Merchant Archive
Thread: Give me a single good reason why non-merchants should not be able to use a vendor?
Sigrun wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
'Because you dont have the skills' is not a reason why you should not have the skills. That is like when someone tells you 'Because I said so'. Doesnt it just piss you off because you know there really isnt a reason when they say that.
SW:G is a skills based game. Because you do not have the skills is a valid reason. If people can do stuff they don't have the skills for... what's the point in having skills?
The point was not that you should be able to do things without the skills needed but that everyone should be able to place a low level vendor much the same way peopl can use the -non-CH pets without any skills whatsoever.
"I wont try to reason because your reason will dispute it". This is practically telling the person they are right. If your reasoning is better than there is really nothing to dispute is there. If someone comes up with a real reason I will admit that is a valid reason and support the nerf but until then why should I or anyone put up with something that is unreasonable.
Reading for comprehension, bro. He was trying to tell you that, in your own mind that can't grasp the simple concept in yellow 2 paragraphs above this one, you will dispute any and every valid reason that non-artisans should not have vendors. Therefore, posting a valid, logical argument to your rantings is the same as arguing with a brick wall. Or a woman in the throes of PMS. Whichever is worse.
Ok, my bad. This should have read like it is now but I forgot to include the quotes. I was trying to state that was not a valid excuse and not the excuse I was using. And I yet to dspute a valid reason as no one has made any.
I wont even go into resorting to name calling but most people realize that it is a tactic used by the weak minded when they are on the losing side of the arguement.
If it comes to spending the skill points that is what I will have to do. However that does not mean that I have to like it and just lie down and take it without trying to reason a better solution. It also doesnt mean I am not serious about selling my loot or the items I craft from my smuggler profession.
You don't like having to burn the skill points to earn a vendor like all crafters have to, but you resent that we crafters think a fair trade would be a weapon cert from a third level skill box in a combat profession? Huh?
You keep bringing this up and I keep telling you the same thing. Being able to use a low level vendor is not the ame as being certed with a high level weapon. You can use any weapon to some extent without the use of a cert so why shouldnt I be able to use any vendor to a certain extent without a cert.
Edit: Come ON, Merchants! That was a GREAT story about Toad-Punching! Hook a fellow vendor-wrangler up with some stars if you liked it!
Message Edited by Sigrun on 08-13-2004 06:15 PM
That deed is a crafted item. How would you like it if your favorite weapon went "poof" if the player that made it quit or dropped his/her skills?
MaDuece wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
Actually the crux of the problem is that people have no critical thinking skills and come of withexcusesthat are not backed by reason. Take your attempt here where you show examples of almost every flaw in reasoning.
Ah no....you stated that regardless of whatever reason anyone gave you, YOU were going to dispute it. So where are YOUR critical thinking skills?
That was just me being arrogant in knowing that no one will come up with one and has nothing to do with critical thinking.
'Because you dont have the skills' is not a reason why you should not have the skills. That is like when someone tells you 'Because I said so'. Doesnt it just piss you off because you know there really isnt a reason when they say that.
Wrong again. When it says "you don't have the skills" it means that you should go out and get some.
So when I see you dont have any weapon certs does that mean you should not be able to even fire a weapon until you get a cert? Like I said 'just because' is not a reason. There is no reason to keep all vendors from people while there are reasons that people need to have at least some rudimentary vendor functions.
I wont try to reason because your reason will dispute it. This is practically telling the person they are right. If your reasoning is better than there is really nothing to dispute is there. If someone comes up with a real reason I will admit that is a valid reason and support the nerf but until then why should I or anyone put up with something that is unreasonable.
Strike 3. Your original reason for disputing everyone's reason simply means that you absolutely refuse to pull your head out of your 4th point of contact long enough to listen to anyone else's reasoning. Since this was your 1st arguement then you really put everyone off at a distance before the discussion even starts. When you really didn't have a valid reason to do so.
See the other post about this.
I wont even go into resorting to name calling but most people realize that it is a tactic used by the weak minded when they are on the losing side of the arguement.
Duckfat = Duckbutter.........sorry but that was too good to pass up. Its the childish devil in me that made me do it. You gotta admit. Pretty good eh?
Actually it was pretty lame. I have heard so many that were much better. Try Duckfart its my favorite.
If it comes to spending the skill points that is what I will have to do. However that does not mean that I have to like it and just lie down and take it without trying to reason a better solution. It also doesnt mean I am not serious about selling my loot or the items I craft from my smuggler profession.
OK then by golly .....go do it! Now you have a reason.
Like I said just because I am willing to do so based on the option given to me doesnt mean that I should not try to reason a better solution.
DesktopSaki wrote:
If none of this is convincing enough for you, please refer to the toad story above ^
It was unconvincing. Perhaps it was the tone of it. Sorry.
Decadent wrote:
Answer = They dont have the Artisan or Merchant skill.
As I am a Master Weaponsmith, Artisan and Merchant, I have spent the skill pionts to have the perks I have now. Its a risk everytime I go out to collect resources because all I have to protect me is basic novice rifleman skills unless I employ a combat type to protect me. Any non-merchant type should be doing the same thing, employing a Merchant to get their gear sold. Your agruments dont sell on me im sorry.
Duckfat wrote:
Decadent wrote:
Answer = They dont have the Artisan or Merchant skill.
As I am a Master Weaponsmith, Artisan and Merchant, I have spent the skill pionts to have the perks I have now. Its a risk everytime I go out to collect resources because all I have to protect me is basic novice rifleman skills unless I employ a combat type to protect me. Any non-merchant type should be doing the same thing, employing a Merchant to get their gear sold. Your agruments dont sell on me im sorry.
Thank you for further proving my point. You have little to no weapon skills yet you can use any weapon with very basic effectiveness.
Go create a noob on Naritus. Make him an Artisan. Then contact Sif. I will hand you a Jawa Ion Rifle. Then go kill a Gulama lair. I will fund your travel and escort you to the lair. Let's see how well that "very basic effectiveness" works out.
Why shouldnt a combat class have the same with the vendors?
The equivalent effectiveness of that Jawa Ion Rifle in the hands of your noob Aritsanis known as the Bazaar. No Merchant will ever prevent you from using it. We promise.
You personally may have novice rifleman but you must at least admit thateven a person with no rifle skillscan use the same rifles as a master rifleman with basic effectveness.
I'm sorry, how quickly did those Gulama kill you?
DesktopSaki wrote:
While I'm on the "no-nerf" side, I have to be honest and say that there's quite a few rifles that are ineffective without certain levels of skills, and that a Master Rifleman will do much more damage than a Novice.
Still, that's a good point you bring up. The novice *can* still use a rifle, the basic tool of the profession. And they can use it with the most bare basic training.
Sigrun wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
large, yellow, unintelligible rant
More of the same
Duckfat wrote:
Sigrun wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
large, yellow, unintelligible rant
More of the same
Heh I guess you are not even smart enough to come up with something original. First you feel the need to copy what I did to your post then you rewrite everything you wrote in the first post.
You seem to have the notion that I want everyone to have every skill the merchant has when all I am saying is that I believe everone should have a low level vendor that they can use to some degree. Once again it is much like everyone can use non-CH pets and weapons with less effectiveness with absolutely no skills at all. That is the true comparison. Not some rant about I should be able to do strafe or meditate or eyeshots. Just a simple vendor for basic uses expained previously.
And like I said why do people who cannot win with reasoning tend to always resort to flames.
And you still cannot read for comprehension.
You are asking for basic-level vendors.
The fencer is asking for basic-level healing.
The artisan is asking for basic-level combat.
Basic-level == basic-level == basic-level.
Why is it that you do not like the fencer using Medic skills and the Artisan using Brawler skills, but it's somehow OK for the Smuggler to use Artisan skills?
Duckfat wrote:
And like I said why do people who cannot win with reasoning tend to always resort to flames.
Sigrun wrote:
DesktopSaki wrote:
While I'm on the "no-nerf" side, I have to be honest and say that there's quite a few rifles that are ineffective without certain levels of skills, and that a Master Rifleman will do much more damage than a Novice.
Still, that's a good point you bring up. The novice *can* still use a rifle, the basic tool of the profession. And they can use it with the most bare basic training.
I highlighted that word for a reason.
I would support enabling vendors at Novice Artisan, same vendor limits as TH proposed for Biz 3, if those insane limits go in.
Exactamundo! Being required to expend the measly 24 points is well worth it if you want to peddle stuff without using the bazaar or being online. Much like spending the measly35 additional points for the priviledge of wielding a T21.
Sigrun wrote:
Duckfat wrote:
Decadent wrote:
Answer = They dont have the Artisan or Merchant skill.
As I am a Master Weaponsmith, Artisan and Merchant, I have spent the skill pionts to have the perks I have now. Its a risk everytime I go out to collect resources because all I have to protect me is basic novice rifleman skills unless I employ a combat type to protect me. Any non-merchant type should be doing the same thing, employing a Merchant to get their gear sold. Your agruments dont sell on me im sorry.
Thank you for further proving my point. You have little to no weapon skills yet you can use any weapon with very basic effectiveness.
Go create a noob on Naritus. Make him an Artisan. Then contact Sif. I will hand you a Jawa Ion Rifle. Then go kill a Gulama lair. I will fund your travel and escort you to the lair. Let's see how well that "very basic effectiveness" works out.
I bet I could do more with that Jawa Ion Rifle and just novice artisan than you are willing to even let just a novice rifleman do with a vendor. With a good buff and some comp armor I could easily take out that lair. Is there anything in your plan for people with no vendor skills to do the same?
Why shouldnt a combat class have the same with the vendors?
The equivalent effectiveness of that Jawa Ion Rifle in the hands of your noob Aritsanis known as the Bazaar. No Merchant will ever prevent you from using it. We promise.
That is nowhere near the same. The bazaar has unrealistic limits. You dont see a restriction saying that you cannot shoot anightsister with your rifle. But there is a limit that would prevent me from selling any loot I get from her at fair market value.
You personally may have novice rifleman but you must at least admit thateven a person with no rifle skillscan use the same rifles as a master rifleman with basic effectveness.
I'm sorry, how quickly did those Gulama kill you?
What gualama? Oh you mean this stack of hide? How about I put it on a vendor. Oh wait some people ahine so much that I cant.