Merchant Archive
Thread: Vendors Should NOT Disappear if One is No Longer a Merchant!
I want to make sure my position on this is clear. I don't want ANYONE to lose any items. But I do want you to lose your ability to use vendors to sell items if you lack the skills it takes to aquire those vendors. I feel it is unfair for you to take merchant skills. Get vendors and then surrender those skills and then compete with merchnats using items from their own skill trees.
I know a lot of people are in favor of this and, at the outset, I could see why. However, I think some middle ground needs to be reached. I read the correspondent thread and how angry and upset the correspondent was that vendors continue(d) to exist, even if one has sacrificed their merchant/business skills.
There is good reason for this. On the other hand, the game treats a vendor as an "item." And the correspondent says: "Lastly, Merchants need to be made whole again, by finding and fixing the issue that allows people to place vendors, and then back out of the skill, retaining the use of the vendor. This undermines those that are merchants, and makes our class a throw away. NO OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME ALLOWS YOU TO RETAIN A SKILL AFTER YOU BACK OUT OF IT!!!"
And, like I said, at first glance I agreed with this. But it's not exactly an untenable position. The "skill" is in creating a vendor which, of course, those without merchant skills can no longer do. A vendor, itself, is not a skill by a byproduct of a skill. A"vendor" is an item in the game -- andit actually is treated quite similar to other career items. In fact, you can become an architect, create your own house, and then forget architect and your house won't disappear! Same with your clothes if you were once a tailor or your gun if you were once a weaponsmith!
Vendors ARE items, not "skills" -- therefore a compromise must be reached. I know FAR TOO MANY people who, if this were changed, would simply be unable to regain merchant in time to not have all their items POOF on their vendor (assuming such a change was retro).
That said, how about ONLY merchants can maintain a vendor? You would have to hire someone to come into your house to maintain the vendor; otherwise, it would become inactive. Or perhaps vendors should become more dynamic objects -- tradeable, and sellable, and as interesting to buy as guns and clothes. That would make the Merchant career a bit different.
My point is this: this far in the game, an economic change such as this would cause chaos. I've at least a dozen friends in various crafting professions that no longer have merchant because, well, they wanted to have some combat skills as well. I fit into this category. I *UNDERSTAND* the concern behind this problem. It suggests that the "Merchant" track is only temporary. But making it so vendors would poof for those of us who abandoned merchant is unacceptable. A different solution must be found.
Look. It's very simple. If non-merchants can have vendors, then why be a merchant except to drop it?
Think of it in combat terms. Bus. 3 get's you certs for a vendor. As you progress you get different certs for different vendors. And the vendors themselves are like a combo of weapon and an abillity, and they are tied to the amount of skill you have in using that weapon/abillity. If you aren't a Novice Pistoleer, you don't get to use a DX2. If you aren't a merchant, you don't get to use Vendors. If you change that you are pretty much getting something for nothing (because you got your skill points back) and merchants get the shaft. Again. Nothing will change that. Nothing will make that any better.
No, we don't want you to lose your items. Yes, you should be able to retrieve you items from the vendor. But under no circumstances should anyone get the benefits of a skill box they DO NOT have.
Okay, my T21 and my LLC are ITEMS. I should still be able to use them to full effect after I surrender all of my marksmen skills.
My camp kits are ITEMS, I should still be able....
My stimpacks and woundpacks are ITEMS....
My musical instruments are ITEMS...
...sorry, I'm just not seeing the logic here.
Sorry about that, I hit the wrong key. Again, simply put it in the patch message. IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE VENDOR, AND NO LONGER POSSESS MERCHANT SKILLS, YOUR VENDORS WILL DISAPPEAR ON (insert patch date) PLEASE REMOVE ANY ITEMS THAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO LOSE BEFORE THAT DATE, OR THEY WILL BE LOST.
That should serve as fair warning to anyone that is using this exploit/ bug/ advantage. If, after a week of that message, (that you would see at least 7 times, after each server patch) anyone loses something off of the vendor that they shouldn't have, then they should get no sympathy from the SWG team, because they had been warned. The merchant class will have its first big exploit fix/ class balance issue resolved, and everyone that was smart enough to remove all their merchandise from their vendor, will be glad that they had the opertunity to not lose their stuff/ money.
Fair is fair, and using the vendors when you are not even a merchant is not fair.
So a person who reaches master creature handler should be able to still use the pets that they tamed, since the creatures are items? I mean that would be nice to be able to call a Kima if I wasn't a creature handler. Oh how about I make a butt load of camps and use them. I mean it takes a ranger skill to make them. I am sure that anyone could put them up with instructions right.
Alexyys (TKA and Business Woman) [Formerly Creature Handler and Ranger]
Sorry, a vendor is not a gun or a crafting station. It is NOT an item. It is an NPC that you are 'paying' (hired and managing) to sell things for you.
If you don't have a certain crafting skill, you can't keep making that item. The scematic is gone.
If you don't have the hiring and mgmt skills, you can't hire or maintainvendors.
There's no middle ground or compromise - you don't have the skill, you can't keep using it.
End of story.
(hate to be so one sided, but this issue is totally one sided)
However, I understand that removing the skill from Artisan should give people enough time to adjust and compensate to the change. I never read about this change.
But get a merchant over to your house, have them place a vendor, and then move all your wares to that vendor.
Gain novice merchant, place your own vendor,and then transfer your wares to your own vendor.
Problem solved.....
This thread was never intended to be an argument about whether or not vendors are items (although the game treats them as such), but whether or not POOFING them is a fair alternative to fixing the solution.
Chataka, and others, have summed it up quite cleary: "That being said no one should lose items even if they are taking advantage of a bad design. (Even inadvertantly)."
The middle ground that must be sought is for Merchants to be more than a throw-away class and yet for those who were once merchants to not lose the items on their vendors.
Vendors are treated *like* items in the game, but are far more important to the Merchant career track than any other item. Therefore I think the confusion has arisen. But regardless, that isn't the point -- the point is for the devs to fix the class without having items poofed from vendors. Someone suggested a week's notice, but I think that is too short (especially to reobtain Merchant exp, which one has little control over).
A better alternative is that which says the vendor just ceases to be of use; one can no longer sell items but can retrieve them. That would solve the problem.
Can we end the argument about them being items and work on a solution/compromise between these two issues?
Mackle wrote:
I am trying to be understanding of the position you are in, but what you are asking is for us to agree to continue to be worthless.
No. Nowhere was I suggesting that the Merchant career should be worthless, or that I should even be able to keep my vendors (or any other non-merchant crafting class). I am suggesting a different solution should be found than poofing vendors.
Hi,
this is simply like asking for keeping your skills when untrain a class. Then a Commando would keep its styles and certificates as well as an Ex-WS would keep the abilities to craft all Weapons and experiment on them.
Well, no request that can be taken serious.
Read ya.
JediBoggeyb wrote:
The middle ground that must be sought is for Merchants to be more than a throw-away class and yet for those who were once merchants to not lose the items on their vendors.
.....the point is for the devs to fix the class without having items poofed from vendors.
A better alternative is that which says the vendor just ceases to be of use; one can no longer sell items but can retrieve them. That would solve the problem.
Good middle ground allowing people to get their items off before their vendors disappear.
But these vendors still can't hang around forever. After 7 (or 30) days the items will fall off and3 days later they'll poof anyway. Then the vendors will have to be deleted.
I don't want any vendors to disappear with all items on them, and something has to be done to inform peolpe of the changes (before hand) or allow them to get the items off after the changes go in.
Like I said before, you can always get someone to place a vendor for you and move all your stuff until you get the Biz or Merchant skills.
I'm not going to argue the issue, but I think that most people that are using vendors without the skills either knew it was a bug and exploited it, or at least realized that's not how merchant skills were supposed to work.
They knew eventually it would be fixed, and now they're crying about it.
Boohoo.....