Merchant Archive
Thread: Will NPC Vendor go poof if I give up Merchant skills?
DragonFire7 wrote:
love how people are so willing to help others exploit merchants
Hmmm... If that were true, one of the forum moderators would delete this thread - haven't seen that happen yet.
Notice you never saw any threads about "how to dupe" or "how to double slice a weapon". Why? Because those WERE exploits.
You stop referring to as an exploit and I'll stop preaching that it's not. Bad design? Yes! Need to be fixed? Yes! Exploit? No! Will I be a Master Vendor Poacher until its fixed? YES!
Why? Because I refuse to leave 63 skill points tied up in a profession that currently lacks the tools to be played properly. (This coming from a person that started out wanting to bea Merchant, but disillusioned I'm not able to do it with the game mechanics available.)
I answered the guys question. Which do you think will work better to stop vendor poaching? Acting like a child throwing a temper tantrum? Or an educated response filled with the facts and only the facts, and all opinions left out? I am thinking the second. The first just gets people to ignore you or do the very thing you rage against in spite.
It is something the DEVs have stated as something they are going to fix. It is not an exploit. It doesn't matter what you and several other PLAYERS wish to call it, because it is only the DEVs that can decide if something is an exploit. And so far, they have not given it 'exploit' status. They have only said that it wasn't intended and is going to be fixed.
So far I have yet to see a link or a post from any of the vendor poaching preacher team that shows a DEV saying that it is specifically an exploit.
"We don't recommend doing it" is far different than "Do Not Do This."
Soooooo. In closing, the story is never-ending
DingoBoi wrote:
to paraprase a dev, "it's not something we ban for, but we don't recommend doing it',
sounds like and exploit to me.
end
of
story
No - it's NOT the "end of story" - sorry but you can't "paraphrase" a DEV - you were asked to show a quote where a DEV said it was an exploit - you can not do that.
I could write a post tonight in every crafter forum entitled:
How to Poach Vendors or How to Keep Vendors Without Merchant Skills
And it would not get deleted, it would not get me banned from the forums and it would not get my account banned.
Why is that?Because it is NOT AN EXPLOIT. By any acceptable common usage of that word, in this game setting, such a post would gain me all of the above actions if it were considered as such.
Also, 'exploit' in the online gaming world has a pretty specific connotation. It is usually referred to abuse that will get you in trouble with the DEVs. So by calling this an exploit, you are just asking for people to disagree with you, because it isn't something the DEVs care enough about to quickly fix, much less to ban people over.
Is it something that the DEVs have decided they don't like? Yes. Are they going to change it? Yes. When? Who knows.
And the thing is that vendors don't suck. Merchant in it present incarnation does. Vendors are a utility item that have had their usefulness limited by a profession that gives you next to nothing EXCEPT vendors. If merchant had anything to offer besides vendors, vendor poaching wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, that is not the case, and because of it, people want the utility that vendors offer, without the waste of skill points merchant represents.
Just to make this clear... I am not saying that vendor poaching is a good thing. But it is not hard to understand why people make use of it. Fix merchant, make it a stand alone profession that allows you to do merchant related things beyond the scope of just vendors, and this issue would die. Until then, any fix to vendor poaching is just going to encourage mules and secondary accounts.
I agree that Merchant needs a lot of work, and I hope that they make it into what it should be. The fact that Merchant falls short of what it should be has nothing to do with the fact that people drop the Merchant skills. If Merchant was the "best" profession in the game, people would do the same thing for the simple fact that they can.
You can drop rifleman and still use rifles. Any rifle in the game to be exact. You just won't be very good with them. Same is true for any combat profession. The only thing the combat profession does is give you different ways to use that rifle. Like conceal shot for sneak attacks or strafe shot for direct battle. The profession gives you options for how to use your rifles and increases your skill with them.
This is essentially the same for merchant, except that instead of anyone being able to use a vendor right off, you have to at least get business 3 before you can place them. As a merchant, you get a lot of abilities/skills to use on vendors, and when you drop the profession, you lose those abilities and skills. But the vendor remains, just like a rifle would.
The real difference is that the ONLY thing merchant has are vendors. And most of that is tied up in the initial placement. So when you can keep your vendors after you drop the profession, it appears that you are keeping those skills/abilities. And in a limited fashion you are, but not to the degree some people would like to make it out as.
And this is what breeds most of the problems. There is nothing to merchant except vendors. Most of the abilities/skills you get as a merchant are directly tied to placing a vendor. That is it. And that is the problem. Also, when there is talk of a 'merchant' revamp, it is really just talk of a 'vendor' revamp. This is the main issue people have with this profession and why they don't keep it. It isn't fun to spend skill points on a profession that really doesn't HELP you or allow you to do anything but place vendors.
If there were systems in place that let you trade between cities, or buy and sell stock on a commodities market or whatever, that let you act like a merchant and actively DO merchant things using skills that specifically required you to be merchant, and the higher within merchant you are, the better you could do them, the MORE people would be willing to keep that skill point investment. As it is now though, 90% of what people call 'being a merchant' is not backed up by any skills or abilities and doesn't even require you to be IN GAME unless you are stocking. And that is why I have a problem with this profession. It is more of a mule/secondary account profession than anything else in the game, except perhaps politician.
If there were other systems in place that kept merchants doing merchant things that were fun and enjoyable, it is my opinion that the temptation to then drop the skills just to keep vendors, wouldn't be as big of a deal. Perhaps saying that it is the 'only' reason.. is a bit too much. I am sure some people would still poach anyways. But I think the numbers would be far lower than they are now.
Message Edited by DragonScout on 07-01-2004 10:44 PM
Message Edited by BountyBlunter on 07-02-2004 10:28 AM
You guys argue the same points every time! Its pointless.
DocSavag wrote:
Can we PLEASE not have this same debate again!
/extends White Flag of Peace
Doc - I'd love to NOT have this debate again.
However, I will not allow people to be misled or erroneous facts to be posted.
I've already proposed a suggestion to minimize the number of additional threads started on this issue.
1. Make a thread entitled "FAQ: What happens to my vendors if drop my skills?" and sticky it. (or some other very recognizable subject)
2. Post the question. Post a straightforward answer (absent opinions) such as:
"The developers never intended for people to keep their vendors after dropping Merchant and Artisan skils. Under the current system, you will keep your vendors and will be allowed to continue operating them as long as they are maintained. Keep in mind you will lose all other abilities such as changing ad barking or their clothing.
However, this has been identified as a problem that needs to be fixed. The developers intend on fixing it at some point in the future. There has been no official statement on exactly how the transition will occur, but it is expected that your vendors will cease all sales. Then you will most likely have a limited period of transition time to either gainthe properskills again or pull your items off and find a legitimate merchant to sell them through."
3. After you get that Question and Answer written - request a forum moderator to LOCK the thread. (You are a profession correspondent, I would assume that it would not be overly difficult for you to get a thread locked if you personally asked for it.)
The above answer states the facts as they are now. It even uses the word "legitimate" to imply those without skills are not legitimate.
It does NOT contain any reference to "exploit" which is the most divisive point related to this entire argument.
4.Anyone new coming to the forum SHOULD see that FAQ at the top. If they do not, all parties involved should be expected to simply say - please see that question, it has been stickied at the top of the forums.
Even better than you writing the answer as proposed in step 2 above, it would be great if we could get something more official on the subject. Something more than "it's not what we intended" - that is simply playing "the emperor has no clothes game" or ignoring the big elephant in the middle of the room.
We all recognize it is a problem, but vague statements from Thunderheart and no official proposal as to how they intend to fix it doesn't help the situation.
My White Flag of Peace remains extended - but, as in any peace negotiations, I reserve the right to act in self defense if fired upon.
deleted - double post
Message Edited by Ewach on 07-02-2004 11:43 AM