Merchant Archive

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ToranTT wrote:

I dunno, everyone sees it differently, but the way I see it is this: Price fixing is already in, they are just changing the value. At their current rate of attacks on the merchant class, they may as well just scrap the merchant class and vendors and allow player city bazaars.

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You are right it does exist but changing the value isn't minor it means a host of other items that couldn't be sold on the bazaar will be and their prices will be affected as well.

And while I don't like to be an alarmist. I do agree that this is doing nothing to solve the existing issues we have trying to make the merchant profession a full featured profession instead of just something you take if you are a crafter who wants more than one vendor.

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QuiJonOz wrote:

Raising the bazaar cap means a couple of things...

1) Less benefit to being a merchant

2) More lag on the bazaar as a lot more will be sold there.

The bazaar should be for newbies, junk, and low level commodities.

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Throw this in the mix. From TH's latest post in the In Dev thread:

"DocSavag is a strong voice for the Merchants and based on the correspondent issues, this change may include the fact that only merchants can have vendors. "

Didn't copy the whole thing. If it's not in the tracker yet, check the last page or so of the thread, assuming the Bus III revolt hasn't hit the thread yet.

Darkov wrote:
I could be really stupid here, but I don't see how being able to sell something for 6k instead of 3k will devalue the product. Instead of selling 5 units of spice you will sell 10 units of spice, then still sell 25 units for 15k on the vendors. Taking an extreme point that broadening the range of products and prices available on the bazaar will devalue everything in game is a bit silly, after all, money isn't really an issue for the average player, a good days hunting or selling will cover the costs easily until the next money making venture

Toran's about right. And you're not stupid, no one else sees it either.

Let's look at molecular clamps. I've done the math on them. Right now, no matter where you go, molecular clamps sell for anywhere between 6k and 15k per crate of 25. Now, if people sell them on the bazaar for 6k a crate, no one will EVER pay more than 6k a crate for them. Why would they? They leave the starport, walk to a bazaar terminal and there's 6k crates of clamps. Why would they go allllll they way to my vendor and buy them for more? So the price of a crate of clamps is now fixed at 6k per crate.

Ya wanna hear the REALLY messed up part? 6k per crate of molecular clamps is selling at a HUGE loss UNLESS you mine your own resources. 1 clamp costs 90 metal. You're **edit** lucky to find metal at 3cpu, especially in those amounts. So an entire factory run (1000 units or 40 crates) costs 90,000 metal or (at 3cpu) 270, 000 credits. Sell the 40 crates at 6k per crate and you make....

240,000 credits. That's right, at 3cpu for you materials you are LOSING 30,000 credits per factor run. Unless you mine your own resources and therefore pay less. Which screws the casual crafter, who can't afford to sell clamps any more, when he WAS selling them at 15k a CRATE.

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Smonkey wrote:

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QuiJonOz wrote:

Raising the bazaar cap means a couple of things...

1) Less benefit to being a merchant

2) More lag on the bazaar as a lot more will be sold there.

The bazaar should be for newbies, junk, and low level commodities.

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Throw this in the mix. From TH's latest post in the In Dev thread:

"DocSavag is a strong voice for the Merchants and based on the correspondent issues, this change may include the fact that only merchants can have vendors. "

Didn't copy the whole thing. If it's not in the tracker yet, check the last page or so of the thread, assuming the Bus III revolt hasn't hit the thread yet.

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It is interesting that my name got dropped in that quote since nothing I've posted on this subject has called for any removal of vendors from Artisans. He MAY be refering to our crusade to stop people from giving up the "Manage Vendor" skill mod and still keep managing vendors, but I 'm not sure. The proposal that Draznar did make and that I have followed up with in the correspondant forum is that if you are going to limit vendor items then do it on a scale starting low at artisan and moving up. This at least has SOME kind of incentive effect for being or having a merchant if you are an Artisan wanting to sell a full prodcut line.

Not sure i see the problem. I'm not going to start putting crates of sunburn or fishak on the bazaar just because the cap is 6k. They will still be on my vendor for 25k and 40k.

Biggest effect will be that small time resource sellers will put down bigger lot sizes. Might help tailors there the only ones ive seen with single items that would fit under the cap.

Yeah, YOU won't. Care to make the bet that NO ONE will? Really this only applies to stuff that IS currently being sold or can be sold by the crate for 6k. If you don't have products that start in that price range or fall under those categories, then you MAY not have to worry. Me? My products ALL fall under it. The bottom anyone sells crates of nuetron pixie or molecular clamps for is 5-6k. The top end? 15k. So the bottom end WILL be the price. That's a problem.

This is so pathetic.

There are 32 professions in this game. The only reason the Bazzar cap exists is to give legitimacy to the merchant class. With every other profession (30 if you include Artisian Bus3 and merchant)not able to create vendors, is it any wonder that we are going to loose this poll. And loose badly.

we ARE. So we need to go vote. NOW.

The only merchants I see supporting this are resource dealers. Take a look at Tailoring, can anyone tell me what an average master item goes for? If your still thinking its around 10k. That means that almost every item in the tailoring profession is now going to be able to be posted on the Bazaar meaning now grinders are going to be able to control the tailoring economy with mass loads of grinded items at basment bottom prices. Now tell me if there are mass numbers of players out there willing to flood the tailoring market with large amounts of items with no intenet to recieve a profit how can this be good for those that are in the tailoring buisness to make money. The problem is Master Tailors make up less then 1% of the population and most likely won't be listened to but I'll say right now if this goes through expect to make up the costs with much higer prices. You have been warned!

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JTGAlpha wrote:

Let's look at molecular clamps. I've done the math on them. Right now, no matter where you go, molecular clamps sell for anywhere between 6k and 15k per crate of 25. Now, if people sell them on the bazaar for 6k a crate, no one will EVER pay more than 6k a crate for them. Why would they? They leave the starport, walk to a bazaar terminal and there's 6k crates of clamps. Why would they go allllll they way to my vendor and buy them for more? So the price of a crate of clamps is now fixed at 6k per crate.

Ya wanna hear the REALLY messed up part? 6k per crate of molecular clamps is selling at a HUGE loss UNLESS you mine your own resources. 1 clamp costs 90 metal. You're **edit** lucky to find metal at 3cpu, especially in those amounts. So an entire factory run (1000 units or 40 crates) costs 90,000 metal or (at 3cpu) 270, 000 credits. Sell the 40 crates at 6k per crate and you make....

240,000 credits. That's right, at 3cpu for you materials you are LOSING 30,000 credits per factor run. Unless you mine your own resources and therefore pay less. Which screws the casual crafter, who can't afford to sell clamps any more, when he WAS selling them at 15k a CRATE.

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Okay, let's take this example.... If selling something at 6K a crate is selling that item at a *LOSS* who in their right mind will continue to sell so cheeply *AND* stay in buisness for any length of time? I'm certainly not going to. I just have to disagree with this agrument, for one simple reason...No *REASONABLE* merchant is going to significantly lower his cost on a product so it fits under *ANY* cap regardless of how large that cap is.

Now, admittily, Pittville sand and gravel is a Resource buisness. For the most part, our resources are found on our Talusvendor for 2cpu, and at the Coronetbazzar for 3cpu. (There are exceptions in both directions, depending on the resource in question, but this is a pretty standard rule.) But our Merchant, Garbela, also happens to be a Master Artisan and a Master Medic who dabbles in medical supplies (Stim-Bs for the most part). With the 3K limit, she would break her crate of 50 into what ever portions make sense on a per stimpack level (she varies the price based on the quality rather than aper resource view)and sell that way until she hit Adv. 3 (which she now has, so our vendors are mapped) as an advertising tool for her Stimpack vendor. I just don't see reasonable merchants changing their prices to fit the cap if it means takeing a loss. Maybe a slightly less profit margin (after all if you're selling more of an item for a slightly less profit, aren't you making more profit over the long haul?), but not an *ACTUAL* loss.

And as for your clamps example, just split the crate into two 10's and a five,and price accordingly. The guy who put his full crates up at 6K will sell out quickly enough, and yours will begin selling again. He'll get tired of taking the loss, and either adjust his price or stop selling clamps.

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Apulieuswrote:

Biggest effect will be that small time resource sellers will put down bigger lot sizes. Might help tailors there the only ones ive seen with single items that would fit under the cap.

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The only tailors its going to help are Holo Tailors that are grinding any and everything . These already hurt legit Tailors with them selling master items at 1k on the bazaar. No my friend this is going to hurt Tailors more then anyone.

Who would sell for a loss? People who can get their resources cheaper than 3cpu. Which ain't all of us.

What THAT means is that the only way to compete in that market is by mining. Right now mining is an advantageous and cheaper option, only undesireable by the amount of added time, energy, credits, and lot spaces. Plenty of people do it. They get an edge in selling. They are better able to compete. THis is all fine. This is all good. And how it should be.

However, if mining is the ONLY way to make a profit then you are closing off the market to casual players who don't "want to go there." I know I don't. I dont' play that often. My time is limited. Does that mean I should't be AS able as someone who invests more time and resources? Yep. Does that mean I shouldn't be able to compete in the market at ALL? No.

And as far as resource sellors go, ummm if I'm forced to mine my own resources, then I'm not buying it from them. That's a market in and of itself THEY"VE lost access to.

Don't start threads about the same thing over again.