Merchant Archive

Thread: Oh put a cork in it!

MaDuece
Thu Aug 12, 2004 6:34 pm
#14






Super_nice_jedi wrote:

The point is until last week I didn't know it was wrong, everyone I knew was doing it in game, it was part of the game. Only those who have visited the forums a lot and discussed the merchant trade in full would have known.


No its not like a car thief blaming the car owner for leaving his car door open, 1) I wasn't aware it was wrong, and 2) When a car owner realises that he has left his car door open, he goes to shut it, he does not leave it knowingly open.


I've spoken to loads of people in game about my proposed merchant idea, over last couple of months, and not one single person flamed me for abusing the system until now. Ironic really, hypocrytical probably. I bet even you took merchant and dropped it, and now have reacquired it yourself, and accusing people who have abused the system for this nerf, as you yourself now can't use the vendors without getting back merchant.









WRONG!!!! I'm a master artisan, master weaponsmith, master chef, merchant 3/4/0/4. I've been all this for over 10 months now (minus chef; used to be a rifleman too).


Ignorance isn't bliss now is it?


Lets just evaluate this for one second. You get enough merchant to get some vendors and then you drop it. Oh my!To your surprise, your vendor(s) is still intact even though you no longer have the skills.


Are we to believe that you stumbled into this discovery by accident? I think not.


You want everyone to put a cork in it but you also add to themountain of merchant proposals?


Why don't YOU put a cork in it. Go back to the Jedi forum and stroke your glowstick with the rest of them.

Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-12-2004 06:37 PM

Super_nice_jedi
Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:23 pm
#15






MaDuece wrote:






Super_nice_jedi wrote:

The point is until last week I didn't know it was wrong, everyone I knew was doing it in game, it was part of the game. Only those who have visited the forums a lot and discussed the merchant trade in full would have known.


No its not like a car thief blaming the car owner for leaving his car door open, 1) I wasn't aware it was wrong, and 2) When a car owner realises that he has left his car door open, he goes to shut it, he does not leave it knowingly open.


I've spoken to loads of people in game about my proposed merchant idea, over last couple of months, and not one single person flamed me for abusing the system until now. Ironic really, hypocrytical probably. I bet even you took merchant and dropped it, and now have reacquired it yourself, and accusing people who have abused the system for this nerf, as you yourself now can't use the vendors without getting back merchant.









WRONG!!!! I'm a master artisan, master weaponsmith, master chef, merchant 3/4/0/4. I've been all this for over 10 months now (minus chef; used to be a rifleman too).
I did say "probably", not "definately". The fact you jumped on me about this did look suspicious, after all the fact of getting Merchant and dropping it, is a bonus to everyone, why would anybody complain? Because they're now not getting the free ride, and who else better to blame? The people who abuse the system making the devs have to do something about it. Once I admitted to my proposed idea, I became an easy target, to even people who are closet merchant droppers.


Ignorance isn't bliss now is it?
Not really, butcould have been a whole lot worse.


Lets just evaluate this for one second. You get enough merchant to get some vendors and then you drop it. Oh my!To your surprise, your vendor(s) is still intact even though you no longer have the skills.
They only remain, and can use them, can't so additional stuff like alter their clothing etc, also its the only profession that doesn't require grinding, and can be mastered without technically playing the game ie you can get xp whilst logged off. Hey maybe thats another exploit! Shouldn't get merchant xp if not logged in. So no, the ability to keep vendors after dropping merchant is not obvious as an exploit, as the merchant professionhandles things uniquely to other professions.Wasn't 100% sure it was an exploit until reading Thunderhearts post, 2 days ago.


Are we to believe that you stumbled into this discovery by accident? I think not.
Well. yes, I did say above I was told about it, and just got used to it as being part of the game. There are no rules to the game, you have to figure it out by yourself, by trialand error or by asking other people, and with this "discovery" being in effect for over a year, secured my knowledge it was acceptable, and started my plan for 5 non-merchant merchant chars. My only mistake is, not visiting the forums, which is where all the answers and truths lie, I was too busy playing the game.


You want everyone to put a cork in it but you also add to themountain of merchant proposals?
Not exactly, I'm just saying that most of the forum is like spam, going over and over the same thing, and virtually everything to be said has been said, and now its just a matter of the devs reading what they can, through the mass amount of posts, which I don't envy their task on. Also Garva, Thunderheart, and DocSavag have all said the vendor limits of 110 will be dramatically increased but yet others still post things like "110 limits is pure crzy!!!11!!11"


Why don't YOU put a cork in it. Go back to the Jedi forum and stroke your glowstick with the rest of them.
Can't do that, want to try and make the game a fair and enjoyable one, and try and prevent players quitting unnecessarily.


Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-12-2004 06:37 PM








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You're out of time, SOE The whole 2.5 months shouldn't have been. The game was fine up until Nov 15th. If the CU was worked on, instead of devoting time to the NGE (including the many months prior to November), the game could possibly be totally bug free by now.

My account cancels on 2nd Feb, which was a waste as only played game for 1 day to get the life day gifts, will be resubbing when creature handler, Bio-engineer, scout, and ranger return, oh and the FS village.
MaDuece
Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:23 pm
#16







Kershakk wrote:


Well in all fairness - he could have honestly not known what the deal was and was just chatting to his mates about how he wanted to open a mega store and one of them told him that he could keep the vendors without maintaining the skill.






I think it is perfectly fair actually.


NO OTHER profession allows you to keep ANY of its skills once you drop the profession.


This should have been a clue that something was wrong. Legitimate merchants will always do whatever it takes to keep their abilities and vendors intact. Those that took advantage of this function simply wanted "that mall on the side" and didn't really care about the profession anyways.


There may indeed be exceptions but I think the above description is pretty accurate and applies to a large portion of the player base. My experience, as of late, over the limit issue is that most legit merchants aren't totally opposed to a limit. They just don't want it to be so low that it hurts their business and profession.


ryukinku
Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:28 pm
#17

I liked the breating nerf!



ryukinku kasai ~ Master Chef/TKM ~ Bria

Kasai's Kitchen

Theed, Naboo (-4411, 3403 )

Super_nice_jedi
Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:48 pm
#18






Kershakk wrote:





MaDuece wrote:






Super_nice_jedi wrote:

The point is until last week I didn't know it was wrong, everyone I knew was doing it in game, it was part of the game. Only those who have visited the forums a lot and discussed the merchant trade in full would have known.


No its not like a car thief blaming the car owner for leaving his car door open, 1) I wasn't aware it was wrong, and 2) When a car owner realises that he has left his car door open, he goes to shut it, he does not leave it knowingly open.


I've spoken to loads of people in game about my proposed merchant idea, over last couple of months, and not one single person flamed me for abusing the system until now. Ironic really, hypocrytical probably. I bet even you took merchant and dropped it, and now have reacquired it yourself, and accusing people who have abused the system for this nerf, as you yourself now can't use the vendors without getting back merchant.







Lets just evaluate this for one second. You get enough merchant to get some vendors and then you drop it. Oh my!To your surprise, your vendor(s) is still intact even though you no longer have the skills.


Are we to believe that you stumbled into this discovery by accident? I think not.






Mr Super_Nice_Jedi, your comments about "all that work to grind master merchant out and drop the skillare now worthless" is a bit droll - I took Master Commando with an alt, dropped it all after I had fun and never once thought that having dropped Commando that losing those skills made the experience a waste of time - mmm?








Think I'm getting into trouble here by people misinterpreting what I say, as the way you have almost re-iterated what I've said, is not what I meant.


I too mastered Commando and dropped it for the sake of the holo, and it was fun, and did not find it a waste of time.


Doing Merchant, under the notion of mastering it just to drop it to keep vendors, was a no no thing to do, but I didn't realise thatas I'mdoing it, andwhen all chars get to master merchant and all of them dropped it, and none of them had master merchant, and I've got my huge store running like a dream, it would have been all worthwhile, but after hearing the news on the Merchant revamp, then reading posts about it being an exploit, my business would have been run on a lie, and that thought makes me feel sick inside, so I'm glad this revamp came about before I had a chance to get that far, but if I'd have known beforehand I would not have done Merchant at all, so now my dreams of my huge shop is not going to come about, and doing merchant was a waste of time. I've currently acquired the skills, but not going to use the skills because I have no intention on keeping Merchant.



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You're out of time, SOE The whole 2.5 months shouldn't have been. The game was fine up until Nov 15th. If the CU was worked on, instead of devoting time to the NGE (including the many months prior to November), the game could possibly be totally bug free by now.

My account cancels on 2nd Feb, which was a waste as only played game for 1 day to get the life day gifts, will be resubbing when creature handler, Bio-engineer, scout, and ranger return, oh and the FS village.
MaDuece
Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:52 pm
#19






Super_nice_jedi wrote:

The people who abuse the system making the devs have to do something about it.


There are abuses that effectother players and there are abuses that affect nothing. This specific abuse adversely affected an entire profession for players who utilized itfor what it was intended for.It allowed anyone to usevendors for whatever suited their needs (storage 1st and anything that actually sells is gravy).


Ignorance isn't bliss now is it?
Not really, butcould have been a whole lot worse.


I have thought on this and admit that I may have jumped the gun by assuming that you, like so many people,knewyou were doing something wrong. You may indeed have been mislead to believe that this was a legitimate practice by friends and associates. If this be the case then I ask that you accept my apology for being so harsh.


I just would like for you to understand that it has gotten cumbersome for the player base that has utilized this profession for so long for what it was intended for. Then we have come down to this only to be joined by legions of players that all of a sudden want to jump on the bandwagon simply because they can no longer have their unlimited storage space or easy money on the side without investment.


You want everyone to put a cork in it but you also add to themountain of merchant proposals?
Not exactly, I'm just saying that most of the forum is like spam, going over and over the same thing, and virtually everything to be said has been said, and now its just a matter of the devs reading what they can, through the mass amount of posts, which I don't envy their task on. Also Garva, Thunderheart, and DocSavag have all said the vendor limits of 110 will be dramatically increased but yet others still post things like "110 limits is pure crzy!!!11!!11"


The forums are for people that have an account that wish to voice their opinions. There are 1000s of people playing this game with 1000s of opinions. The only thing you have to remember is not to take it personal when people disagree with you. They are free to flame just as much as they are free to agree.


I dont feel sorry for the Mods and Devs. This is what they get paid to do. They are well aware of what all this entails. People are going to flog that horse until its dead or until the Devs decide to revive it.


Why don't YOU put a cork in it. Go back to the Jedi forum and stroke your glowstick with the rest of them.
Can't do that, want to try and make the game a fair and enjoyable one, and try and prevent players quitting unnecessarily.


Well telling people to simply "put a cork in it" isn't the way to go about it.






Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-12-2004 07:56 PM

Super_nice_jedi
Thu Aug 12, 2004 7:53 pm
#20







NO OTHER profession allows you to keep ANY of its skills once you drop the profession.







NO OTHER profession allows you to gain XP whilst logged off.



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You're out of time, SOE The whole 2.5 months shouldn't have been. The game was fine up until Nov 15th. If the CU was worked on, instead of devoting time to the NGE (including the many months prior to November), the game could possibly be totally bug free by now.

My account cancels on 2nd Feb, which was a waste as only played game for 1 day to get the life day gifts, will be resubbing when creature handler, Bio-engineer, scout, and ranger return, oh and the FS village.
Super_nice_jedi
Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:01 pm
#21






MaDuece wrote:






Super_nice_jedi wrote:

Why don't YOU put a cork in it. Go back to the Jedi forum and stroke your glowstick with the rest of them.
Can't do that, want to try and make the game a fair and enjoyable one, and try and prevent players quitting unnecessarily.


Well telling people to simply "put a cork in it" isn't the way to go about it.







Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-12-2004 07:56 PM





Yes, I guess it was a bit "iffy", just seemed appropriate at the time, although not many other people seem to read that literally though, as this thread would be about 10 pages by now, plus that little joke at the end takes away the seriousness of the thread a bit too.



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You're out of time, SOE The whole 2.5 months shouldn't have been. The game was fine up until Nov 15th. If the CU was worked on, instead of devoting time to the NGE (including the many months prior to November), the game could possibly be totally bug free by now.

My account cancels on 2nd Feb, which was a waste as only played game for 1 day to get the life day gifts, will be resubbing when creature handler, Bio-engineer, scout, and ranger return, oh and the FS village.
MaDuece
Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:02 pm
#22






Super_nice_jedi wrote:


NO OTHER profession allows you to gain XP whilst logged off.






Merchant skills do not involve actual "play". They involve planning and preparation. Merchants who set up in bad locations aren't going to get any business. Merchants who don't advertise will get little business. Merchants who don't stock regularly or stock the right goods aren't going to keep any loyal customers.


The enitre profession revolves around an idea of salemanship that is unique to the game environment. You can't simply reward the merchant who sets up in a bad location but is online more to actively herd people to his/her vendor and penalize the smart merchant who has superb planning and preparation skills.

Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-12-2004 08:04 PM

Super_nice_jedi
Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:11 pm
#23






MaDuece wrote:






Super_nice_jedi wrote:


NO OTHER profession allows you to gain XP whilst logged off.






Merchant skills do not involve actual "play". They involve planning and preparation. Merchants who set up in bad locations aren't going to get any business. Merchants who don't advertise will get little business. Merchants who don't stock regularly or stock the right goods aren't going to keep any loyal customers.


The enitre profession revolves around an idea of salemanship that is unique to the game environment. You can't simply reward the merchant who sets up in a bad location but is online more to actively herd people to his/her vendor and penalize the smart merchant who has superb planning and preparation skills.

Message Edited by MaDuece on 08-12-2004 08:04 PM





That is if you want XP fast. You get 100 XP per hour per vendor installed, then you get 10 xp per person, examining vendor, per time frame (1 hour I think). So it is possible to Master Merchant by just simply setting up vendors in the house, pay 3 months woth of maintenance, now with new revamp will require a 100000 credit chance cube! then go to a merchant trainer, log out, then log back in every few days to train up.



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You're out of time, SOE The whole 2.5 months shouldn't have been. The game was fine up until Nov 15th. If the CU was worked on, instead of devoting time to the NGE (including the many months prior to November), the game could possibly be totally bug free by now.

My account cancels on 2nd Feb, which was a waste as only played game for 1 day to get the life day gifts, will be resubbing when creature handler, Bio-engineer, scout, and ranger return, oh and the FS village.
MaDuece
Thu Aug 12, 2004 8:20 pm
#24






Super_nice_jedi wrote:


That is if you want XP fast. You get 100 XP per hour per vendor installed, then you get 10 xp per person, examining vendor, per time frame (1 hour I think). So it is possible to Master Merchant by just simply setting up vendors in the house, pay 3 months woth of maintenance, now with new revamp will require a 100000 credit chance cube! then go to a merchant trainer, log out, then log back in every few days to train up.




I'm not referring to fast xp. I'm talking about sales. I have merchant skills solely for the purpose of moving my crafted goods. The fast xp is just a fortunate consequence of making lots of sales IMO.

Super_nice_jedi
Fri Aug 13, 2004 3:49 am
#25






Kershakk wrote:





Super_nice_jedi wrote:






NO OTHER profession allows you to keep ANY of its skills once you drop the profession.







NO OTHER profession allows you to gain XP whilst logged off.





How's that connected? Are you saying that because you can get XP for Merchantwhile offline, you should be able to keep the skills when you surrender it?








It just added to the fact that keeping vendors after dropping skills seemed alright.


In the game you can do this, but can't do that, but if you can do that, when you shouldn't it normally gets fixed, so when the vendor thing has been around for a year, and no one has told me it was wrong, it makes it secure in the knowledge you can do this acceptably.


Also what about Theed spaceport, not having to wait for a spaceship, does anybody actually stand around until the spacehip arrives to board it? Don't think so.


I just find it pathetic that people have a go at those who operate vendors without having any relevant skills at all, and especially those who are unware that it isn't proper, as they're quite free to use the explot to their advantage themselves.The devs have openly left the exploit in, for people to exploit, and the devs had no problem with people using the exploit, just that those people would end up being screwed when the time came when they got round to fix it, as the vendors (including all items in them) would go poof before regaining the relevent skills in time, to keep them.


If its not meant to be, its not meant to be, but if people can do something, they will do it, even if its not meant to be, and the devs leaving the exploit exploitable was dead dead wrong, especially for solong, as most peoples in-game lives will have been built on a lie.


I have no problem with people exploiting known exploits in game, as they'll get their come uppance once its been fixed, I do not condone purposely created cheats to get unlimited lives or infinte cash, in online games, or 3rd party programs to manipulate game.


This explot just shows how cack this game is, and how poorly managed it is.



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You're out of time, SOE The whole 2.5 months shouldn't have been. The game was fine up until Nov 15th. If the CU was worked on, instead of devoting time to the NGE (including the many months prior to November), the game could possibly be totally bug free by now.

My account cancels on 2nd Feb, which was a waste as only played game for 1 day to get the life day gifts, will be resubbing when creature handler, Bio-engineer, scout, and ranger return, oh and the FS village.
MrElmar
Fri Aug 13, 2004 6:52 am
#26

>NO OTHER profession allows you to gain XP whilst logged
>off.

not that i am trying to jump into a p!ss!ng contest ya'all got going on here .. but just as an FYI ... my city's maint is run about 3am my time ... my mayor toon gets all of his xp for politician when i am logged off.
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