Merchant Archive
Thread: Merchant Item Limits Focus Thread: Please try to be constructive and rational (Pt 2)
yeskatribe
Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:27 pm
#170
I have a master doc/master artisan and a bit of merchant.
I make probably the best powerups on my server (33 max dmg 16 min dmg +1 or 2 other stats) and i make 100 crates of 10 x 4 factories. and they go non stop.
i have between 400-1500 crates of powerups mele and ranged on each of my vendors not to mention my vehicals and repair kits vendors.
I have about 25-110 sales a day.
Talk about NERFING me!!!! geeez.
i suggest this DEVS! Leave this alone you need to focus on other area of the game and not nerf this one.
If the devs come to the conclusion that they need to nerf merchant then do this please:
make it so your maximum limit for items (crates, backpacks, or single items) limit around 1500-2000 per vendor.
unless you increase the limit of items a house can hold, like 300 for a small house 450 med house and 600 for a large house. Increase the capacity of factories so the input output hoppers can hold 300-500 items. Then design an interface that allows us to move the items from the factories to the vendor directly from the factory. While were at it modify the stock room so it can hold (if the limit is set to 100-300) tripple the number of items the vendor can sell for restock purposes. also as requested in the forum for merchants @ fan fair a restock button!
not to flame the devs but a player based game/economy is a vary dangerous aspect to play around with. Just like RL economy when intrest rates are raised or lowerd you can see the markets reaction:
Gentilmen your about to raise the intrest rate from 1% to 15%. Or worse yet your about to take us off the gold standard and place us on the oil standard!
Thanks in advance for reading this and i hope this proposed change never comes to pass.
Wargassm
Master Artisan Master Doc
Lowca
worm3rd
Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:41 pm
#171
I agree completely with VarnaxDespin. The time involved in making and managing those items is limit enough. For the pure crafter putting a limit on vendor items puts a greater limit on creativity and availability to other players.
Fix what needs to be fixed, such as the vendor without skill bug and the empty registered vendor problem. Please leave the rest alone.
CharmingTiva
Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:33 pm
#172
All I can say is, Thanks again SOE. I used to be a Dancer, from literally day 1 of SWG. As of late Ents have been sorely hosed over with the onset of buff bots. So, I decide to drop Dance and try my hand at Merchant/Tailor. Two skills I find I adore. Now Merchant is getting hosed.
I could understand this nerf if SWG was like other games and gave us VERY limited options for clothing, weapons, armor etc. But, they gave us a very large selection of items we can and do create, and in multipul ways. As just Tailor for a crafting skill, theres NO WAY I can stock so few items and give my customers the differant tastes in styles they like. Its Impossible. I could MAYBE make one of each item and thats it. And SOE, I do play daily and this change will still hurt my business badly. I really do feel bad for those dedicated crafters who have been making items for a year and have chosen more then one crafting skill. WHEN this nerf hits, not if because SOE doesn't seem to belistening to there thousands of merchants, we'll have to make lesser quality items out of our limited pack space on the fly. Oh what fun!
Brilyn
Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:38 pm
#173
< STANDARDIZE THE RESOURCES!!!
Keep All the subcatagories of resources, but let there be only one or two of each. That way, there is a low, middle and high grade of something, instead of finding 1200 different kinds of a single type of resource. I don't know how many times I've gone into one of my factories and found small ammounts of a resource that I can no longer use. >
Um... Back off from my crafting?
90% of the resources ARE graded. In 7 grades, actually.
The complexity of crafting in this game (well, for some professions) is, imo, possibly the best thing about it.
It's got the best crafting system of any game that I've played or heard of. And I've played quite a few, and heard of a lot.
pTemp
Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:53 pm
#174
I don't mind the item limit if the devs can come up with a way for looking into a container (eg. backpack) that's listed on a vendor. This way, I could package my furniture (as my alt) in a backpack and sell them at a slightly higher premium. This also eliminate the chance of people scamming using backpacks.
maloso
Wed Aug 11, 2004 10:57 pm
#175
DocSavag wrote:
I am researching what happened to the other thread. Please post your suggestions and counter proposals to the item limits here.
Please try to keep the flame to a minimum. I understand you are angry but try to remained focused on the goal which is to prevent the item limits from going into production at a level that will not allow us to do business in an efficient and reasonable manner.
I'll tell you what happened it got deleted. Since the devs don't want to ever hear anything from anyone about the crap they do to us. They are now nerfing merchant to help make database room for thier expansion they are shoving down our throat. SPEND THE MONEY YOU CHARGE US AND BUY SOME RAM. So we don't lag everywhere and you don't have to screw a already pointless profession.
Okeefe
Wed Aug 11, 2004 11:53 pm
#176
The problem, as I see it is that the devs built a commerce sytem, but gave us no tools, or any sinks for unwanted items.
For tools we don't need a 30 day time limit on items, we need a timer telling us how long each item has been on the vendor, and the ability to reprice or mark 'on sale' items as they get stale. This alone would allow merchants to differentiate and take measures to keep stock new and fresh.
We also need a 'sink' to get rid of old items, particularly resources. There need to be Imperial and Rebel buyers (NPCs) that buy any resource at 1cr/un, just so we have aplace to get rid of older resources rather than keeping them until they sell.If some variation of this can be devised for other comodities, that would be great. Maybe with lower buying prices when lots of people are selling and higher when people are not disposing of many items this way, but always low enough to make this the last resort of any merchant and a way to get rid of stale inventory.
Another innovation, for resources, would be a special type of vendor that allow the merchant to list each resource IN ONE STACK of 1-1000K where the merchant can post a number of prices based on quantity, and the buyer can buy whatever amount he wants from that one stack.
ie: Joe WS goes into Vendor X to buy Irolunn gas, the vendor has 495,384 units of gas at 5cr/un for <1000 units, 4cr/un for 1000-10000 units, 3cr/un for 10000-50000 units, and 2cr/un for 50K and up.
This change alone would seriously reduce the number of 'stacks' on resource vendors.
With these changes, a300-500 cap on items per vendor would not be as much of a problem
Numen
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:25 am
#177
JudoKnight wrote:
I would also propose, they FIX the bug with the maintenance. No maintenance on a vendor and it goes poof. This would help the empty vendors.
They would have to fix the email as well then. I only realized that I was low on maintenance because a customer said they couldn't access the vendor. It appeared that it went at least 5 days without maintenance and not a single email.
2 Issues that I see with the caps.
1) I need to spread my current items over 2-3 times as many vendors. This leads to even longer lists of vendors in Ctrl-V. So I don't really care about the total number of items I can stock on 6 vendors. 6 vendors shouldn't be required for 1 crafting profession. 6 vendors should be required for merchants that are selling multiple peoples items.
2) Due to number one, that bare minimum for any non master I think should be 300 per vendor. I think 400-500 is a lot more reasonsable. I know I could live with 300, but I also know I stock a lot less than some other professions.
I still think aggrogate is the best way. This probably won't happen because of techincal difficulties. So how about this option. I stated this in the last thread that seems to be gone now as well.
Lets assume you have 6 vendors and can put 1000 total on all. If you only put up 2 vendors though, you should be allowed to do 500 on each. This is different than aggrogate because you would be able to do 750 and 250 there, this way you can't. If you have 3, then 334 limit on each. This would allow for people to place one, put 1000 up, place a second put 500 on that and so on. I really don't see that being very explotiable though. They still can't stock more until the vendor goes under the limit.
MrElmar
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:27 am
#178
>Being a non-artisan-based crafting class, the doctor you
>used as an example does have to spend 24 skill points to
>get a chunky vendor at business 3. You'd think they
>could get more than 50 item slots on that vendor for
>their investment
let me first say that i can appreciate your point as my wife is a master doc herself. however, i would have to argue that novice merchant and above should indeed have a considerable increase in their allowed stock and vendors (this part of course they already do) over those with only business 3. to allow anything less is to void the purpose of the merchant class beyond having more vendors.
now, not to discredit your thought here as it is a valid one, i think there is too little reliance on merchant classes at this time. currently for the obvious reason that vendors stick around when skills are dropped .. however, these proposed changes 'should' force more of a reliance on merchant classes by the crafting classes (artisan based or not) in order to offer a wider selection of their crafted goods at one time on a vendor. this would finally allow a true supplier/retailer scenario to almost be a necessity to have large amounts of goods available or for the player to have dedicated themselves to merchant skills as well as crafting (or medical
) skills in order to accomplish this without the assistance of others.
now i can see an argument being formed up by the 'don't tell me how to play my game' folks that this will force them to play a certain way (with others vs. solo / craft vs. combat) in order to have a good selection available. and to a certain extent their point is valid here. however i would have to point out the fact that those that prefer to play alone or be self-sufficient already have to make sacrifices to their template to at least attempt to accomplish this.
i rely on doctors and rangers all the time in order to acquire my needed resources. the supplier/merchant model is no different .. in both cases you (the player) have the option not to get the help from others to accomplish your goals. but your success rate will be considerably less and that, in my opinion, makes sense. honestly i feel that no one should have the ability to be everything they need to be wholey self sufficient on all fronts in a game of this scope. reliance on others to one degree or another be it directly or indirectly (such as a sale to a perfect stranger) is the nature of an interactive environment. and without trying to read into the MMORPG definition (as that seems to irk the hyper sensitive) if you don't like to play with others why would you play a game you should know may require you to do so?
>used as an example does have to spend 24 skill points to
>get a chunky vendor at business 3. You'd think they
>could get more than 50 item slots on that vendor for
>their investment
let me first say that i can appreciate your point as my wife is a master doc herself. however, i would have to argue that novice merchant and above should indeed have a considerable increase in their allowed stock and vendors (this part of course they already do) over those with only business 3. to allow anything less is to void the purpose of the merchant class beyond having more vendors.
now, not to discredit your thought here as it is a valid one, i think there is too little reliance on merchant classes at this time. currently for the obvious reason that vendors stick around when skills are dropped .. however, these proposed changes 'should' force more of a reliance on merchant classes by the crafting classes (artisan based or not) in order to offer a wider selection of their crafted goods at one time on a vendor. this would finally allow a true supplier/retailer scenario to almost be a necessity to have large amounts of goods available or for the player to have dedicated themselves to merchant skills as well as crafting (or medical
) skills in order to accomplish this without the assistance of others.now i can see an argument being formed up by the 'don't tell me how to play my game' folks that this will force them to play a certain way (with others vs. solo / craft vs. combat) in order to have a good selection available. and to a certain extent their point is valid here. however i would have to point out the fact that those that prefer to play alone or be self-sufficient already have to make sacrifices to their template to at least attempt to accomplish this.
i rely on doctors and rangers all the time in order to acquire my needed resources. the supplier/merchant model is no different .. in both cases you (the player) have the option not to get the help from others to accomplish your goals. but your success rate will be considerably less and that, in my opinion, makes sense. honestly i feel that no one should have the ability to be everything they need to be wholey self sufficient on all fronts in a game of this scope. reliance on others to one degree or another be it directly or indirectly (such as a sale to a perfect stranger) is the nature of an interactive environment. and without trying to read into the MMORPG definition (as that seems to irk the hyper sensitive) if you don't like to play with others why would you play a game you should know may require you to do so?
MrElmar
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:31 am
#179
>I was thinking of the community backlash when the crafting
>experimenting changes went in, they sure broke thier necks
>to get that changed back. Show your outrage, make your
>threats, because in the real world people who get ugly get
>results.
with all due respect, or they just get their accounts cancelled
>experimenting changes went in, they sure broke thier necks
>to get that changed back. Show your outrage, make your
>threats, because in the real world people who get ugly get
>results.
with all due respect, or they just get their accounts cancelled
LadyGrey
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:47 am
#180
Another foolish suggestion, because I really don't believe that it will change anything:
When we create a vendor, let us have a choice between two types of vendors. One vendor has virtually unlimited items, but has a cap on the total value of the items that they carry. The other type of vendor has a cap on the number of items it can carry, but the items can have any price put on them.
This accomplishes two things: 1) It allows a vendor to be created to hold low-priced expendable items which everyone seems to need on occasion (droid batteries, power-ups, single stims, etc.), and 2) It allows a vendor to be created to hold high-priced long-term items.
Most good merchants have both types of goods on their vendor. For this plan to work, they really need to be able to put down two vendors. This could be accomplished with the artisan vendor from Business III, and an additional vendor given to any elite master crafter.
In essense, the vendor that has a cap on the total value of the items would be limited, in that if you sell everything at one credit, then a cap of 2 million credits would limit it to 2 million items. But if you look at what the normal low-priced items sell for, a cap of 5 million credits, and selling crates of cloth at 2500 credits each, would only give you 2000 items. And linked with a second vendor that could sell at a higher price, but be limited to perhaps 450 items, would give a definite limit to the database.
This way you give merchants/crafters a choice of how to sell, without having to kill the economy, and perhaps helping out the poor database.
[Please don't get hung up on the numbers I am using, they are just for illustration, and not intended to be suggestions for what to actually use in the game]
Message Edited by LadyGrey on 08-11-2004 01:52 PM
MilannaSati
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:51 am
#181
LadyGrey, you are the voice of reason and sanity. I always look forward to reading your posts, and the devs should too.
LadyGrey
Thu Aug 12, 2004 12:53 am
#182
MilannaSati wrote:
LadyGrey, you are the voice of reason and sanity. I always look forward to reading your posts, and the devs should too.
hehe. I'm going to print this out and frame it.
**blush**