Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchant Item Limits Focus Thread: Please try to be constructive and rational (Pt 2)
Wolfbane9999
Thu Aug 12, 2004 9:31 am
#196
How can I be constructive or specific if the post containing the proposal for merchant limit is "lost"? All I understand is that it is proposed to reduce the limit of the number of items a merchant can put on a vendor. I have read 110 is the suggested number.
This seems ridiculous to me. A great way tokillacrippled economy. Most crafterscan'tsell what they make on the Bazaar. Can you sell a speederbike? A factory? A piece of Armor? A good weapon? A crate of food? An enhance pack?A bio-engineered creature?A good droid? Where is all this stuff supposed to be sold? What aboutall the resources for making this stuff? Can you buy 100k of Minerals to make Speederbikes or Armor or Weapons or Harvestersetc. etc.onthe Bazaar?? Can you get more of the resources you bought lastmonthand need foryour schematicon the Bazaar?A crate ofquality components?Andstorage! What if you just finished anice run of great "stuff" but two other crafters did also and you can't sell any right now. Where does it go?What about having reserve merchandise so you can guarantee your vendor is notlikely to run out of stock andleave players cursing andwandering aroundlooking.Whatif you have all the componentsyou needfor an uber 'thing'exceptone hasn't spawned,where doyou hold them? And what about convenient vendors in different parts of the galaxy? Will a merchant have to concentrate all it's vendors in one place?
Why?? Merchantsand crafersARE the economy. Other players are just consumers. Merchants and crafters need generous limits to make, store, and offer all the finished goods the consumer side of the economy will demand.
cinnamon_tsunami
Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:29 am
#197
Avair wrote:
There is a lot of speculation about WHY caps are coming in, one of which is as silly attempt as a Anti-Trust measure (which I rebut here http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=merchant&message.id=38664). One of the other theories that is it to fix the poorly designed vendor interface, to prevent the need for scrolling. Here's a constructive solution to fix that problem which some else suggested (and can't find) and I heartly agree with.
Rather than displaying duplicate items on seperate lines like so
Name|Credits
CDEF Pistol |2000
CDEF Pistol | 2000
CDEF Pistol | 2000
Group identical items on a single line, with a quantity displayed
Quantity Available | Name| Credits
3| CDEF Pistol | 2000
There, Vendor interface improved, no need to scroll, economy efficiency improved rather than gimped.
another info item i need is when will the item return to the stockroom. since i only get to playa few hours a week, i need to be able to pull items that are near turn over and restock them.
Bughunt
Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:30 am
#198
Bazaar/Vendor
Account Deletions should solve most of are empty vendor issue, but in itself the empty vendors are not the problem, those having venders who should not is.
Vendor limit of 660 may have well be 0.
Do the following changes instead.
Vendors that are empty will no longer be visible on the planetary map and if the player does not have the Skill points to use the planetary map. Dropped at Server Reset.
Vendors that have been left empty for two weeks will be deleted in 7 days (owner will receive a Email warning message prior to deletion Vender and will be deleted in 7th days at Server Reset).
Players with out the skill points will not be allowed add or sale items on there Vendors, Player will have to delete all any of there extra vendors (owner will receive a warning message prior to deletion Vender and will be deleted in 14 days at Server Reset)
Vendors that are empty will no longer be able toVocalization and if the player does not have the Skill points to use the Vocalization. Dropped at Server Reset.
Vendor item limits will now be based on player skill. (Players will not be able to add new items for sale on vendors)
Artisan Business 3 Get (1) Vendor, that will hold (+50) items, for a total of (50) items for all vendors
Merchant Novice Get (2) Vendors, that will hold (+25) items, for a total of (150) items for all vendors
Merchant Management 1 Get (3) Vendors, that will hold (+25) items, for a total of (300) items for all vendors
Merchant Management 2 Get (4) Vendors, that will hold (+25) items, for a total of (500) items for all vendors
Merchant Management 3 Get (5) Vendors, that will hold (+25) items, for a total of (750) items for all vendors
Merchant Management 4 Get (6) Vendors, that will hold (+50) items, for a total of (1200) items for all vendors
Merchant Master Get (6) Vendors, that will hold (+200) items, for a total of (2400) items for all vendors
Merchant Novice Get (2) Vendors, that will hold (+25) items, for a total of (150) items for all vendors
Merchant Management 1 Get (3) Vendors, that will hold (+25) items, for a total of (300) items for all vendors
Merchant Management 2 Get (4) Vendors, that will hold (+25) items, for a total of (500) items for all vendors
Merchant Management 3 Get (5) Vendors, that will hold (+25) items, for a total of (750) items for all vendors
Merchant Management 4 Get (6) Vendors, that will hold (+50) items, for a total of (1200) items for all vendors
Merchant Master Get (6) Vendors, that will hold (+200) items, for a total of (2400) items for all vendors
Adding 2 more vendors at master would be nice as well, making master truely worth getting.
Merchant Master Get (8) Vendors, that will hold (+200) items, for a total of (3200) items for all vendors
Merchant Master Get (8) Vendors, that will hold (+200) items, for a total of (3200) items for all vendors
There should be always a 2 week rule, as players my leave on Vactions for 2 weeks and my forget. Thats why i would like to see a 14 day min before any deletions. Would not want to loose any more good players as everyone should be allowed to spend time in RL activities.
Bottom line is that 660 only helps they players selling sub standard and low quality junk as the good stuff will not be in-stock and or the price will be to high. Better to give a newbie 10 million credits then do this vendor nurf so much.
Eraint
Thu Aug 12, 2004 11:43 am
#199
Please, get rid of empty vendors and remove them from the world map.
Take away vendors from people who do not have the skill levels to own them.
Change the levels of items allowed on the vendor.
Master Merchant: 6 vendors-400 items per vendor
From this point work down until the first vender you are allowed(artisan 0-0-3-0?) and max of 75 on it. This will encourage more people to use the merchant tree. Also is similiar to other professions, until you master them, they aren't that great.
And please, please, please don't let this issue get lost in all the "jedi madness". Just looked at the update notes from TC and nothing was mentioned about changing the limits. If enough is not said or done this will be moved live and begin the fall of the crafting professions.
Take away vendors from people who do not have the skill levels to own them.
Change the levels of items allowed on the vendor.
Master Merchant: 6 vendors-400 items per vendor
From this point work down until the first vender you are allowed(artisan 0-0-3-0?) and max of 75 on it. This will encourage more people to use the merchant tree. Also is similiar to other professions, until you master them, they aren't that great.
And please, please, please don't let this issue get lost in all the "jedi madness". Just looked at the update notes from TC and nothing was mentioned about changing the limits. If enough is not said or done this will be moved live and begin the fall of the crafting professions.
BWindrunner
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:23 pm
#200
ArythR wrote:
I have posted this in another thread, but I will also post it here.
I think that 500 per vendor at Master Merchant is resonable and realistic. People that are shouting for 1000 per vendor have to realize that that number is just unrealistic. I seriously doubt that SOE will go from 110 up to 1000. I think that 500 is a fair amount for Tailors and Architects to list a decent selection of thier items. It's not a great limit, but it is something that I can *live* with.
A~
No, not very realistic at all. Prior to player cities, I was a master architect. I kept about 100 harvesters and 1000 furniture on my architect vendor and still could not keep up with demands. I spent every possible moment making new harvesters, more furniture, etc and every day I was running out of multiple items. Now I just do furniture and so only have about 500 items in it.
Currently as a master tailor, I have 600 clothing items without bio enhancements inmy clothingvendor so people can try to find something that matches their color preference and styleand about 50 bio enhanced clothes and I this is nowhere near a comprehensive collection of colors and styles.
My miscellaneous item, artisan and old items (used to be master weaponsmith so have some weapons left still) has about 300 items on it.
I have a loot vendor that I run for my guildmates who are not crafter/merchants so that one has about 400 items on it.
My resource vendor has about 120 items on it.
My food vendor is hopelessly underfilled and only has maybe 150 items on it...need to get more bio enhancements to bother making more food but when I do get more there'll probably be about 400 items in it.
When swg was designed, it was to be a 100% player driven economy. There is no way to purchase something without finding a player selling it, so having a means for the players to do that is shall I say, pretty freakin' important! If you cut the legs out of the players who sell by merchants, you are going to destroy the game economy. I cannot and will not bother to try to sell items in the bazaar because ofthe 6k cap and the only bazaar that has more than 100 items in it is Coronet City. I do not travel to Coronet if I can help it since the lag there is unbelievable and if I can't keep enough stocked items to draw people out to Moenia to visit my shop, then there's no reason for me to play.
Granted, maybe the whole issue of having mutiple vendors remaining after dropping merhcant wasn't what was intended when swg was released, but having waited over a year to address the issue, you need to consider if it's really worth wreaking havoc with people to change it to something you invision now or is it better to just leave it the way it is. Maybe if this change was done a year ago, nobody would care. But since it was a low priority item until now, you have to deal with all the people who came to expect that this is how it is, how it should stay, and who are going to be upset if it's changed.
And on the subject of merchant, why was it never coded in to check if the player had gained/lost any merchant skill and ensuing benefits? I placed a couple storehouses at merchant efficiency 0 and 4. The ones I placed a year ago at 0 efficiency cost me 100% maintenance, the ones at 4 cost me 80% maintenance. At no time when I was a master merchant did I ever receive the benefits of having it in reduced building and merchant costs. I still pay full cost for all my merchants since I did NOT take them down and replace them when I was a master. Any chances that this is going to be addressed when you do these vendor changes? If you gain a reduced maint skill, you should get all your vendors and buildings updated at the next server reset, and if you drop a reduced fee skill, you should have that reduction removed from the buildings/merchants. Maybe if being a master merchant actually gave me any tangible benefits I would have kept it instead of becoming a master tailor.
BWindrunner
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:43 pm
#201
Oh yeah, forgot to mention:
Database storage problem? Kind of brought it on themselves when they decided to have new resources spawn instead of ever just picking a set number of each type of resource and reusing them. Now you've had what? Couple thousand different resources? Couple hundred thousand soon and the number will just keep going up...
IndySWG
Thu Aug 12, 2004 1:38 pm
#202
ok seriously how many times are they going to remove part 1of this topic!?
I cant even go back and build on some of the ideas in that thread now. Bring it back!
Jonni
Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:19 pm
#203
im seriously hoping that the missing original thread is simply some catastrophic yet accidental error, if not then the devs really are asking for some verbal GBH, if it is just incompetence or computer error that has caused this thread to go missing then for gods sakes save yourselves some hassle and post to that effect...
as for a general response, i have said this before TH and ill say it again, all you need to do to keep everyone calm is to just post something like "hi guys, still havent got an answer for you as im waiting on a dev whos out of the office until monday", this kinda post may not contain all the information we want but it certainly goes a helluva long way to saying to us that this is as important to you as it is to us...just asking for some good manners (although in fairness some of the negative posts you have to put up with may preclude this sort of response you cant beat being better than the bad guys if you take my meaning)
regards
Message Edited by Jonni on 08-12-2004 10:21 PM
Redskuller
Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:20 pm
#204
I'm totaly against any limits on a vendor. I am playing as a M. DE and M. AS, I have too many resources, loots, and "factory made required" items to manage. Having the "unlimited-space" of a vendor is intergral to me being able to play as a crafter. Currently I have 6 vendors up : 4 for selling different Classes of wears and 2 for storing (1) DE items and (2) AS items.
If the DEVs would make a "crafting house/shop" that held 500-750 items and be only 4-5 lots, then the vendor nerf would not be as bad.
Greylach
Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:27 pm
#205
Simply put, storage and vendor interfaces in this game are already an absolute nightmare, and a HUGE time-sink. The proposals that SOE and our "so-called" champions are making in NO WAY help this. In order to have constructive conversation and ideas, you have to have information coming BACK.. it is a two-way street. The longer you let our feedback fall into the black void which is your responsiveness, the more upset folks get.
If the changes go into effect anywhere NEAR what they are being proposed as, me and my 3 accounts are history.
- Grey
ZabrackDimo
Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:46 pm
#206
How can you expect people to be "constructive and rational" when the proposed change is unconstructive and irrational.
If any forethought had been applied to this issue a year ago, this problem wouldn't exist today. SWG from the beginning never considered that when every single item in the game was unique (resources, loots, crafted items, etc) they would eventually hit an incredible amount of items in the database? If there was a set limit on the number of resources, say 100 different types of mythra copper, that just continually respawned then you would only have 100 different types of mythra copper for all eternity. Instead it is set for a new mythra copper every time it spawns so you end up with a million different mythra coppers eventually. How many cdef pistols are currently in the database? A million? Ten million?
Instead of approaching this issue in a way that would benefit the database problem, you choose to opt out for one that hurts and enrages the player base. Then you want the players to be understanding? If you want understanding players, then make the effort to understand why the players are responding the way they are instead of forcing an unwanted and detrimental change upon them and find a more constructive method of dealing with this issue.
Pubee
Thu Aug 12, 2004 2:56 pm
#207
I've been thinking long and hard and looking at others' suggestions and here's what i think should be done:
First off, GET RID OF MERCHANT PROFESION. It's a lousy profession. I shouldn't have to pick up a professionor another accountto sell my goods. I believe that there should be different vendors that have different limits and the vendors are earned by going up crafting skill ladders (i.e. Doctor's medice crafting). Example: get a vendor at doctor's medicine crafting 3, one at 4 andone at master doctor. Do this for every crafting profession where you can get up to 3 vendor per profession. Also give 2 for surveyors (for resource sales), and one to everyone no matter there profession (for loot and misc. stuff). The vendors' limits should be based on what the profession needs. I think for doc and CM 500is a fair number. These vendors would only allow specific items to be put up for sale on them, like only crates and pharmaceuticals for doctor vendors. Also give all the perks that merchant get like ad barking, paying maintenance w/ droids and reduced fees to smugglers. It kind of fits in w/ slicing and those poor guys deserve something.
Next, to make the game 1000% better,allow for crates to bebigger than 50 or 25 and let stuff w/ the same serial numbers be able to be stacked together, like janta blood orcrates that were already broken up. This would save so much time that would be spent searching inventory for all the same serial numbers. Being a crafter, this wouldreduce my inventory by 75% (inventory space is the problem right?). Also to complement this, Let vendors hold huge crates (1000 item crates) and have the buyer decide how many to break off and purchase. With this idea in effect,vendors would only need to hold 1 of each item possible so like 40 or 50 for doctors. Actually some stuff that takes 3 identical components you can only make 333 items because 1000 is the max amount of the component that you can make, so maybe triple the number to like 150.This allows for multiple instances of the same product that you can't make too many of and also allows for a bigger selection (different versions of the same product).
This next idea I stole. To reduce the vendor limit that tailors would be happy with, have a dye station. The station would be stocked by the tailor w/ dye and the buyer could use it for a fee to change the color of his/her clothes. This way the tailor doesn't need to sell 10 of the same item that's only differentin its color, and the buyer will be happy about choosing his/her own color. The tailor could still exercise their tailoring artistic skills by displaying outfits in their house and giving their customers ideas.
Seen this idea like a million times, but i like it. Have sheds/warehouses/whatever you want to call it. It takes up 1 lot and it's whole purpose is for storage. I say 1000 items. Also change the storage number of houses(bigger). That seems like a simple fixand I guess it has been promised for forever.
As far as limiting thevendor limitsto break up monopolies, I agree it would work, but i'm totally opposed to the idea. Until recently, I've always been a small time doctor struggling to get by. I never had any help or hand outs, and i got to where I am today one small step at a time. THAT'S WHAT AN RPG IS ABOUT. It's about paying your dues putting in tons of work to get better. It's about getting by with what little you have, striving to someday reach the top. I still have tons of goals to reach, and i don't want it to be any easier than it is. I want to earn it. The only reason i'm so attachedthis game is because of all the time I've spent building my buisness. Being where I'm at now would be meaningless if it was easy to reach.
Here's where i get a little child-like and flamey (sorry). I'm not sure what you (devs and what-not) guys are thinking. There's a gazillion posts of people that are very unhappy with the proposed changes. Lots of people (mainly the long-time supporters) are threatening to quit. I wouldn't take what they say lightly. I've wanted a second account since i started the game so i wouldn't have to pay outrageous prices for meat. I'd be able to hunt it for myself and also survey, but I just simply can't afford a second account. If the proposed changes go into effect, I couldn't sell my stuff anymore w/o a second account and there's no way i'll pay for one. I'm going to wait for the patch and hopethe right thing is done, but if not I will definetly QUIT. It's very sad to think about this because I've invested so much in this game. I take great pride in my products and i've spent countless hours to get my medines' quality at the level it is. I've only recently stopped struggling to get by, and there's still tons i want to accomplish. Many people have been on the fence about leaving SWG and this wouldn't even be a straw that would break the camel's back,it'd bean anvil.
Wargfang
Thu Aug 12, 2004 3:07 pm
#208
Im a weaponsmith, just spend forever getting smuggler. I will seriously consider quiting if this comes in as currently specified. Been crafting and selling since day 2 !