Medic Archive
Thread: Mind Damage: A Serious Problem For Medics
People's inability to manage their stats is a player problem not a game problem.
If a player thinks they can pvp with 300 mind, then they probably have 300 mind in RL.
I PVP'd in beta 3 on and off.. my character was a rodian doctor... What did he fear? healthshots.
I had 1000 mind and 1000 action (rodians are high action species).. my health was 650. Pistoleers were my bane. If I wasn't real careful I was lunch meat. Mind and action didn't bother me one bit.. 1 on 1 anyone attacking my mind pool had an equal chance of getting killed by me spamming a pool he had 1000 in... maxxed out characters often have novice medic at best, so stim A's aren't really an issue. My current character has more health, sine I will do PVP ocassionally in live, and I learned my lesson.
My wookie Rifleman/artisan on the other hand haas lower Action (though as a wookie he has more action than my rodian had health). He can't wear armor though... his weakness is carbines.
Assuming 1 on 1 fights... my doctor could take most people 50/50 chance if they went for his mind pool.
In group PVP, all sorts of other dynamics come into play.. Area attacks (carbine skills and grenades) can make a big difference...TKA's sneaking around the fight and whumping people from an alley.
Assuming PVP = 2 people standing and spamming a stat shot is a bad way to balance medics.
A squad leader coordinating 5 pistoleers on anyone makes that guy toast. No matter if there is a medic pouring bacta on him with a hose (btw, the first target should be the medic if anyone had any brains). Even with tags turned off, people will learn who is what in PVP soon enough.
I really don't think this is te problem that people are making it out to be.. No, I was never 100% overt. But I did do a decent amount of PVP, and I did play on balttlefields, and when people were thinking and using tactics (and had characters without a seriously gimped stat glowing like a target over their heads) mind damage wasn't a big deal.
If a player thinks they can pvp with 300 mind, then they probably have 300 mind in RL.
LOL!
One of the greatest quote ever =P
As for stat management in for PvP, for a Zabrak Doc/Rifle anyways, I minimum secondary stats for health and action, maximixed secondary stats for mind, then my pools were around 900-950ish, very balanced.
Nothing beats full heal + fast mind regen + equilibrium
To any medics out there, your secondary stats for health and action (especailly regen!) are not worth it. Maybe you need the reduced move cost for a carbine or something, but regen is totally worthless when you can heal yourself. Put those points in willpower and focus!
Alright, my example seems to have gotten people off track.
The idea here is not who could kill who. I'm not talking about medics ability to heal themselves at all. Everyone here has agreed medics shouldn't get a mind-heal that works on themselves, so why not give them one that works only on other people? That still seems like a great idea to me.
The idea here is the usefulness of medics, in groups, both in PvP and PvE.
Mind damage *is* a problem, because there's no way to heal it in the field. I am of the opinion, that if the damage is being delt to my party slower than I can heal it, we should all survive the fight. Instead, the mind damage builds up the longer the fight goes on- and eventualy people start dropping, and there isn't anything to be done about it.
Nagorak wrote:
Also, like others have said, this gives ENTERTAINERS a reason to be near the front lines. Don't be greedy, you guys already get two stat heals.
If riflemen/pistoliers/carbineers could only ever kill 2/3 of any creatures HAM bars, how happy would you be if you needed another class to finish it off/could never kill it at all? That's the problem with mind damage, no matter whats dealing it out - it leaves a medic with nothing to do but stand around. It's an uncurable injury.
Nagorak wrote:
Oh, and one other thing: if "tanks" are so stupid to go around with a low mindpool in either PvE or PvP, then they deserve to be incapacitated and DB'd all the time. Anyone with half a brain has already realized the necessity in having all the stats at least decent.
So, since people can adjust their stats as they wish in this game - all the current system will lead to is everyone having even Health/Action/Mind stats. There's variety for you.
Sorry to tell you medics this, but 75% of the people out there are running around with pistols. So, it seems to me that there's no real need to nerf the rifle's mind attacking ability. Rifles are supposed to be deadly...you take a shot to the head, you're going down. Pistols have the advantage of hitting the more common pools, and being used closer in. They also take less damage in melee.
What you're talking about (healing mind) isn't an improvement for the medic, it's a major nerf for Riflemen. If you just want to give everyone another reason to just go pistol, then this is it.
Also, like others have said, this gives ENTERTAINERS a reason to be near the front lines. Don't be greedy, you guys already get two stat heals. And, in real life all the armies go around with their bands and that silly bugler.
Oh, and one other thing: if "tanks" are so stupid to go around with a low mindpool in either PvE or PvP, then they deserve to be incapacitated and DB'd all the time. Anyone with half a brain has already realized the necessity in having all the stats at least decent. And another thing this would nerf is all the Zabraks who have naturally high mind regen, and generally don't need to worry about going down to head wounds,
I'll bump this! I would be all for changing combat so that mind damage goes to one of the other pools instead. It would help the groupability of riflemen (sucks when everyone is hitting body but them) while at the same time making medics more useful in both PvE and PvP.
Heck of an idea, two thumbs up.
I agree with Cutter's original post completely for all of the reasons he stated. I've been worried about this problem for a while. My brawlers are always mind incap with full health and action bars. Silly. I don' t think medics should get a mind heal and I certainly don't want entertainers playing instruments in battle. Cutter's solution is reasonable, balanced, and cautious.
Ehle
Master Medic
Chilastra
"generally low medic population"
Not where I am. Around Bestine and Mos Eisley on Starsider, I know of 12-15 Doctors and a couple of those should hit Master in the next day or two if they haven't already.
It is getting to the stage where someone with 50% wounds can come into a med center at the right time and be fully healed before they can even sit down 
Dr. Stimsgonna try a forth time to post this. Seems there needs to be some forum server load management.
I've read through, again, all the comments on this thread and have this to put in.
1. With the way it's set up now, a brawler class would do well to have high health and action if he plans on soloing, or not takeing brawling very high. If the person wants that brawler to go higher into the game it would make more sense for him/her to fill up all the mind stats first, then distribute the rest of their points as needed between HA. That brawler with the help of a medic/doctor will go far. The Doctor can boost HA stats up, and keep them healed, but the fight only last until the mind pool is gone.
2. This thread was started because someone believed this area needed attention for game continuity balancing. It was not started for some of you to ridicule how some people play or design their characters, it was not started for you to try and nerf another class, or keep one class from trying to become ubar. Take your petty comments back to the playground
3. I liked the input about increaseing the difficulty for maneauver's, that do mind damage, to hit. Makes sense, even though the rifleman gets head shot as his very first specialty, make it the hardest shot he'll ever have to make.
4. I STILL think that the mind stats, wounds and damage should be the area of entertainers. I could care less if a real entertainer had ever been called to front lines in real life, this isn't real life, and we're trying to create options and playability for all types of players, and making a need for an entertainer at the front line seems like it would keep the medics from being over worked. I'm not talking about a bard here, if that's your worry, go back to EQ.
5. If you were to put a mind stim pack into the doctor/combat medic tree and give it a medicine use of 45+, the people that could use it would not gain from the pitiful amount of exp you would get from it. Do your math people, it would be overpowered by attrition. I would even be willing to have it give, zero, exp. This would be one more item in inventory, one more command on the hotkey bar, the choice of doing a HA heal or a M heal during a given time slot, and zero exp. Yes I do believe I would go to that length to say it would be worth it.
6. It would be really, really, very nice to get a CSR-Developers input on this area to describe what the basis behind this percieved reality is. I remember in Beta when you could heal mind damage, and I remember how it was abused. The ability was removed, and it's my belief that they moved on to more pressing matters, and are still on more pressing matters.
Here is one great big huge point that is gonna cause problems.
I'm a doctor, I like to put together hunting parties, I know the benifit's that some races get for combat etc. If I'm putting together a hunting party that I want to do well, I'm gonna pass right over human, Trandoshan, Twi'lek Brawlers, Secondly I'm gonna spy on the person before inviting them to see what their mind pool looks like when I have them targeted. If it's too small, I'm gonna play the smart card and go for a Zabrak with a decent mind pool. It's worth the extra half hour of looking to save many, many group wipes. It is my belief that people should be selected based on their capabilities, not their handycaps.
This is amajor problem. Medics, Combat Medics, and Doctorsshould notbe helpless to heal damage in PvP or PvE combat period. The problem is greatest in PvP, however PvE still presents a large issue.
Medic classes need some way to deal with mind damage, or mind damage needs to be removed/altered. This makes the rilfe far to powerful, and makes three classes almost completely useless in PvP. If that isn't unbalanced, then the word unbalanced has no meaning.
How to fix it? no clue, but here are some ideas:
1. Make headshot, and mind damage attacks default the health/action bar with a chanceto hit the mind stat. This would be a devastating hit, but not as targetable as it is now.
2. remove mind damage, and make attacks that would hit mind actually damage health + action. Perhaps what was once a 100 point mind hit, would now be a 75 health and 75 action hit. Still very nasty, as it does more overall damage but not overpowered.
3. Wrap around damage, where when someon hits 0 mind it wraps to health and or action. This would make pistols and carbines too powerful tho, since they would be directly targeting the killable stat.
4. Give medics stimpacks that can heal mind damage (NOT WOUNDS), however these stimpacks would cuase a effect on the target where they can not use specials or items (Your dosing the person up on sedatives, etc so they can't think straight). This would prevent medics from spam healing their own mind, or swapping mind heals with other medics.