Merchant Archive
Thread: In Test Merchant Changes!
Ainwyn
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:22 pm
#14
These numbers are wonderful!!
Yes, I will have to rethink the distribution of what on each vendor, but I was beginning to think in that direction already.
12 vendors!!
I can have 5 or 6 for armor and my RL boyfriend's character can have enough for his architecture biz, too (we share the services of his alt, the master merchant *chuckle*).
This will actually help us.
*dance*
300 items per for master merchant? That is a nice bonus for being master.
Really.
I'm quite pleased with this. It actually -exceeds- (at the top end) all requests that weren't for unlimited vendors. 12 vendors I think even exceeds anyone's "plan" (the most I think anyone would have thought possible was -1- more, not double).
12 vendors... 300 items each.... *blinks in disbelief*
Yes, I will have to rethink the distribution of what on each vendor, but I was beginning to think in that direction already.
12 vendors!!
I can have 5 or 6 for armor and my RL boyfriend's character can have enough for his architecture biz, too (we share the services of his alt, the master merchant *chuckle*).
This will actually help us.
*dance*
300 items per for master merchant? That is a nice bonus for being master.
Really.
I'm quite pleased with this. It actually -exceeds- (at the top end) all requests that weren't for unlimited vendors. 12 vendors I think even exceeds anyone's "plan" (the most I think anyone would have thought possible was -1- more, not double).
12 vendors... 300 items each.... *blinks in disbelief*
SeraphinAnnie
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:35 pm
#15
Me likey. The doubling of vendors was an unexpected treat, and will be SO nice for us Tailors. 300 each is wonderful, I can definately do fine with that. 
BoberFett
Mon Aug 16, 2004 5:49 pm
#16
Khristen wrote:
Can't say that I'm as super-excited as some people. It will still force me to cut my business in half (because I don't have the points to put into efficiency...I'm 3-0-0-4). Not quite sure why the efficiency tree was chosen, either. It still doesn't completely prevent "dabblers" and there's still a whole tree (hiring) that's pretty much a one-hit-wonder.
And I'm still trying to figure out what's in this for us. They fixed their database problem...great. Too bad it was at our expense. There needs to be something positive in all this for the players. Going from unlimited to having a maximum of 3600 items...that has to be spread out over 12 vendors...isn't really a benefit. I suppose it's good for those who want to specialize and operate on several planets, but for those who have one well-stocked shop it's still bad news.
This definitely gives more of an advantage to a player willig to dedicate points to merchant, especially master, while still leaving something for people who only get Biz 3/4. I think 2 vendors with 100 items at Biz 4 is fair.
I wouldn't call 0/4/0/4 a dabbler, they've got half the points. And to be a halfway decent merchant, they've probably got 3/4/0/4 anyway to get on the map. That's quite a few skill points, hardly what I'd call a "dabbler".
And the Hiring line does mean something in this system. Beyond getting the ability to dress vendors, getting that line and picking up master forone point gives a bigbump in items.The 3/4/0/4 merchant spends75 skill points to get 2750 items, including artisan points. The master merchant who spends92 points beyond gets 3600 items on 12 vendors. 850 additional items for another 17 points. The "dabbler" as you put it gets 36 items per point spent. The master merchant gets 39 items per point spent. It's pretty fair.
Sevardos
Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:10 pm
#17
Well I'm floored. This actually turned out much better than I expected.
I said I could live with 500 items per vendor at Master Merchant and actually ended up with more in aggregate.
I really didn't see that coming - increasing the number of vendors - I think that was a very good move.
Of course, I'm going to have to rethink how I do things but that's ok. This might actually be fun.
Brilyn
Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:18 pm
#19
This change still blows chunks,
I have 2 stores. I have 0400.
So now, in order to have *half*the selection of weapons available, I must *triple* my vendor Maintenance expenditure. (3.5 to be exact)
Too low. FAR too low.
Malitevv
Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:29 pm
#20
unfortunately, people who aren't willingto investskill points in merchant for the vendor capacity benefits are not going to be happy no matter how this is cut. for them, there is only one solution: no limits on vendors.
personally I think it's a good idea for players who invest in merchant and keep the points to have an advantage over players that do not do so.
Sevardos
Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:32 pm
#21
Brilyn wrote:
This change still blows chunks,
I have 2 stores. I have 0400.
So now, in order to have *half*the selection of weapons available, I must *triple* my vendor Maintenance expenditure. (3.5 to be exact)
Too low. FAR too low.
The fact you don't like it is a good indication ... it's JUST right.
SeraphinAnnie
Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:38 pm
#22
If I'm understanding it correctly, each skill box in either Efficiency or Management gives you 1 more vendor, and Master gives the 12th right?
Question for Brilyn(sp?) above...With Effec 4, you'd have what, 7 vendors? You have 2 shops, and currently can only have 1 vendor in each with 0/4/0/0. Yes, they're 2 unlimited vendors, but keeping 1750 weapons in stock between 2 shops wouldn't be enough?Honestly, do you havemore than 875 items on each of those 2 vendors currently? If so, you're the extreme WS, as I've never seen one who has even over 400 items per vendor before. I'm a tailor who stocks each vendor with minimum 300, usually close to 400, and even I'm happy.
Currently vendors don't even poof when they're at 0 condition, at least the ones I forgot about one time never did. I always keep money on them anyways, but still. So really, it's just as it should be, fixed and needing payment. They're not that expensive to maintain, not even if you used the full 7. I rarely note numbers, but it takes approx what, 5000c to maintain a vendor for an entire month. I could be wrong on that though, as I just throw money at them every couple of weeks, although I doubt it's much higher than that. If you're not netting 35k a month, something's wrong. 
Btw, if I'm wrong on how I'm seeing the new setup, someone please correct me. I'm not picking on you Brilyn, I understand that no one really wanted caps at all. But I do think this is a good compromise for sure.
Elyssa
Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:02 pm
#23
While these limits aren't as high as I would have liked, I do understand the need for item limits.
The best compromises are reached when neither side gets what it wants.
My biggest concern was not having enough space to sell all the items I could produce in a quantity that would relieve the pain of constant restocking.
A 250 item limit would absolutely strangle me under the current system because I would need all 6 of my vendors just to sell furniture.
However, 12 vendors presents a feasable solution by allowing me to categorize my furniture amongst different vendors.
My biggest concern was not having enough space to sell all the items I could produce in a quantity that would relieve the pain of constant restocking.
A 250 item limit would absolutely strangle me under the current system because I would need all 6 of my vendors just to sell furniture.
However, 12 vendors presents a feasable solution by allowing me to categorize my furniture amongst different vendors.
The 300 item limit for Masters was a nice bonus.
Since some of my vendors rarely have in excess of 100 items, I will not be forced to cram 15 different product lines onto a single vendor either.
I declare this solution to be acceptable and I will continue my month-by-month subscriptions for now.
Now, let's revamp that vendor interface and give us a "restock as listed" button and make it easier to do consignment sales! More attractive employees would be nice too!
Oh, and don't think that we've forgotten about the recursive macro thing either.
Since some of my vendors rarely have in excess of 100 items, I will not be forced to cram 15 different product lines onto a single vendor either.
I declare this solution to be acceptable and I will continue my month-by-month subscriptions for now.
Now, let's revamp that vendor interface and give us a "restock as listed" button and make it easier to do consignment sales! More attractive employees would be nice too!
Oh, and don't think that we've forgotten about the recursive macro thing either.
LadyGrace
Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:12 pm
#24
This is great for master merchants and I must admit I am surprised, I honestly didn't expect them to give us anything workable and this actually is.
I understand that there will be templates with less merchant skill who won't be happy, but its still better than what you were being offered before.
Now all they need to do is add some consignment interface feature for vendors and master merchants could actually start plying their trade with ease. With all these extra vendors we can cater to more clients, as well as organising our wares better for the customers.
An aggregate limit would have been the best solution, but I think if they had a coding problem with that, then doubling the number of vendors at master was an excellent compromise.
Thumbs up from this master merchant!!
Khristen
Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:13 pm
#25
BoberFett wrote:
This definitely gives more of an advantage to a player willig to dedicate points to merchant, especially master, while still leaving something for people who only get Biz 3/4. I think 2 vendors with 100 items at Biz 4 is fair.
I wouldn't call 0/4/0/4 a dabbler, they've got half the points. And to be a halfway decent merchant, they've probably got 3/4/0/4 anyway to get on the map. That's quite a few skill points, hardly what I'd call a "dabbler".
And the Hiring line does mean something in this system. Beyond getting the ability to dress vendors, getting that line and picking up master forone point gives a bigbump in items.The 3/4/0/4 merchant spends75 skill points to get 2750 items, including artisan points. The master merchant who spends92 points beyond gets 3600 items on 12 vendors. 850 additional items for another 17 points. The "dabbler" as you put it gets 36 items per point spent. The master merchant gets 39 items per point spent. It's pretty fair.
I'm not arguing that it doesn't give some bump to those who want to dedicate points for master or that 2 vendors with 100 items in just Artisan isn't fair.
I don't agree with your assesment that you have to have 3-4-0-4 to be a halfway decent merchant though. What does efficiency REALLY currently grant other than a merchant tent? A few discounts and such, but certainly not necessary to be a "decent" merchant. With management 4 and the current 6 vendors, I have a VERY nice business. Even with the new system, you could have 3-0-0-4 and still have a "decent" business although you're going to have to specialize in order to carry any good amount of items. For many people, they're already doing that. If you're just covering one area, say architect for example, you could choose to specialize in houses or furniture or harvesters and still do good business with only merchant 3-0-0-4 (or 3-4-0-0 for that matter and gain the merchant tents). Not great, but good.
So the hiring line still adds nothing to the merchant profession as a whole with this new system unless you want to spend that 17 skill points for 850 items....that still has to be broken up across 12 vendors. Which is still cluttered and messy. 17 skill points is a lot when you're looking at people who have other advanced professions. It doesn't mean a whole lot in the novice professions, but it's still a whole tree of an advanced profession.
So, yes, someone with merchant 3-4-0-4 isn't a dabbler. But someone with 3-0-0-4 is in many ways because they can still gain some decent benefit without sacrificing a ton of skill points. If you want the full benefit, by all means you should have to spend the skill points. My argument is that in order to get that last little 'bump' you have an entire tree that is essentially worthless. And another that isn't much help other than the fact that they're adding additional vendors into it.
I just think there's more work to be done to make this something good for the players. Those first numbers they put out were so horrid that anything would have been a vast improvement. I just feel it's important not to loose sight of the fact that these item cap changes were not done for our benefit. We may see a slight improvement in performance, but I feel that is going to be more from the fact that the "illegal" vendors will be gone. I don't think there's as many people with 1k+ items per vendor as it's made out to be. And even so, there are quite a few more that make up for it that have 20-50 items on their vendors.
LonelyGhost
Mon Aug 16, 2004 7:56 pm
#26
The efficiency tree can be effective, depending on the kind of game you play. I am in charge of paying maint on all the Guild structures, factories, and harvesters. My 20% saves tens of thousands of credits a week on maintenance.....maybe even a low 6 digit number! The tent thing will be pretty impractical now though...can 12 vendors even fit inside one?
I am pleased with the vendor increase, to be sure. I think 300 items is a teensy bit low, but I can get on board with it. I would still rather see a sliding scale for the item cap, in the spirit of the first (silly) proposal. 50 items at Bus 3 all the way up to 300 at Master. Its another way to reward people for putting the time and SP into Merchant....which, btw, are still lacking in any business tools like Consignment sales, a "restock at last price" button, etc.....