Merchant Archive
Thread: can this be addressed w/o being flamed
Songe
Wed Jun 09, 2004 8:21 pm
#144
Didn't have the choice, repairing them was bugged as well. For the rest... If after reading the dozens of threads on the forum you really have no idea, I can't help you.
BountyBlunter
Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:20 am
#145
There ya go.
SargusQuintek wrote:
What?! You mean you exploited to repair your vehicle and denied some master artisan the use of his skills to make you a new one? So now people can pick and choose which exploits to take advantage of? So hypicritical. I would bet every single player in this game has used some exploit to get ahead, either knowingly or unknowingly. If you have, you have no right what-so-ever to come in here and bash a person for using the vendor exploit. A sin is a sin no matter how it is dressed.
I will say this again for those who have not yet read before, I have the merchant ability. All my vendors are legal. However, I will come here over and over and defend the use of the vendors as they exist. Someone tried to show me that people abusing this technique is actually hurting their business. It was a very poor explaination which basically was a "because I say it does" answer. Now someone with some intelligence please sit down and think out a good explaination of how someone vendor poaching is ruiing your game play. Convince me to stop defending this tactic.
MasterJian
Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:27 am
#146
BountyBlunter wrote:There ya go.
SargusQuintek wrote:What?! You mean you exploited to repair your vehicle and denied some master artisan the use of his skills to make you a new one? So now people can pick and choose which exploits to take advantage of? So hypicritical. I would bet every single player in this game has used some exploit to get ahead, either knowingly or unknowingly. If you have, you have no right what-so-ever to come in here and bash a person for using the vendor exploit. A sin is a sin no matter how it is dressed.I will say this again for those who have not yet read before, I have the merchant ability. All my vendors are legal. However, I will come here over and over and defend the use of the vendors as they exist. Someone tried to show me that people abusing this technique is actually hurting their business. It was a very poor explaination which basically was a "because I say it does" answer. Now someone with some intelligence please sit down and think out a good explaination of how someone vendor poaching is ruiing your game play. Convince me to stop defending this tactic.
LOL Hoz!
SargusQuintek
Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:29 am
#147
That isn't a convincing argument for me. The reason being is my standpoint has always been that if it is in the game then it can be used. I have posted on this before and that will always be my standpoint. The vendor issue is a known issue. It has been since game launch. Our guild mates knew about it from the first moment that vendors could be placed. It has existed all this time with no attention or fixes. It is my opinion that if a bug is known about and the DEVs do not fix it then it is not important enough an issue for me to not use it.
BTW I did not say I was not a sinner 
However, it seems many of you will not admit to it and are just willing to bash people for using exploits when you know good and well all of you have as well. Don't give me the excuse that you could not fix your bike the proper way. If you felt that strongly about not using exploits you would have kept fixing it the proper way each time until it took. You see, I didn't know about this bug for a long time and always fixed mine the proper way. I never had the problem you mention happen often. It did on occasion but not enough that you could justify your actions with your self-righteous attitude.
However, it seems many of you will not admit to it and are just willing to bash people for using exploits when you know good and well all of you have as well. Don't give me the excuse that you could not fix your bike the proper way. If you felt that strongly about not using exploits you would have kept fixing it the proper way each time until it took. You see, I didn't know about this bug for a long time and always fixed mine the proper way. I never had the problem you mention happen often. It did on occasion but not enough that you could justify your actions with your self-righteous attitude.So before any of you post on another person using an exploit, you need to first think about all the ones you used and ask yourself if you are really any better than those that you bash. There is nothing wrong with coming here and wanting a bug changed. It is when you post how awful a person is using an exploit and then ridicule them for it. That is very hypocritical.
lisasdarren
Thu Jun 10, 2004 3:42 am
#148
SargusQuintek wrote:
That isn't a convincing argument for me. The reason being is my standpoint has always been that if it is in the game then it can be used. I have posted on this before and that will always be my standpoint. The vendor issue is a known issue. It has been since game launch. Our guild mates knew about it from the first moment that vendors could be placed. It has existed all this time with no attention or fixes. It is my opinion that if a bug is known about and the DEVs do not fix it then it is not important enough an issue for me to not use it.
What it comes down to is a number of things, is the exploit serious, is it hurting other people, have the Devs stated that it is okay to do this etc. But what it really comes down to is conscience, how much cheating of the system does your conscience let you get away with.
Most of the bigger exploits are things that are clearly not "as intended" and as such taking advantage of them is cheating to some degree. How much cheating are you willing to do? Thats up to you.
DragonScout
Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:07 am
#149
lol. how much cheating you care to do.. well.. if you are cheating.. that implies you are trying to 'win'.. and since in an online multiplayer game, you cannot 'win'... it can't really be classified as cheating.
As far as vendor poaching. it really isn't an issue whether people do it or not. It has been around forever and the DEVs haven't done anything about it. Either through lack of the time to really sit down and fix something that is very minor to the overall scheme of the game, or through lack of an easy fix that would actually work without completely rewriting vendors as they are and without adding serious bugs that would have major portions of the customer base complaining -- ie, problems with legit vendors poofing.
In the end, it will eventually get fixed. Does it do any good to whine and complain about how much it is supposedly hurting merchants -- individually or as a profession? not really. It is a known issue, and is obviously not something they consider bad enough on the scale of 'does it hurt the overall game, or not?" because if it was, they would have officially declared it an exploit and started banning people that did it. But they haven't. So it is just something they probably sigh about and mutter how it is on thier to-do-lists and then they go on to things that affect the majority of their customer base -- which is the most important thing to a profit based game run by a big time corporation.
It is sad, but I would bet it is true. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if they are regretting ever letting it make it into the live version of the game, instead of removing it like the miner profession.
As far as vendor poaching. it really isn't an issue whether people do it or not. It has been around forever and the DEVs haven't done anything about it. Either through lack of the time to really sit down and fix something that is very minor to the overall scheme of the game, or through lack of an easy fix that would actually work without completely rewriting vendors as they are and without adding serious bugs that would have major portions of the customer base complaining -- ie, problems with legit vendors poofing.
In the end, it will eventually get fixed. Does it do any good to whine and complain about how much it is supposedly hurting merchants -- individually or as a profession? not really. It is a known issue, and is obviously not something they consider bad enough on the scale of 'does it hurt the overall game, or not?" because if it was, they would have officially declared it an exploit and started banning people that did it. But they haven't. So it is just something they probably sigh about and mutter how it is on thier to-do-lists and then they go on to things that affect the majority of their customer base -- which is the most important thing to a profit based game run by a big time corporation.
It is sad, but I would bet it is true. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if they are regretting ever letting it make it into the live version of the game, instead of removing it like the miner profession.
DocSavag
Thu Jun 10, 2004 4:48 am
#150
DragonScout wrote:
lol. how much cheating you care to do.. well.. if you are cheating.. that implies you are trying to 'win'.. and since in an online multiplayer game, you cannot 'win'... it can't really be classified as cheating.
As far as vendor poaching. it really isn't an issue whether people do it or not. It has been around forever and the DEVs haven't done anything about it. Either through lack of the time to really sit down and fix something that is very minor to the overall scheme of the game, or through lack of an easy fix that would actually work without completely rewriting vendors as they are and without adding serious bugs that would have major portions of the customer base complaining -- ie, problems with legit vendors poofing.
In the end, it will eventually get fixed. Does it do any good to whine and complain about how much it is supposedly hurting merchants -- individually or as a profession? not really. It is a known issue, and is obviously not something they consider bad enough on the scale of 'does it hurt the overall game, or not?" because if it was, they would have officially declared it an exploit and started banning people that did it. But they haven't. So it is just something they probably sigh about and mutter how it is on thier to-do-lists and then they go on to things that affect the majority of their customer base -- which is the most important thing to a profit based game run by a big time corporation.
It is sad, but I would bet it is true. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if they are regretting ever letting it make it into the live version of the game, instead of removing it like the miner profession.
I haven't noticed any remorse on the Devs part when we've talked about it. Except that it still exists.
Thre wouldn't be anywhere near the amount of "whining" about this issue if we weren't bombarded by people coming to this forum demanding that we leave it alone so they can keep their vendors without having to get skills for them. It is only one of a list of 20 or so major things we would like to see done in the game. Many of us do feel it is important. We do feel it has an impact on our gameplay and that it does negatively impact the economy of the game as a whole.
I'm far less concerned about labeling it an exploit or not an exploit. That argeument really gets you no where. I have three independant confirmations that this will be fixed. Two of them are quotable the other isn't. Both Tunderheart and GreenMarine have stated publically that this situation isn't what was intended for the merchant profession and that it will be changed. How one can claim that anything that isn't fixed in the game by now isn't important is beyond me..they must not play Squad Leaders, Smugglers, or Rangers that is for sure.
BountyBlunter
Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:02 am
#151
Something sprung to mind about this type of thinking...
SargusQuintek wrote:
A sin is a sin no matter how it is dressed.
And shortly after....
That isn't a convincing argument for me. The reason being is my standpoint has always been that if it is in the game then it can be used. I have posted on this before and that will always be my standpoint. The vendor issue is a known issue. It has been since game launch. Our guild mates knew about it from the first moment that vendors could be placed. It has existed all this time with no attention or fixes. It is my opinion that if a bug is known about and the DEVs do not fix it then it is not important enough an issue for me to not use it.
Balkstar
Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:07 am
#152
DocSavag wrote:
How one can claim that anything that isn't fixed in the game by now isn't important is beyond me..they must not play Squad Leaders, Smugglers, or Rangers that is for sure.
AMEN.
By being in a doubly screwed positionof being a Master Smuggler AND Merchant, I know the feeling of not being loved by the Devs. Hell, the big Smuggler rewrite has been delayed 3 times since anouncing it would be fixed in Publish 9. Now Smugglers won't get a fix until early next year at the earliest?
Don't cry for me, because I don't need the sympathy. Just realize that not all's well with the Player base right now.
Balkstar
Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:11 am
#153
DragonScout wrote:
One of these days Balkstar you will learn that to get your point across and to actually make people listen that it works better to not use all caps and insult people. Usually that just makes them glance quickly over your post and either ignore you or bash you back, neither of which is productive.
If SargusQuintek wants to go all Mr. Spock on us, he better realize that his arguments are not even close to being logical. He completely denies that there is even an exploit going on? PLEASE!!
What he needs is a little emotion in his life. Sort of like a super-shot of bran in his diet.
p4Samwise
Thu Jun 10, 2004 1:50 pm
#154
*still throwing eggs at everyone who didn't raise their hand*
(Yes, I was a Master Artisan at the time that bug was active.)
(Yes, I used the shuttle to fix my bike anyway, because it was less annoying than dealing with the buggy garages. Classic example of two wrongs making a right. )
)
DingoBoi
Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:45 pm
#155
Sargus, if you can't understand how poached vendors hurt real merchant, I can break it down easily into terms you will understand.
I am losing business to poached vendors. If poached vendors were not there, I, or other real merchants, would be making those sales.
Is that simple enough for you?
So in conclusion,
**edit**.
/throws eggs.
Elioi
Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:00 am
#156
Interesting simple point DingoBoi - here's one in the same vein, with the same supporting evidence.
I will lose buisness due to the vendor fix being pushed through. Many players who are orcould be my customers will quit. If the vendor fix were not pushed through those customers would buy products from me or other merchants.
Is that simple enough for you?
In conclusion,
/throws eggs
Seriously this is going to force people to either quit, make a second account, or take skills they have shown that they do not find fun nor desire (accelerating boredom and frustration with the game leading to an exit) so don't be so naive to think that this will solve any sale problems for you or other merchants. It will just cut down on the customer base for your operations. Don't you think you should be looking for ways to fix the issue without antagonizing a large group of your customers, or are you really willing to cut off your nose to spite your face?