Merchant Archive
Thread: Removing full, maintenance paid abandoned vendors has to end!
Anyways, I have totally went off subject now. I am trying to make a point, if you knew me on my server you would know how nice a guy I am. But I'm tired of SWG and the way the game is handled. So I have decided to put my money where my mouth is and cancelled my subscription. You won't miss me, but don't you remember when JTL was scheduled for a june release? and now everything is getting pushed back along with all major game overhauls. It's simple, 500k x 14.99 does not equal 100k x 14.99 which does not equal same size dev team to push things out.
I'm going to be reasonable and identify the problem with SWG since it is not right to criticize it without explaining the situation. SWG as a game has such a massive scope and so many intertwined systems that a game like EQ which has hundreds of thousands of items and massive amounts of content, is so much easier to maintain. SWG is constantly plagued with patch problems etc. because the scope of work is just to large. It's not really the dev's faults, its a flaw in a game which was so massive in detail (not in content but professions, etc.) that a 5 year development time was just not enough to cover all the bases. 1/3 of the intended game was not delivered at release and pieced out to the player base over the first year of release. By their own admission most of the games systems were not setup right, therefore they had to do major overhauls of virtually everything to make it work as intended. Once again, to massive a scope for a regular-sized dev team to handle.
Like I said, ignorant until it happens to you. Just wait until you lose 38 million credits because SOE decides to change how the game operates. It's just a ton of fun! No matter to me, it's just less credits my friends get to have as going away presents.
Wendi wrote:
Cinnamon_tsunami, that's the same reason why my pre-orders for EQ2, Halflife 2, and Halo 2 are at EB. Don't fault these end-users, they just don't understand yet. Some day in the near future... knowing SWG's track record... they will become screwed and want to complain too. I just let them go on, say my peace and hope for better luck in my future endeavors. Have a good day =)
actually, what you said comforted me a lot. it is kind of chilling to have a "tow the line" response from other subscribers in the face of obvious game administration problems and hardware/software issues. i have two days left to set my stuff in order, and then i am on swg vacation, barring an amazing turn around in customer service's abilities to remedy my situation. (not holding my breath, lol).
but i really came to this forum out of desperation, and found that others have had similar problem, also inadequately redressed. and i got to vent my spleen a bit. and i feel i have give fair notice that there is a problem, although i have no real hope it will be noticed, much less addressed. but it made me feel better, and so it was a good thing.
so adieu, swg, at least for a while. it was fun most of the time, at least when it was not hair-pulling frustration, lol.
DocSavag wrote:
Come on my friends. Lets not attack each other over this issue. I don't really think any of us supports the idea of vendors paid up in maintenance with merchandise on them being deleted by the system.
I certainly don't support this system and I"ve already told the devs that its a huge problem. I am going to follow that up this week with another post about it and I'll keep pushing against it.
The purpose of this system is pretty obvious its to prevent you from putting up all your items in storage for 9999999 and then letting it sit around only visiting once a month to keep them back on the vendor. I understand that motiviation by the devs but this system just punishes too many legitimate merchants who might have a slow period.
I realize I'm coming to this discussion a bit late, but what about those of us who create vendors to use as NPCs? You've seen them--Mall guards, etc. Maintence paid, but no inventory on them at all. Mine were deleted. This really ticks me off. My NPCs hurt NOBODY. I don't use them to exploit storage, I use them to create a bit of atmosphere so that YOU, the player, may find a bit more enjoyment. I pay my subscription to do that. I pay the in game maintence fees to do that. I've kept Master Merchant to do that. This 'fix' needs to be revoked.
CerionSkydreamer wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
Come on my friends. Lets not attack each other over this issue. I don't really think any of us supports the idea of vendors paid up in maintenance with merchandise on them being deleted by the system.
I certainly don't support this system and I"ve already told the devs that its a huge problem. I am going to follow that up this week with another post about it and I'll keep pushing against it.
The purpose of this system is pretty obvious its to prevent you from putting up all your items in storage for 9999999 and then letting it sit around only visiting once a month to keep them back on the vendor. I understand that motiviation by the devs but this system just punishes too many legitimate merchants who might have a slow period.
I realize I'm coming to this discussion a bit late, but what about those of us who create vendors to use as NPCs? You've seen them--Mall guards, etc. Maintence paid, but no inventory on them at all. Mine were deleted. This really ticks me off. My NPCs hurt NOBODY. I don't use them to exploit storage, I use them to create a bit of atmosphere so that YOU, the player, may find a bit more enjoyment. I pay my subscription to do that. I pay the in game maintence fees to do that. I've kept Master Merchant to do that. This 'fix' needs to be revoked.
Vendors exist to sell things. If you want to use one as a prop put something up for sale in it. Frankly put crap up for sale at outrageous prices. If someone wants to annoy you by buying it they will at least have to pay a nice sum for it.
DocSavag wrote:
Vendors exist to sell things. If you want to use one as a prop put something up for sale in it. Frankly put crap up for sale at outrageous prices. If someone wants to annoy you by buying it they will at least have to pay a nice sum for it.
With all due respect, Doc, I will disagree with you on this. I am an engineer in RL, and my job is to figure out how to do things, things that haven't been done yet. I do these things with whatever tools and equipment I can get my hands on, within whatever parameters exist (occasionally bending those parameters if needed). I have createdthings that should not exist, using equipment that should not be able to do what I have it doing.
In SWG, we havepeople that build aquariums. Do aquariums exist as a crafted item? No, they don't. But you can take legitimate crafted items, and put them together in such a way as to have an aquarium. I have seen hot tubs with steam coming off of them, zoos with cages, computer terminals, cubicles, fireplaces, pool tables, etc. All coming from the varied imaginations of creative people, using limited items to make limitless creations. I've made "security cameras" to put up over my hot tub.
Vendors exist for whatever we choose to have them exist for. To limit them to just selling is to limit our imaginations,to limit this game, and to limit this world.
I expect better from you, Doc. Don't let me down on this.
Message Edited by LadyGrey on 10-04-2004 04:42 PM
DocSavag wrote:
CerionSkydreamer wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
Come on my friends. Lets not attack each other over this issue. I don't really think any of us supports the idea of vendors paid up in maintenance with merchandise on them being deleted by the system.
I certainly don't support this system and I"ve already told the devs that its a huge problem. I am going to follow that up this week with another post about it and I'll keep pushing against it.
The purpose of this system is pretty obvious its to prevent you from putting up all your items in storage for 9999999 and then letting it sit around only visiting once a month to keep them back on the vendor. I understand that motiviation by the devs but this system just punishes too many legitimate merchants who might have a slow period.
I realize I'm coming to this discussion a bit late, but what about those of us who create vendors to use as NPCs? You've seen them--Mall guards, etc. Maintence paid, but no inventory on them at all. Mine were deleted. This really ticks me off. My NPCs hurt NOBODY. I don't use them to exploit storage, I use them to create a bit of atmosphere so that YOU, the player, may find a bit more enjoyment. I pay my subscription to do that. I pay the in game maintence fees to do that. I've kept Master Merchant to do that. This 'fix' needs to be revoked.
Vendors exist to sell things. If you want to use one as a prop put something up for sale in it. Frankly put crap up for sale at outrageous prices. If someone wants to annoy you by buying it they will at least have to pay a nice sum for it.
This works very well
tho some folk will still buy the item by accident -Indene-
LadyGrey wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
Vendors exist to sell things. If you want to use one as a prop put something up for sale in it. Frankly put crap up for sale at outrageous prices. If someone wants to annoy you by buying it they will at least have to pay a nice sum for it.With all due respect, Doc, I will disagree with you on this. I am an engineer in RL, and my job is to figure out how to do things, things that haven't been done yet. I do these things with whatever tools and equipment I can get my hands on, within whatever parameters exist (occasionally bending those parameters if needed). I have createdthings that should not exist, using equipment that should not be able to do what I have it doing.
In SWG, we havepeople that build aquariums. Do aquariums exist as a crafted item? No, they don't. But you can take legitimate crafted items, and put them together in such a way as to have an aquarium. I have seen hot tubs with steam coming off of them, zoos with cages, computer terminals, cubicles, fireplaces, pool tables, etc. All coming from the varied imaginations of creative people, using limited items to make limitless creations.
Vendors exist for whatever we choose to have them exist for. To limit them to just selling is to limit our imaginations,to limit this game, and to limit this world.
I expect better from you, Doc. Don't let me down on this.
All of that is fine. Feel free to use your vendor for whatver you want. But be prepared to use the same rules that those of us who use them for their intended purpose do.
DocSavag wrote:
LadyGrey wrote:
DocSavag wrote:
Vendors exist to sell things. If you want to use one as a prop put something up for sale in it. Frankly put crap up for sale at outrageous prices. If someone wants to annoy you by buying it they will at least have to pay a nice sum for it.With all due respect, Doc, I will disagree with you on this. I am an engineer in RL, and my job is to figure out how to do things, things that haven't been done yet. I do these things with whatever tools and equipment I can get my hands on, within whatever parameters exist (occasionally bending those parameters if needed). I have created things that should not exist, using equipment that should not be able to do what I have it doing.
In SWG, we have people that build aquariums. Do aquariums exist as a crafted item? No, they don't. But you can take legitimate crafted items, and put them together in such a way as to have an aquarium. I have seen hot tubs with steam coming off of them, zoos with cages, computer terminals, cubicles, fireplaces, pool tables, etc. All coming from the varied imaginations of creative people, using limited items to make limitless creations.
Vendors exist for whatever we choose to have them exist for. To limit them to just selling is to limit our imaginations, to limit this game, and to limit this world.
I expect better from you, Doc. Don't let me down on this.
All of that is fine. Feel free to use your vendor for whatver you want. But be prepared to use the same rules that those of us who use them for their intended purpose do.
Hmmm, so Doc, you're either a). asking me to game the game just to play the way I want (ie, by putting 'crap' as you say on the vendors) or b). offer deliberately deceitful items up for sale.
I'm sorry, but if I'm suppose to deceive people to play this game, that's wrong and I don't see how you can support this. Or have we come to a turf battle in which the issue no longer matters but 'you're right and I'm wrong' is the dialogue we have? "Be prepared to use the same rules..." you say? If my intended purpose is to create an inviting an interesting shop that people want to visit by creating NPC vendors, then am I not 'following the rules?'
And aren't rules meant to prevent someone from cheating? HOw the he11 am I cheating if I put up a vendor paid for in full through skill points, maintence, and my subscriptio fee? I'm hurting no one...you still haven't addressed that.
A vendor that is empty and selling nothing hurts the merchant profession becuase people get tired of seeing them. They stop looking at legitimate vendors and they get jaded about the whole profession. I know that ususally decorative NPC's are obviously not selling anything but the effect is really the same.
Selling 1 item on your vendor that is named "Read ME" and describes what the vendor is for is not deceptive. It will keep your vendor alive and allow you to do what you want to do without changing the rules for others. There is a reason that empty vendors are removed now. It is a solution to the problem of people putting up vendors and then going away and never coming back. They sit there forever and take up space. Now they don't unless you sell things. Its pretty simple to keep them with minimal effort. You have to put something up for sale on them every 30 days. Thats really not that hard to do.
DocSavag wrote:
What you are asking is that the rules be changed not for any benefit for the merchant profession or our abilities to sell things but so you can use vendors as decorations. Sorry I don't support that. If you want to petition the devs for decorative NPC's I'll post supporting you.
A vendor that is empty and selling nothing hurts the merchant profession becuase people get tired of seeing them. They stop looking at legitimate vendors and they get jaded about the whole profession. I know that ususally decorative NPC's are obviously not selling anything but the effect is really the same.
Selling 1 item on your vendor that is named "Read ME" and describes what the vendor is for is not deceptive. It will keep your vendor alive and allow you to do what you want to do without changing the rules for others. There is a reason that empty vendors are removed now. It is a solution to the problem of people putting up vendors and then going away and never coming back. They sit there forever and take up space. Now they don't unless you sell things. Its pretty simple to keep them with minimal effort. You have to put something up for sale on them every 30 days. Thats really not that hard to do.
What kills me is that one SECOND is even spent considering something like this when we have locked abilities right now (lots) that cannot be used for our benefit without grieving someone else (e.g., transferstructure BUG). Just like where I saw Tiggs and JustG waste time on discovering/informing people AGAIN that TC is a testing TOOL, not a live server. Imagine that.
Vendors should be functional TOOLS and the focus of the devs should be in improving the usefulness of said tools.
Fivo Asia