Merchant Archive
Thread: Interesting ideological parallel Harvester Certs/Poaching
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Elioi
Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:49 am
#1
Turning these concepts over in my mind I find there to be some interesting correlations between poaching and harvester certs.
The argument for certs is that people are getting abilities without SP for running an object geared to gain money (running harvs)
The argument against poaching is that people are getting abilities without SP for running an object geared to gain money (vendors)
The act of garnering resources has SP precident (aka Scout is needed for some organics)
The act of gaining vendors has a SP precident (need to grind your way up to get them before dropping skills)
Both ideas have encountered resistance from players taking advantage of the lack of SP neccisary and many feel it is their right to use them without SP investment
a couple of others spring to mind harder to properly word...its too early 
What do you guys think?
For the record I am seriously anti-poaching (to the point of deleting vendors before I dropped my merch skills on my main to make sure there wasn't any holdover, and am 4444 merch still on my alt) and I am beginning to lean towards harvester certs.
Cendatinea
Sat Jun 05, 2004 9:01 am
#2
Elioi wrote:
The act of gaining vendors has a SP precident (need to grind your way up to get them before dropping skills)
This is the part I am confused about. Scouts get resources from harvesting kills, not placing harvesters. Only artisans place harvesters.
DragonScout
Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:46 pm
#3
I think he is saying (from how I read it) That because you cannot get organic harvests without being a scout, that you shouldn't be able to use harvesters without at least artisan? Correct me if I am wrong, but that is what it sounds like. Kinda interesting idea.
GoCanes
Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:27 pm
#4
In Beta, we had Miners... They were the only ones who were able to place harvestors at one time... For some reason, they removed them... ??? I think it would have put a very tight noose on the economy if someone had to use skill points to get Medium and Large Harvestors placed... Otherwise the use of Personal Harvestors was forced... Also in Beta, we had Industrialists... The only profession allowed to place Factories, but there was so much confusion on who should get XP, etc... That the iodea was scrapped...
Since those two professions were removed, the ability to place harvestors and factories wasopened to all gamers, but the vendor situation is a bug that the DEVs have clarified is unintended...
LonelyGhost
Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:51 pm
#5
I would have rather foght over who got XP and all that while keeping Industrialist and Miners in the game. Too many resources are drowning the game.
Songe
Sat Jun 05, 2004 7:56 pm
#6
There is a big difference you are not taking into account though - there is no investment when you place a vendor or harvest meat. For harvesters you have to pay for the harvester first. For scout and vendors you need SPs, as they are profession-defining abilities. For harvesters you need money, and they are not profession-definining abilities, since they got rid of the mining profession.
DocSavag
Sun Jun 06, 2004 8:45 pm
#7
Songe wrote:
There is a big difference you are not taking into account though - there is no investment when you place a vendor or harvest meat. For harvesters you have to pay for the harvester first. For scout and vendors you need SPs, as they are profession-defining abilities. For harvesters you need money, and they are not profession-definining abilities, since they got rid of the mining profession.
I tend to agree with you Songe. While I believe that there are too many resources in the economy (which will get even WORSE when the hologrind stops drawing them off the market) I think there are other avenues available to slow down the amount of resources harvested. Artisan already has the only ability in the game to search to find specific areas for resources. Sure you can drop a harvester down where someone else already has one..if you guess wrong and they just haven't moved it yet since the last shift you just pad a fair amount of money .. that kind of speculative mining is very expensive without artisan survey skills.
Lopaka79
Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:57 pm
#8
hmm there are droids that allow you to harvest from creatures now.. so that kinda throws out the harv certs through the uprights 
And if im correct (witch im sure i am) a droid can harvest better than a MasterScout. Im still with you on the vendor fix 
I think its a great idea to boost up another under looked porf. Gotta make money somehow Hmmm maybe bonus +BER to Harvs would be good at certian lvls of Merchant. So you can still be a little more special than the normal player
And if im correct (witch im sure i am) a droid can harvest better than a MasterScout. Im still with you on the vendor fix I think its a great idea to boost up another under looked porf. Gotta make money somehow Hmmm maybe bonus +BER to Harvs would be good at certian lvls of Merchant. So you can still be a little more special than the normal player
Songe
Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:13 am
#9
Well you need novice scout to use those droids, so it's not really a problem.
Scoooter
Mon Jun 07, 2004 10:58 am
#10
Elioi wrote:
Turning these concepts over in my mind I find there to be some interesting correlations between poaching and harvester certs.
The argument for certs is that people are getting abilities without SP for running an object geared to gain money (running harvs)
The argument against poaching is that people are getting abilities without SP for running an object geared to gain money (vendors)
The act of garnering resources has SP precident (aka Scout is needed for some organics)
The act of gaining vendors has a SP precident (need to grind your way up to get them before dropping skills)
Both ideas have encountered resistance from players taking advantage of the lack of SP neccisary and many feel it is their right to use them without SP investment
a couple of others spring to mind harder to properly word...its too early
What do you guys think?
For the record I am seriously anti-poaching (to the point of deleting vendors before I dropped my merch skills on my main to make sure there wasn't any holdover, and am 4444 merch still on my alt) and I am beginning to lean towards harvester certs.
Well the merchant fix and harvester certs are like apples and oranges.
In the case of harvster certs the Artisans want to take a game mechanic that requires no specific skill and no SP's to require a specific skill and SP's in their tree. Basically taking away an ability usable by all which is why the vast majority of the community is against it because of what a root change it will make to the server economies.
In the case of the merchant fix, vendors have always required skills and SP's and the fact that currently you can drop the skill and control your vendor is being rectifed. Nothing new is being added or subtracted. A bug that has been there since launch is being fixed. The devs have stated that many times.
mhal9000
Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:24 pm
#11
Lopaka79 wrote:
hmm there are droids that allow you to harvest from creatures now.. so that kinda throws out the harv certs through the uprights
You have to have the Novice Scout profession to be able to use the droid, and then it only accents your existing harvesting ability. Someone with novice scout and a droid are not going to be able to out harvest someone even with hunting 1 and no droid.
As far as the merchant poaching/harvester certs issue, there never was a miner profession when the game was released, so I think the analogy is a little off.
Scoooter
Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:45 pm
#12
exactly.
People keep getting caught up in the fact there was a miner profession in beta that was removed for very good reasons and the ability to use an automated harvetser was given to everyone
Elioi
Mon Jun 07, 2004 5:45 pm
#13
Well locating the resources to mine does require SP. The fact that you can just guess and drop it anywhere (or leech of another's survey) maybe should be looked at, many people are using an artisan's survey to guess or be transfered the waypoint, thus gaining the skill without skill pts. An analogy would beif scouts only had the ability to tell what type of resource were on an animal, but everyone who killed one could just harvest the corpse and hope to end up with "wooly hide". The extraction of these resources require skill points, why not for all resources? Many of the cert ideas take into account the fact that non-Artisan branches should also have certs - like doctor, CM, and smuggler among them. To compare it to vendors - everyone can sell on the bazzar, artisans with buisness get 1 vendor and limited choices, and merchants get more choices and options with the investment of additional skill points. WIth harvester certs no skill pt investment gives you access to personal harvestors only (like the bazzar of harvesters) those who invest in a crafting profession can have medium harvesters (like the 1 limited option vendor) and those who invest additional skillpts in Survey up to 4 also get access to the largest harvesters. Vendors and Harvs should work similarly - more SP investment = more options.
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