Merchant Archive
Thread: can this be addressed w/o being flamed
theonebountyhunter
Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:35 am
#170
I swear I think merchants are also nascar drivers they just love going round and round....
lol I can't believe that this thread is still going.
To the Eclipse power merchant, just consider your self lucky that your only item you have to consern yourself with is a final resellable item. it requires no facotry runs, no resources, or anything of the sort.
You mine it, list it on a vendor, it sells or it doesn't
Sometimes I think I should have stuck with my 18 fusions as a source of income and not switched to armorsmith.
when you are a crafter of any sort you are going to find your best way possible to store items.
Vendors were not made for storage, well niether were input hoppers of factories, but lot for lot factories are your best storage option.
Some people say list your resources for what you it would take for you to part with them.
Say you can buy this naboo fiberplast for 10cpu, but you don't need to sell it but if u had to you would sell it at 25cpu. So you price it at 25cpu. Well I don't know too many people that are going to spend 25cpu when you can buy it for 10cpu. So the stuff doesn't sell and your forced to relist it.
Either way this subject has been beaten to death. Lets review what we have learned:
1.) No one likes players who drop merchant but keep the vendors.
2.) Master Merchants love to continue to argue the same point all day long.
3.) Players that use vendors, even if they have the skill points, as storage are the Devil.
4.) This thread will never end.
5.) Merchant forum is filled with more hate and anger then any other board
6.) Storage will always be a problem in this game.
7/) The Dev's that make decisions don't actually play the game.
lol I can't believe that this thread is still going.
To the Eclipse power merchant, just consider your self lucky that your only item you have to consern yourself with is a final resellable item. it requires no facotry runs, no resources, or anything of the sort.
You mine it, list it on a vendor, it sells or it doesn't
Sometimes I think I should have stuck with my 18 fusions as a source of income and not switched to armorsmith.
when you are a crafter of any sort you are going to find your best way possible to store items.
Vendors were not made for storage, well niether were input hoppers of factories, but lot for lot factories are your best storage option.
Some people say list your resources for what you it would take for you to part with them.
Say you can buy this naboo fiberplast for 10cpu, but you don't need to sell it but if u had to you would sell it at 25cpu. So you price it at 25cpu. Well I don't know too many people that are going to spend 25cpu when you can buy it for 10cpu. So the stuff doesn't sell and your forced to relist it.
Either way this subject has been beaten to death. Lets review what we have learned:
1.) No one likes players who drop merchant but keep the vendors.
2.) Master Merchants love to continue to argue the same point all day long.
3.) Players that use vendors, even if they have the skill points, as storage are the Devil.
4.) This thread will never end.
5.) Merchant forum is filled with more hate and anger then any other board
6.) Storage will always be a problem in this game.
7/) The Dev's that make decisions don't actually play the game.
p4Samwise
Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:36 am
#171
DocSavag wrote:
My only issue is with the perception that somehow this isn't a priority for us.
That perception comes from two things:
1) "Fix poaching" is number one on your issue list for the devs. If they fix ONE item on that list in the near future, (which there's a good chance of), odds are that will be the one they fix. They will then pat themselves on the back and ignore merchant entirely for at least another few months until the prophesied "vendor revamp".
2) Every post that suggests that there are deeper problems with the merchant class than poaching, or that fixes to those problems should be made in parallel with fixing poaching, rather than months later, is met with flames, egg-throwing, and jihad.
DingoBoi
Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:02 am
#172
theonebountyhunter wrote:
Either way this subject has been beaten to death. Lets review what we have learned:
1.) No one likes players who drop merchant but keep the vendors.
2.) Master Merchants love to continue to argue the same point all day long.
3.) Players that use vendors, even if they have the skill points, as storage are the Devil.
4.) This thread will never end.
5.) Merchant forum is filled with more hate and anger then any other board
6.) Storage will always be a problem in this game.
7/) The Dev's that make decisions don't actually play the game.
/lol
/omelletes for everyone!
Amanda143
Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:38 pm
#173
Brutas, I feel your pain. I'm a artisan/tailor/architect and I have so much stuff its not even funny. Luckily for me tho, my husband and I both have our own account plus one. WE have many houses and I also use my 5 factories! As someone suggested on page 1, you can always list the items for above market value. If they get bought then its really no big deal. I think limiting the vendors to 150 items per will severly hurt the economy and only make storage worse! I have been master merchant many times but I could really care less what someone else does with their skills. To each his own I always say. Good luck tho, maybe you should get an alt. lol
Bermag
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:08 am
#174
I don't think that storage on vendors is really that a big problem. Let take a look at numbers:
- There are 388k vendors in toal on all vendors
- Let say 1/5 of them are used for storage (that is probably a high figure)
-Let say each "storage" vendors stores 1000 items (I think that is also a very high figure)
That is 78k x 1000 items= 78 million items. Let say you need 1k data for each item (that is probably high). Storage size is then 78 GB
Not that much really. I know many people who have more mp3 and films on their local disk than that.
And that is a total of all servers. really no need from a technical point to have one database server for all vendors and instead use on for each galaxy (probably the way it is setup). The problems we had wioth database is probably more a load thing (to many concurrent requests) but I have not seen any problems for a long time.
---
It is correct in a way that every use that is not intended by devs is an exploit. But is the way they have intended things really correct. They seem to have some very strange ideas about economy (like the "monopoly" comments).
Is AFK entertainer, auto-buffers intended? Most certainly not. But having them make gameplay more fun since we if they were not there we had to have even more down time tahn we have today.
I don't think that it is possible to control that people use their vendors for storage other than making it less attractive to do so. I think the best solution is to increase NORMAL storage.
MrThallid
Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:16 am
#175
I think the issue here is that DEVs do not see item storage as a game problem, more of a player perception problem.
Objects that need to be rendered induce lag. Period. The more items, the heavier the lag. How do we try to keep the game fun, interesting, fairly even, and with as little lag as possible? Limit item storage.
A crafter needs millions of resources andmillions of componenets to sell a couple thousand of completed items. Here's the catch... you are not supposed to be able to create/manufacture thousands of items at a time. Why? It induces lag. It unbalances the economy.
Cross server lot trading is also a problem. More items exist on the servers (harvestors/houses) then there should be. Which allow the big crafters to harvest and store their millions of units. Which allow them to manufacture and sell their thousands of end units.
What should the economy environment have looked like? Instead of 5 mastercrafters of the different professions being the cream of the crop selling 40 suits of composite, or crates of phat weaps, you would have had 50 master crafters selling 10 a week.
Well, that's how I see it, anyway 
Balkstar
Mon Jun 14, 2004 10:40 am
#176
p4Samwise wrote:
That perception comes from two things:
2) Every post that suggests that there are deeper problems with the merchant class than poaching, or that fixes to those problems should be made in parallel with fixing poaching, rather than months later, is met with flames, egg-throwing, and jihad.
The problem has always been when players have stated that the Merchant profession needed a revamp, theyhave talked about it in away such that extra goodies should be added INSTEAD of fixing vendor poaching. The 2 were never added together in the same posting. I know it took you quite a while to warm up to the idea the the poach itself is very damaging, but you were a big proponent of additions to the profession instead of fixing the bug.
I am still of a mind that if that is fixed completely, the merchant profession will indeed see the light of day. The extras everyone keeps talking about is just fluff, meant to pasify us and make us happy little players. If they want to do that to us, fine, but fix the core problem first and foremost. That means end vendor poaching once and for all.
Songe
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:26 am
#177
A few comments from reading the last page...
1 - who cares about numbers and statistics. It doesn't take much guess at all to see that people who are currently using vendors without the skills are taking sales from players who have the skills. Whether it's me or someone else, they are. If there wasn't any bug, yes maybe those people would have another account and sell things anyway, if if if... We won't go anywhere with 'ifs', the only thing that is certain is that there are vendors that are not legitimate making sales.
2 - is it wrong from merchants to ask for poached vendors to be fixed first... Well first, it's arguable that it's our priority... Second... If I get tospend the points and you don't, I really hope you won't get all the advantages of MY profession without spending any point for it. Call me greedy and selfish if you want. Third... If they fix poached vendors maybe people will stop coming here to whine about how useless our profession is. It's beyond me that people actually bother getting the skill points the first time if it's so useless.
Message Edited by Songe on 06-14-2004 02:27 PM
Scoooter
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:46 am
#178
Exactly
Songe wrote:
A few comments from reading the last page...
1 - who cares about numbers and statistics. It doesn't take much guess at all to see that people who are currently using vendors without the skills are taking sales from players who have the skills. Whether it's me or someone else, they are. If there wasn't any bug, yes maybe those people would have another account and sell things anyway, if if if... We won't go anywhere with 'ifs', the only thing that is certain is that there are vendors that are not legitimate making sales.
Yes all the speculation is meaningless. Especially on vendor storage. After this fix the devs will monitor and determine if further changes are needed to correct item database issues and speculation on whether people would get alts is just that speculation.
2 - is it wrong from merchants to ask for poached vendors to be fixed first... Well first, it's arguable that it's our priority... Second... If I get tospend the points and you don't, I really hope you won't get all the advantages of MY profession without spending any point for it. Call me greedy and selfish if you want. Third... If they fix poached vendors maybe people will stop coming here to whine about how useless our profession is. It's beyond me that people actually bother getting the skill points the first time if it's so useless.
Well lets face it Merchant is not a legitimate profession without the fix. Shame on the devs for leaving a profession in this state for so long. Merchants were designed to have a place in the community and all that leaving this bug in there was make the perception that merchant was not a "real" profession that had no community use.
Message Edited by Songe on 06-14-2004 02:27 PM
Scoooter
Mon Jun 14, 2004 11:47 am
#179
Scoooter wrote:
Exactly
Songe wrote:
A few comments from reading the last page...
1 - who cares about numbers and statistics. It doesn't take much guess at all to see that people who are currently using vendors without the skills are taking sales from players who have the skills. Whether it's me or someone else, they are. If there wasn't any bug, yes maybe those people would have another account and sell things anyway, if if if... We won't go anywhere with 'ifs', the only thing that is certain is that there are vendors that are not legitimate making sales.
Yes all the speculation is meaningless. Especially on vendor storage. After this fix the devs will monitor and determine if further changes are needed to correct item database issues and speculation on whether people would get alts is just that speculation.
2 - is it wrong from merchants to ask for poached vendors to be fixed first... Well first, it's arguable that it's our priority... Second... If I get tospend the points and you don't, I really hope you won't get all the advantages of MY profession without spending any point for it. Call me greedy and selfish if you want. Third... If they fix poached vendors maybe people will stop coming here to whine about how useless our profession is. It's beyond me that people actually bother getting the skill points the first time if it's so useless.
Well lets face it Merchant is not a legitimate profession without the fix. Shame on the devs for leaving a profession in this state for so long. Merchants were designed to have a place in the community and all that leaving this bug in there was make the perception that merchant was not a "real" profession that had no community use.
Message Edited by Songe on 06-14-2004 02:27 PM
Crap I agree with Songe. How did that happen..... 
lol
SargusQuintek
Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:16 pm
#180
There may be alot of threads on this issue because alot of people do abuse the system. I can't say for sure without seeing some info on it. There could be various reasons why people complain. I think one thing is for certain if there are 10 threads on it and it does get changed there are going to be alot of mad players. SOE might be afraid to make the change after letting it go for so long. I feel any change they make is not going to make the people here happy if there are as many poachers as suggested. SOE can't afford to lose customers over a game mechanic like this. They are going to appease these people somehow which is going to be an attempt at a happy medium between the poachers and the merchants.
p4Samwise
Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:20 pm
#181
Songe wrote:
And you think that saying that kind of thing doesn't give us the impression that you are solely motivated by hatred? Because you don't agree with people doesn't give you the right to blame their opinion on hatred.
Any suggestion or argument I put forth on game design is motivated by the desire to improve the overall game experience for all players.
Any counter-argument I make to refute a particular point is founded on logic rather than emotional outbursts.
And I just explained exactly why I characterize the motivations of several people on these boards as "hatred". It had nothing to do with whether I agree or disagree with their basic position - in fact, as I just explained, I agree with them on some points. It's their priorities and motivations that I question.
If you'd like specific quotes that demonstrate the hostility that I see on the Merchant boards from this particular subset (and really, they're a minority, but they are an extremely vocal minority)of Merchants, I'd be happy to bring some up.
Scoooter
Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:27 pm
#182
Songe wrote:
Well as I said, the only reason it is considered by some asthe biggest problem is that 1) because of it people keep saying that the profession is useless, which makes it hard to ask for any improvement, 2) people keep coming here to whine about the fact that poaching will be fixed, in 10 different threads in case we didn't get it the first time, so that it's the only thing we see when we read the forums.
Dang it Songe quit making me agree with you.
He is exactly correct. Without this fix the merchant profession will always be considered useless and not legitimized as a true profession. As it sits now most people view it as the profession that people take and drop once they get their vendors.
The dev's will not fix any other issue in merchant until the profession is percieved to be legitimate. Lets face it they have other priorities.
Once it is a legitimized profession then there will be the backing for change, and this fix legitimizes merchant. Which is why it should have been done long ago and we could be talking now about new things for merchant instead of fixing a bug that should have never been there.