Merchant Archive
Thread: Vendor Poaching a Fallacy?
Noob? That's funny. Been on since Day One - been a Master Merchant. Not now, but I *don't* have "exploited" vendors.
Jeeze, are you guys touchy or what?
So, are you going to address the substance of my questions (i.e. why they just go away when you forget how to make/hire them instead of just costing more to keep, etc.)Or are you just going to hand-wave and resume flagellating your self?
Quick followup, too - my comparison is *not* flawed, as your "rebuttal" clearly shows. The EXACT point is that weapons *don't* go poof when you drop Weaponsmith, you just can't make more - sooooo - why do VENDORS go poof when you drop Merchant, instead of just losing the ability to hire more?
Thanks for helping make my point.
Werekoala wrote:
Quick followup, too - my comparison is *not* flawed, as your "rebuttal" clearly shows. The EXACT point is that weapons *don't* go poof when you drop Weaponsmith, you just can't make more - sooooo - why do VENDORS go poof when you drop Merchant, instead of just losing the ability to hire more?
Thanks for helping make my point.
No..your point is still false becasue you are equating the product of your efforts as a weaponsmith to the tool the merchants use to sell things. It isn't the same thing not even close. The closest analogy are the DRAFT schematics. If you could keep those when you gave up weaponsmith you would have a point.
We don't craft vendors. We sell things to make a profit USING vendors.
This whole thread is pointless though because we've had this debate for over 6 months now and there are at least four other threads with the same bad analogy on the first page here. Add to that the fact that the devs have stated this isn't working as they intended and that it will be changed.
Werekoala wrote:
Let's for a moment consider what, at the basic level, those complaining about placing a merchant and then cashing in the skills seem to be saying:
If you earn the skills to be able to buy/hire a vendor (either a boxy slab or a svelt, chatty Twi'lek), and then for whatver reason deside to drop the skills that allowed you to buy/hire the vendor - it should go *poof*.
By that logic, if someone is an armorsmith and decides to drop it and go for something else - all the armor they ever made should go *poof* too...?
Or if you are a vendor in real life and buy a Coke machine - and later go into another line of work - the machine goes *poof*...?
Since, in order to maintain a vendor, even if you have no skills, you have to pay maintainence on them - why should they not keep existing as long as you pay their salary/maintainence? Seems to me that just vanishing at the drop of a hat loses something in the Suspension of Disbelief department.
Here's an idea; Instead of making the vendors go *poof*, double or triple their maintainence costs. Or better yet, *reward* Master Merchants with something more exciting than clothing for their employees - I know my buying decisions have nothing to do with what the in-game vendor looks like, but with what's on it. There must be SOME tangible benefit that the Developers can give someone who's mastered the profession.
At any rate, the point I'm making is that Vendors "in-game" and in real life are "real" things that don't just vanish when you forget how to make them, any more than rifles or cases of Brandy. Let's keep it that way.
(In fact, this is a huge problem I have with the entire skill system and cap on skill points in general, and one that will NOT go away until they GIVE US MORE SKILL POINTS!)
ok lets take your logig a bit farther if in RL u learn how to use a gun its not somthing thats just gonna go poof one day oh crap now i dont know how to use this crazy thing. so so lets just make it so if u learn a skill u can drop it but still know it. ya that will be great we'll have a bunch of MA/CM/riflmen/commando/pistolleer/carbinist/masterfencer/masterbrawler/chef/weaponsmith/armorsmith/master dancer/master musicians running around oh ya wont that be swell ihardly think so and no we dont need extra skill points its set up to create interdependece u cant do everything yourself. having a vendor is a skill not just a thing if you want the benifits of a merchant but dont have the skill points then contact a merchant im sur he/she would love your bissness.
Werekoala wrote:
Let's for a moment consider what, at the basic level, those complaining about placing a merchant and then cashing in the skills seem to be saying:
If you earn the skills to be able to buy/hire a vendor (either a boxy slab or a svelt, chatty Twi'lek), and then for whatver reason deside to drop the skills that allowed you to buy/hire the vendor - it should go *poof*.
By that logic, if someone is an armorsmith and decides to drop it and go for something else - all the armor they ever made should go *poof* too...?
Or if you are a vendor in real life and buy a Coke machine - and later go into another line of work - the machine goes *poof*...?
Since, in order to maintain a vendor, even if you have no skills, you have to pay maintainence on them - why should they not keep existing as long as you pay their salary/maintainence? Seems to me that just vanishing at the drop of a hat loses something in the Suspension of Disbelief department.
Here's an idea; Instead of making the vendors go *poof*, double or triple their maintainence costs. Or better yet, *reward* Master Merchants with something more exciting than clothing for their employees - I know my buying decisions have nothing to do with what the in-game vendor looks like, but with what's on it. There must be SOME tangible benefit that the Developers can give someone who's mastered the profession.
At any rate, the point I'm making is that Vendors "in-game" and in real life are "real" things that don't just vanish when you forget how to make them, any more than rifles or cases of Brandy. Let's keep it that way.
(In fact, this is a huge problem I have with the entire skill system and cap on skill points in general, and one that will NOT go away until they GIVE US MORE SKILL POINTS!)
Yet another person that needs to be taught the lesson of goods versus tools. When will they learn?
Goods are products or services that are imparted from a crafter to a purchaser (anyone requesting the product or service to through a bartered transaction). These items can be used by anybody in the game and do not require thepurchaser to haveeither previous or current skill abilities to craft the items. These items include, but are not limited to:
1. prototype items
2. factory schematics
3. slices to items
4. buffs
5. heals
6. face lifts
7.stat migrations...
Tools are items used to give a player a competative advantage in a profession through the use of skill points. They cannot be used by any player that has not currently or formally (hopefully to be fixed very soon) submitted skill points to recieve. They would include, but are not limited to:
1.draft schematics
2:dance routine and songs
3.vendors
Vendors are considered tools, not goods, as they provide an advantage to those that utilizeits special ability (the ability to vend goods)compared to those that do not invest skill points,and they cannot be transferred to other players. We merchants spend good points to gain those level of skills and tools. You appear to value those skills too whaile not paying for them by utilizing a bug. That's exploiting.
I have a compromise to your compromise. When you remove the skill points to utilize vendors, how about you lose the skills gained until you pay the proper skill points again. Say your global vending goes poof when you are out of Ad III. Your NPC vendor lose vending capabilities and your vendor becomes a storage vessel for 1 week and the goes poof if you loose Novice Merchant. Your vendors' clothes are rerolled if you loose Hiring IV.
Face facts. If you want to usesomething valuable to use, which in all appearence by this post that you do, you will have to pay for it. Otherwise lose the skills when you drop the points. Pure and simple.
Werekoala wrote:
Quick followup, too - my comparison is *not* flawed, as your "rebuttal" clearly shows. The EXACT point is that weapons *don't* go poof when you drop Weaponsmith, you just can't make more - sooooo - why do VENDORS go poof when you drop Merchant, instead of just losing the ability to hire more?
Thanks for helping make my point.
Maybe instead of changing the Merchant profession, you can recommend they limit weaponsmiths to 7 weapons on the server at a time...
Lets say a player was merchant - they did some merchant things - they filled in some skill blocks, they decided they didn'twant to be a merchant anymore - why would they reasonably expect to continue to receive the benefits of being a merchant?
I wish when I give up smuggler I could keep the ability to slice and when I give up combat medic, it would be fun to keep mind poisons, but it is all a trade off ... if one decides that the benefits of the skill are not worth the investment,they giveup the investment. They should accept that theyloose the benefit.
Some mightthink ... well .. merchant has some slight benefits that do not justify the expense, I should be able to aqquire them through other means ... to satisfy that, it would devalue those same benefits to those who do value them highly enough to be merchants.
And though the vendors might dissapear,nothing they sold does, just like none of the weapons a weaponscrafter sold do..
Maybe though, when one looses the requied skill, an alternative could be:
1 - increased maintenance (like really increased)
2 - not able to deposit additional maintenance
3 - not able to put more objects on vendors
either eventually one would regain the skill(s) and be able to use vendors again, or they would eventually stop showing up for work.
Ijuakos wrote:
If you give up merchant skills, you :
1) cannot place new merchants. No way to expand your business if you wanted to. If you got the business artisan tree, you cannot select the race of your merchant. You can't give each vendor a "uniform" either, if you wanted them all dressed the same way.
2) pay higher maintenance fees. The efficiency line has all those reduced fee modifiers, remember?
3) cannot start or stop a vendor barking.
4) cannot register or unregister a vendor on the planetary map
5) cannot change your shop's sign.
The only thing you can do without merchant skills is have a pre-existing vendor running at the normal maintenance costs and with any previous customizations.
Even when I was a Master Scout I couldn't rage with my fro. This game is so buggy.
Balkstar wrote:
Frorage
Here we go again...
Once again, Vendors are a TOOL not a PRODUCT. We USE them. Ergo if you're not a merchant you cannot use the TOOL of a vendor. That's really all it boils down to.
The method I've always favored is once you drop the skills to have a vendor your vendor becomes remove only. You can't ADD anything to the inventory. People can buy from it. You can remove stuff from it. You can't even ADD maintence to it. You have until the maintence runs out or your inventory does.
