Merchant Archive
Thread: There is absolutly no reason why vendors should stay after you drop Merchant.
my pure crafter is a Master Artisan, Master Architect, Master Droid Engineer, and i have 11 boxes of merchant filled hiring 4, efficiency 4, and management 3.
jbeck wrote:Nope, weapons you created should not disapear. But you will lose your weapon draft schematics when you drop weaponsmith, and not be able to make any new ones. Try reading my post before you comment on it. Thanks.
Orew wrote:You mean, like, if i drop weaponsmith all my weapons should go poof?
Or that all my vendors should remain nekkid when I drop hiring 4 because there is no reason for them to keep the clothes i gave them?
Try to think before posting on the boards.
ahh so an ex-weaponsmith should not be able to make more guns...
much like an ex-merchant can no longer make vendors...
ahhh I see...
Yazule wrote:
jbeck wrote:
Nope, weapons you created should not disapear. But you will lose your weapon draft schematics when you drop weaponsmith, and not be able to make any new ones. Try reading my post before you comment on it. Thanks.
Orew wrote:
You mean, like, if i drop weaponsmith all my weapons should go poof?
Or that all my vendors should remain nekkid when I drop hiring 4 because there is no reason for them to keep the clothes i gave them?
Try to think before posting on the boards.
ahh so an ex-weaponsmith should not be able to make more guns...
much like an ex-merchant can no longer make vendors...
ahhh I see...
The problem with this analogy is that the vendor isn't the product of a merchant..it is a tool used to sell things. The weapon created by a weaponsmith is an item he can trade to anyone. Sell it..store it.. whatever. You can't do that with vendors because they aren't really items that are owned by anyone they are a portal into the vendor database that allows the merchant to sell things. Allowing him to keep using it after he is no longer a merchant makes no sense.
AngryHoopJumper wrote:
jbeck wrote:
Nope, weapons you created should not disapear. But you will lose your weapon draft schematics when you drop weaponsmith, and not be able to make any new ones.
Orew wrote:
You mean, like, if i drop weaponsmith all my weapons should go poof?
Or that all my vendors should remain nekkid when I drop hiring 4 because there is no reason for them to keep the clothes i gave them?
Try to think before posting on the boards.
"Hogwash."
There needs to be a reward for having mastered a profession other than "another notch in the belt for the Hologrinders" and "a badge".
Being able to keep master-experimented schematics (only as long as you can find the resources to keep building them) is one such reward.
Being able to keep your extra vendors is another such reward.
People have made good arguments that "keeping vendors after dropping Merchant" is a Bad Thing. But not one has suggested that "schematics made while as a master should *poof*". And if that's your reasoning, then congratulations, you've just pushed me onto the "Heck with it. Let 'em keep their vendors. They earned 'em."
Your argument is akin to suggesting that when you /image yourself after grinding to Master Image Designer, your face should return to its n00b origin. On grounds of logical inconsistency, "no thanks."
Note:
I did not say Manufacturing Schematics.
I said Draft Schematics.
Draft schematics are the ones that you place into your crafting tool to make items and manufacturing schematics.
Manufacturing schematics should not go poof. Just like weapons should not go poof.
However, as Katmer states, vendors and the tools of the merchant trade. Just as an ex-weaponsmith should no longer be able to use the Weaponsmith draft schematics (the tools of the weaponsmith), ex-merchants should not be able to keep using their vendors (the tools or the merchant).
DocSavag wrote:
It isn't beneficial for the merchant profession to have people taking the skills trees..extracting vendors and then ditching the skill tree.
that is really the crux of the matter....there is nothing here to really interest anyone...
if they make that change i will just keep enough hiring to have 3 vendors....the rest is not worth it and doesnt add to my fun in anyway
all our skills do is allow people to build vanity shops.
There is NO WAY someone should retain skill benefits after giving up the skill....none!
Bigger concern for me here is just hearing the vendor item limit!!! OMG....DO NOT DO THIS SOE!!!! YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!!!! I HAVE SIX VENDORS WITH 500 OR MORE ITEMS PER! THAT'S THE ONLY WAY MY BUSINESS WORKS!!!
PUT IN A GARBAGE NERF LIKE THIS AND WATCH ALL MERCHANTS GO DO SOMETHING ELSE....LIKE ANOTHER GAME....
How friggin lame...nerf those that keep the skill and do dickus to those who are EXPLOITING.....BRILLIANT!
This is definitely not an "exploit" as it is functioning as described within the skill description. Alot of people feel this isn't how it "should" work though and that is their right. It's amazing how fast people cry "exploit" just because they don't like people doing this or that or that it can work that way.
Regardless of this, IMO too much effort is being placed on this and not enough on making merchant skills more useful or getting new, useful skills. 75%+ of the merchant skills aren't worth the skill points. Why should this be the case? Give the merchant tree some truely useful skills (that are continually useful) and this "problem" will be much less meaningful as there would be a benefit to keeping the skills. People drop the skills because it's vastly more profitable to put those skill points into something else.
bpeter3 wrote:
This is definitely not an "exploit" as it is functioning as described within the skill description. Alot of people feel this isn't how it "should" work though and that is their right. It's amazing how fast people cry "exploit" just because they don't like people doing this or that or that it can work that way.
Regardless of this, IMO too much effort is being placed on this and not enough on making merchant skills more useful or getting new, useful skills. 75%+ of the merchant skills aren't worth the skill points. Why should this be the case? Give the merchant tree some truely useful skills (that are continually useful) and this "problem" will be much less meaningful as there would be a benefit to keeping the skills. People drop the skills because it's vastly more profitable to put those skill points into something else.
I don't think the number of useless skills is as high as 75%.
"Continually useful": vendors that continue to work for you is a continued use. Advertising that continues to show up on the map is a continued use. The discounts you get for your vendors and your structures in Efficiency are continually usefull as well. I want more new features too but our profession is not without its worthwhile skills. If someone doesn't value Hiring or Advertising or Efficiency they aren't required to take or keep them. If you only need one or two vendors you dont' have to take the Management Line. But that is a choice every profession has.
People drop their skills becfause they can do so and keep doing exactly what they are doing. If they lost the vendors they wouldn't be doing it..as evidenced by the fact that they flooded us with questions about how it would work for months before it became common knowledge that you could do it without losing anything.
I'm not about to get into the debate about the "Manage Vendor" skill mod. I think the whole discussion is pointless. It isn't beneficial for the merchant profession to have people taking the skills trees..extracting vendors and then ditching the skill tree.
planetary advertising is the only skill that I see as continually useful. Ad barking is generally worthless, I use it but only because I had to get it to get planetary map registration.
discounts on vendors/bazaar fees (and maintenance to some extent)...who cares. Most people have millions of credits, so what if it's costs an extra 5cr/hour or whatever to run a vendor?Maintenace reductiononly makes a moderate difference if you run 9 heavy harvesters and even then you can easily recoup any cost (and make good profit) if you get any business at all.
6 vendors - not really needed, sure they help organize but is it better to have more vendors or more/better things to sell? It helps, but you can make due without. If you can keep multiple shopswell stocked you are a true master of the trade. (note: which is when you absolutely need more vendors)
Hiring - only a tailor can make a real arguement that they NEED to have a vendor look a certain way. customers don't care how it looks, they are there for products...not to oogle over how your vendor looks.
(I'm sure you feel differently about some of them, but it's my breakdown asa merchant)
What I mean by continually useful, are things skills that are useful each time a sale is placed or made such that you have a true need to keep the skills (AND improve the merchant class usefulness, makingthem inherently better than a non-merchant). Things like the ability to set higher bazaar prices, ability to list vendor items on the bazaar, instant delivery optionsfor a fee, etc. are some excellent examples that other people have made on these forums and should be more important things to pursue.
(note: as I see it, changing the needing merchant skills to use a vendor really doesn't improve merchants, it hurts the non-merchants. I hope you see the distinction I am trying to make. Pick your fight and choose one that helps you, not hurts the other guy)
I should keep the vendors because I am PAYING for them.
I pay 1000s of credits a day in maintance...to you know MAINTAIN them,
There is no other profession that that requires you to PAY to USE THE SKILLS.
If i drop weaponsmith it still doesnt cost me money..well it never did.
And the fact that you are gleeful at the 150 limit is just sad. It doesnt "help" the so-called profession. All that is going to do is make things more aggrivating for many players and drive people to list on the Bazaar.
but then you will whine until the bazaar gets nerfed.