Merchant Archive
Thread: can this be addressed w/o being flamed
p4Samwise
Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:59 pm
#183
Entry: retribution
Balkstar wrote:
The less noble motivation (which is the part that makes me want to argue with you) is the drive to punish all these "scumbag" exploiters. Mind you, I'm completely in favor of halting exploits that are harming other peoples' gameplay, but I find it extremely distasteful to seek "punishment" of other playersfor its own sake. And I don't get the sense from your posts that you care at all about anyone's gameplay experience - you're motivated solely by hatred.
What you concider punishment, I concider it retribution
Function: noun
Synonyms: avengement, avenging, comeuppance, compensation, counterblow, just desserts, justice, punishment, reckoning, recompense, redress, repayment, reprisal, requital, retaliation, revanche, revenge, reward, satisfaction, vengeance, what for
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)
p4Samwise
Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:08 pm
#184
Just to add on to that: I've never seen so much outcry on any other profession board for "retribution".
Image Designers for a long time were far and away the red-headed stepchildren of SWG. In fact, they still are. In an attempt to appease them, the developers took stat migration away from the masses and made it an ID-only tool.
Did the IDs celebrate because now they were more important, and because all the people who'd thought of them as worthless now had to come begging for help with stat migration? No.
Do you think that if someone found an exploit that allowed people to migrate their stats the old way, the IDs would seek retribution in lieu of a genuine fix to their profession? Probably not. In fact, the majority of IDs, as far as I can tell from reading their boards (and I followed them intently after the revamp because I was curious to see how the changes were being received), would be very happy to see stat migration returned to the masses as it used to be, even if it gives them less "prestige" or "value" in the eyes of the powergamers.
Balkstar
Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:20 pm
#185
So I can't use connotations at all? Man, you are a tough crowd.
p4Samwise wrote:
Entry: retribution
Function: noun
Synonyms: avengement, avenging, comeuppance, compensation, counterblow, just desserts, justice, punishment, reckoning, recompense, redress, repayment, reprisal, requital, retaliation, revanche, revenge, reward, satisfaction, vengeance, what for
Source: Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.5)
Balkstar
Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:30 pm
#186
p4Samwise wrote:
Just to add on to that: I've never seen so much outcry on any other profession board for "retribution".
Image Designers for a long time were far and away the red-headed stepchildren of SWG. In fact, they still are. In an attempt to appease them, the developers took stat migration away from the masses and made it an ID-only tool.
Did the IDs celebrate because now they were more important, and because all the people who'd thought of them as worthless now had to come begging for help with stat migration? No.
Do you think that if someone found an exploit that allowed people to migrate their stats the old way, the IDs would seek retribution in lieu of a genuine fix to their profession? Probably not. In fact, the majority of IDs, as far as I can tell from reading their boards (and I followed them intently after the revamp because I was curious to see how the changes were being received), would be very happy to see stat migration returned to the masses as it used to be, even if it gives them less "prestige" or "value" in the eyes of the powergamers.
Problem was, Stat migration was never in their initial list of skills or tools that were to be exclusive domain of members of that profession. Vendors were for the Merchant profession. ID's really had no direction to go from the get-go. Merchants always had that niche to fit into, but were never allowed to fit into it due to zealous crafters.
ID's are a screwed profession, simply because there really is no need to change the day to day look of a character. Far be it for me suggest something to fix a profession other than Merchant on these boards, but wouldn't a bad hair day work to help add viability to the profession? Occasionally give a player a random hairstyle during a login. I'll tell you what, I'd be running to the next ID that I saw to fix that situation.
p4Samwise
Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:13 pm
#187
The main point I'm getting across here is that the IDs didn't react to their bad situation by lashing out at other players and seeking "punishment" or "retribution" - and they in fact are in the process of asking the developers to give stat migration BACK to the other players, even though stat migration is now part of their "tools".
I venture to guess that if you were in the same place, you'd be flinging poo and hatred at the other players for their audacity in wanting to migrate their own stats.
Songe
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:47 pm
#188
This is a poor comparison. Merchants are based around vendors, and have been from the start, when stats migration is just one of the 20 things an ID can do, and got added recently. It's like apples and oranges.
p4Samwise wrote:
Do you think that if someone found an exploit that allowed people to migrate their stats the old way, the IDs would seek retribution in lieu of a genuine fix to their profession? Probably not. In fact, the majority of IDs, as far as I can tell from reading their boards (and I followed them intently after the revamp because I was curious to see how the changes were being received), would be very happy to see stat migration returned to the masses as it used to be, even if it gives them less "prestige" or "value" in the eyes of the powergamers.
p4Samwise
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:03 pm
#190
See theabove. The actual skills aren't the important thing, the important thing is the reaction of the community.
Doc said a while back that he didn't understand why people perceive the Merchant community as beinghostile and singleminded about thepoaching issue. I'm explaining. No other community has ever expressed as much hatred as what I've seen on these boards. Not even the Bria forum. 
Message Edited by p4Samwise on 06-14-2004 06:16 PM
Songe
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:14 pm
#191
Hmm I can't think of any other profession thatpeople took advantageof without spending the points. That might be why.
p4Samwise
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:19 pm
#192
Songe wrote:
Hmm I can't think of any other profession thatpeople took advantageof without spending the points. That might be why.
Sure there are. People buy alts and run entertainer buffbots so that they don't need to go interact with real entertainers, or spend skill points in an entertainer profession themselves to buff their guildmates. Many people do the same thing with doctors, crafting professions and even merchant - have a "mule" that exists solely to effectively give them more skill points. The only difference between them and "poachers" is that buying alt accounts to run "mules" puts more money into SOE's pockets - the overall deleterious effect on the profession is no different.
Songe
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:26 pm
#193
Well I prefer people doing that than those who want to have everything for free on one account without wanting to spend extra money for another account... Sorry. At least the people with 2 accounts don't come whining here on the forums about how useless the profession is - and that is a pretty bad deleterious effect on the profession don't you think?
p4Samwise
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:29 pm
#194
Songe wrote:
Well I prefer people doing that than those who want to have everything for free on one account without wanting to spend extra money for another account... Sorry. At least the people with 2 accounts don't come whining here on the forums about how useless the profession is - and that is a pretty bad deleterious effect on the profession don't you think?
How do you know it's not the people with 2 accounts? According to this week'spoll, the average person on these boards has at least 2 accounts.
And how does someone shelling out an extra $15/month make your gameplay any better than someone who's doing the same thing with one account? I'm going to say not at all.
This reinforces my belief that you're focused more on punishment than you are on improving the game.
Songe
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:39 pm
#195
I'm focussed on both. I'm not denying that I dislike the fact that some people are cheating and getting more out of their characters than those who are not. We have 250 points per character, having people taking advantage of 100 more points bothers me. If they want to spend $15 more each month it's fine by me, but there is no reason why someone should have the equivalent of 350 points when others have to do with 250. Call it 'punishment' if you really want to use negative words, I would just say that I want things to be fair.
Now, just because some of us want things to be fair for everyone (and particularly for merchants who do spend those 100 points), doesn't necessarily mean that we don't also want the game to improve. If you look around, you will see that most of us are also giving ideas and participating actively on the threads about merchant improvement.