, isnt going to be easy. I have never been one to use barker droids as it was annoying to me, and I didnt want to burden others with it, but thanks to this new patch, your gonna see droids for me from this point, and I think in the end from alot more so in the end, look out, its only going to get worse.


Now to my laziness on both sides of the equation comment. I say on both sides, because the player base whined about not being able to find what they needed. Well, its called look around and find the ones who maintain stock and save the wp. I did this for resources, how hard is this to do with the items you want. As I said, I cover all the armor(including padded), chef food, artisan and shipwright stuff. I have a friend who covers most everything else. I also know of 5 well stocked malls on my server, and to say that players cant find something is plain dumb. Its more likely because they didnt try to look. Yes I will agree that some vendors(merchants) didnt stock well, but guess what, for everyone that exists there, there is a vendor out there that is stocked. On my server, we have costco, bestbuy(now enron), big kmart, target, AAI and many more that stock quite frequently, so to say they cant find what they are looking for is a joke. Most of the player base has a supplier and is hoping for 1 thing from this, a price war. This way they can still make their 1 to 2 mil a night(and this is still possible) while trying to get stuff cheaper and still charging the merchants an arm and a leg for the items they loot. And if you would like an example, let me give you one, GDK scales. These drop more frequent now, but yet we are still made to pay 1 to 2 mil per scale. But let us charge to make the items and they gripe at us. Let us charge 2.5 to 3 mil for the ris peice because of what we had to pay and we are called gougers. I told a guy that I would make his ris suit for 500k and was told I was joking. Didnt matter if I had to take time to do the ris armor quest to get certed, didnt matter that I had to use resource kits to get best resources or take the time to search and harvest the resources, or pay for them from a supplier. They state that crafters are greedy, well whos more greedy? The one who charge 2 mil for a scale that drops more frequent or the crafter who has to charge to get his money back and make a little more on top?


You may ask what my last statment has to do with the new patch. Well I will tell you, its going to cause a price war, and only the well established merchants will be able to maintain the large(high end items) and this will push lowend merchants/malls out. This is going to hurt because in the near future your going to only have a few malls/players able to supply the community and the prices will then go higher than what they are now. You might say im an alarmist, but with a closed shop and this game in essense is a closed shop, you dont have the free market rain as in the real world. In the real world we have over 200 million people in the states alone, so there is always someone willing to take the time to fill the gap, but with a closed shop such as ours, players are going to do what they can to have the quickest gain, and thats not going to be in crafting. This is simply a fact because they wont be able to complete with the few remaining large suppliers who are established even if they did lower prices some because guess what, even then the new merchants are going to be hammered with the new rules and not be able to complete.

Let me add one more thing, these new rules arent hurting me too bad atm because I am well established. IM still doing my 2 to 3 mil a night, but my concern is more for others trying to come into the game and be a crafter.

Message Edited by freedomwarrior on 03-29-2005 04:04 PM



-Ackire-

THE Retired
dMaster Armorsmithd
Located on the wonderful Planet of Naboo
Now located at -3256 3748, outside of Theed
-=X=-

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