Medic Archive

Thread: has anyone tested the new TC changes?

Saarkai
Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:05 am
#40




MsNiL wrote:




Saarkai wrote:
Yes, that is a powerful template no doubt (getting hit with this nerf too). But it is notintentionally overpowered. Jedi are.


Then they do not work as intended.






I don't know you very well, but look. I pvp as a nomral template against jedi a LOT. They are indeed overpowered compared to regular profs. Are there normal prof template PvPers who can beat jedi, absolutly, but that's because they are good pvpers. All things being equal, Jedi rules.


If you don't think they are, I assure you, all those hordes of jedi running around SF and domminating the battlefield disagree with you.


I just recently added this medic 0-0-2-0 to my template, gave up master marksman for it (a master I've held since about two weeks after launch). I spend a large amount of credits on +healing Eff mods, because it just so happens, wooks can't wear BE shirts. We're gimped in the BE clothes category.


This additional healing has not made me overpowered. Especially with regards to fighting against jedi. It does give me half a chance though. But I guess we couldn't have the lowly "normals" having half a chance against the SOE's pet Jedi.


It makes me sick. A profession that started out as a privledge, very very rare, and very very dangerous, has become the FOTM,with little to no risk,and they whine like banshees should ANYONE come close to being able to challenge them.



Saarkai - Rebel Ace Pilot - Flurry
MsNiL
Wed Jul 27, 2005 10:35 am
#41



Saarkai wrote:
I don't know you very well, but look. I pvp as a normal template against jedi a LOT. They are indeed overpowered compared to regular profs. Are there normal prof template PvPers who can beat jedi, absolutly, but that's because they are good pvpers. All things being equal, Jedi rules.

If you don't think they are, I assure you, all those hordes of jedi running around SF and domminating the battlefield disagree with you.


I just recently added this medic 0-0-2-0 to my template, gave up master marksman for it (a master I've held since about two weeks after launch). I spend a large amount of credits on +healing Eff mods, because it just so happens, wooks can't wear BE shirts. We're gimped in the BE clothes category.


This additional healing has not made me overpowered. Especially with regards to fighting against jedi. It does give me half a chance though. But I guess we couldn't have the lowly "normals" having half a chance against the SOE's pet Jedi.


It makes me sick. A profession that started out as a privledge, very very rare, and very very dangerous, has become the FOTM,with little to no risk,and they whine like banshees should ANYONE come close to being able to challenge them.



Ok, seriously.


"Jedi" consists of 90 skillboxes and 65 distinct abilities. To me, speaking about "Jedi" is like speaking about "Brawlers" or "Marksman". What if I where starting to suggest for a Pistoleer that they should be happy becouse at least they have T-21? Or should I tell Fencers that they at least have Power Hammers? It's the same.


Your issue is most likely with Master Force Defender, which is 20% of Jedi.


If you where among the lucky ones who got a pre-cu lightsaber that do 900+ damage, and construct a template out of Master Defender, Master Lightsaber, 4000 Healer, yes, then you are indeed very powerful. And there are Jedi who are exactly that. But that doesnt mean that Jedi is overpowered. It's just another sign that the Jedi Disciplines are currently very, very broken. I have personally never won a duel with my Lightsaber or my template. Why do I insist of keeping my template? Becouse I play what I want to play, not what I know is working as intended.


Here's the truth:

The Lack of Revamp:

Like Commando, Ranger, Creature Handler, Jedi where "Outside the Scope of the CU". They where never revamped, so we are practically running around with pre-cu skillsets. This is like having an AD&D character in a D&D3.5 campaign. While there are similarities to the new system, we are very very different. Some things are extremely good. Some things are extremely bad. As long as theese are not revamped and "put in scope of the cu", they will continue to be severly unbalanced, both in a bad way and in a good way.


The Lack of Defense:

As you can see on my template, I do not have any of that. I do not have any defenses at all, so I take full damage-range from rifles. This is practically like playing Dungeons & Dragons without Constitution. This means I take 1250 damage while non-Jedi take around 900, thanks to their defenses. This is then reduced an additional 48% thanks to the non-Jedi armor down to 450. There I have 20% armor, so I take 1000 damage, which is almost the double.


The Lack of Heals:

As you can see on my template, I ama Master Healer, and my alt is a Master Doctor. A Master Doctor (106sp) can heal for about 3500 damage in6 seconds, using 15% mind. With Master Healer (113sp)I can heal 1500 damage in 6 seconds. That's less than half. Now, i do have Total Heal which can heal alot, but it havea forcecost so high, that if I use it to heal 350 damage I am out of force within 2 minutes. A Doctor on food regenerate mind so fast that they never run out (I have tried and I have very good combo for that). A Jedi takes 20 minutes to regenerate their forcebar, and in no way it regenerates quick enough to recover. Imagine that Mind took 20 minutes to regenerate and you see what we are playing with right now.


The Lack of Weapon:

The thing we use for our weapons are not dropping. Pearls. This means that we may produce a lightsaber that do around 500 damage and 2.7 speed, while our sabers are supposed to do around 900+ with 1.2 speed. I often use an unlicensed FWG5 as replacement since I just cant kill anything with my lightsaber. Imagine that all licenses beyond Marksman is removed from the game, so you can no longer use them. That's what we are playing with right now.




--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.
SpunkyKuma
Wed Jul 27, 2005 11:00 am
#42
It's pretty sad that my young Jedi has a 352-446 max dmg 4th gen and can't even scratch another player, can't get anything better than that right now compared to the older Jedi. Master healer in Jedi is ridiculous right now and the heals eats a crap load of force and mind.

Right now numbers is what wins fights, On both my BH toon and melee stacker toon I can take on many Jedi, but a MDefender are always the hardest and healing is definately essential for ANYONE that PVPs and doctor 4000 or CM 4000 are probably going to start being a requirement.



Vicci A'Tivo - Elder "in your face" Bounty Hunter
Ekinn A'Tivo - NGE Jedi
XProdigy - Pre-24 Squad Leader
Chac Baal - Elder Jedi (Omen's first Mon Cal Jedi)
Sylow
Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:04 am
#43





I just recently added this medic 0-0-2-0 to my template, gave up master marksman for it (a master I've held since about two weeks after launch). I spend a large amount of credits on +healing Eff mods, because it just so happens, wooks can't wear BE shirts. We're gimped in the BE clothes category.



Almost true. There is a wookie shoulder pad available which can take the BE stuff. Though, it's so ugly that i can understand not using it, not to mention that you won't find that pad with the BE mod on any vendor. And since the BE-tailoring currently is badly broken, you also can't order it at the moment.


And on the topic itself, i ran around as Master Carbineer / Master Squad Leader since some time and tried several investments for the remaining skillpoints. When i went for novice BE to give me a second use in base busting, i just "by accident" acquired the bacta shot, and using a +16 BE shirt, it allows me to do some great healing. Since then i managed to beat some opponents which i had no chance to even seriously scratch before taking medic into my build. And this for an effective 17 skillpoints. (The other 34 skillpoints into novice BE give me nothing in terms of combat, so those 17 points help me much more than 51 points invested elsewhere.)


While i really enjoy this new-found power, i also agree that this makes the novice medic incredibly more valuable than any other alternative i found up to now and have to admit that it's unbalanced.







Learn to sing!
Infinity - Papyn Biboon
MSL, MCarb Grunt Leader
Saarkai
Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:40 am
#44




Sylow wrote:





I just recently added this medic 0-0-2-0 to my template, gave up master marksman for it (a master I've held since about two weeks after launch). I spend a large amount of credits on +healing Eff mods, because it just so happens, wooks can't wear BE shirts. We're gimped in the BE clothes category.



Almost true. There is a wookie shoulder pad available which can take the BE stuff. Though, it's so ugly that i can understand not using it, not to mention that you won't find that pad with the BE mod on any vendor. And since the BE-tailoring currently is badly broken, you also can't order it at the moment.


And on the topic itself, i ran around as Master Carbineer / Master Squad Leader since some time and tried several investments for the remaining skillpoints. When i went for novice BE to give me a second use in base busting, i just "by accident" acquired the bacta shot, and using a +16 BE shirt, it allows me to do some great healing. Since then i managed to beat some opponents which i had no chance to even seriously scratch before taking medic into my build. And this for an effective 17 skillpoints. (The other 34 skillpoints into novice BE give me nothing in terms of combat, so those 17 points help me much more than 51 points invested elsewhere.)


While i really enjoy this new-found power, i also agree that this makes the novice medic incredibly more valuable than any other alternative i found up to now and have to admit that it's unbalanced.







Well, yes the shoulder pad is available, but... You can't wear that AND armor at the same time.



Saarkai - Rebel Ace Pilot - Flurry
MsNiL
Thu Jul 28, 2005 7:47 am
#45



IamLopan wrote:


And these are all good reasons to make medic weaker? Why not change your own templete instead of hoping others are lessened, so that you can competewithout such extreme disadvanteges. So who comes after medic? Just curious.

No. The good reason to make medic weaker is becouse it's a novice profession.

Nobody picks up 0400 Marksman or 4000 Brawler for their pvp templates do they?


Healer is a role of four:

1. Damage Dealer
2. Tank

3. Crowd Control

4. Healer


You cannot buy a competitive Damage Dealer or Tank for 29-53 skillpoints can you?

Neither should you be able to buy a competitive Healer for that amount.


You do not see me asking for200 accuracy, 100 speed, powerhammer license, armorbreak and powerattack for 29 skillpoints, becouse I know how silly that sounds. Begging to be able to fully replenish your health with just a fraction of a healer profession is equally silly.


If you want to play the role as a Healer, then be a Master Doctor or Master Combat Medic, or both.




--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.
VegitoSS
Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:28 am
#46
If you call a person with 0020 medic who can heal for 610 damage a healer role you must be fighting alot of chubas and spineflaps. I call that being able to heal yourself alittle in addition to your stim packs.

IamLopan
Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:35 am
#47

Im a 4000 CM, the medic changes arent gonna affect me in the least.I just think its funny how you hate your templete, dont want to change it, act like your persecuted, act like the one guy is an anti-jedite lol. Get over your self. Its clear to everyone that you are fighting a two front war to make your templete better while weakening all others.The guy whoyou were responding to in the last post i quoted, gave you a little rope, and BAM out came your true issues.


Whats funny is that after the skillpoints anyone spends on mastering 2 professions, they have a few skillpoints left. They choose to stick them in medic, big deal.


As a4000 CM, i think that its just so wrong that someone who instead chooses to stick their remaining points in pistoleer 0004 gets way better melee and ranged defense than me, and that someone who buys a bio shirt can do the same. Please put these on your list ofyour disadvantages to nerf. In fact lets just kill off BE's entirely. Can you smell the sarcasm?


Please keep posting though, i want the Devs to get a good look at the way you operate.


Lopan


MsNiL
Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:58 am
#48




IamLopan wrote:
Im a 4000 CM, the medic changes arent gonna affect me in the least.I just think its funny how you hate your templete, dont want to change it, act like your persecuted, act like the one guy is an anti-jedite lol.Get over your self.Its clear to everyone that you are fighting a two front war to make your templete better while weakening all others. The guy whoyou were responding to in the last post i quoted, gave you a little rope, and BAM out came your true issues.

Whats funny is that after the skillpoints anyone spends on mastering 2 professions, they have a few skillpoints left. They choose to stick them in medic, big deal.


As a4000 CM, i think that its just so wrong that someone who instead chooses to stick their remaining points in pistoleer 0004 gets way better melee and ranged defense than me, and that someone who buys a bio shirt can do the same. Please put these on your list ofyour disadvantages to nerf. In fact lets just kill off BE's entirely. Can you smell the sarcasm?


Please keep posting though, i want the Devs to get a good look at the way you operate.



No, I am not talking about Jedi at all. I am talking about non-Jedi balance and the balance between the four primary combat roles that makes up the CU.

When I say Role: Healer, I am talking about a character meant to Heal; Doctor, Combat Medic, Medic and Force Healer.



Would you want to know the real truth why I bother? Becouse when I was about to regrind Seara into a new template I quickly realised I was forced to take up 4000 doctor to be able to compete. If I took the Commando/Smuggler combo I had planned,I would be useless compared to any of the quicklygrowing amount of 4000 Doc templates out there. I consider the cheap-heal issue as great as buffs where pre-cu, screwing up the balance of the entire game.


When you say "Medic" I am talking about "Medic", the novice profession. If you suggest that a 00x0 Medic should be able to heal more than around 5-600 dmg in 6 seconds regardless of his amount of Healing Efficiency wear or enhancers, I say you ask for too much.


But if you speak about 4000 Doctor I say that more than around 1750 dmg in 6 seconds regardless of amount of Healing Efficiency wear or enhancers, its too much. Yes, that 1750dmg includes infusion+jab+shot combined.


If you say that a 4000 Combat Medic should be able to heal more than 1750dmg in 8 seconds regardless of amount of Healing Efficiency wear and enhancers, it's too much. Yes, that 1750dmg includes toss+spray+shot combined.


Only a Master Doctor should be able to completely replenish a healthbar in 6 seconds using healing efficiency wear and enhancers. A Combat Medic's role is to heal a group, not a single person, but still only a Master Combat Medic should be able to heal2500dmg in8 seconds.


If you havnt suggested otherwise, then I withdraw my comment and apologize for the accusation.




--- Cancelled 24th November 2006
Reason: The lack of multiplayer pve content and Star Wars feel.
For 3 years I have tried to find excuses to stay in game but only the expansions offered me what I subscribed for in the first place: A multiplayer Star Wars pve experience with friends around the globe. I found friends but with almost no addition of pve content they dropped out one by one. Now it's my turn.
VegitoSS
Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:08 pm
#49

I say leave it alone. You say nerf nerf nerf. Too many people in this game scream for nerfs on other professions. You my friend, are one of those people. I want things fixed like a db timer that works while you move. All warmup timers working the first time you do it instead of watching it go up and vanish. I want health mods on armor. I want krayt dragons that dont warp around so you dont know if its next to you or not. I want premium and flawless pearls. I want the many bugs in this game fixed. I want condition on armor not to decay so fast. I lost 50% condition in 1 jedi mark fight yesterday off my helmet. Thats insane!



YOU WANT MEDICS NERFED.



IamLopan
Thu Jul 28, 2005 4:08 pm
#50






MsNiL wrote:



Would you want to know the real truth why I bother? Becouse when I was about to regrind Seara into a new template I quickly realised I was forced to take up 4000 doctor to be able to compete. If I took the Commando/Smuggler combo I had planned,I would be useless compared to any of the quicklygrowing amount of 4000 Doc templates out there. I consider the cheap-heal issue as great as buffs where pre-cu, screwing up the balance of the entire game.






Ok, now im really confused. Are you saying, that everyone else only needs novice medic to have totally unrealistic, game killing excessive healing, but you need 4000 doc just to be able to compete? Are you saying that the novice medic thing only works for others, not you?


The BKB guy said it best (im replying to a different post, so cant see your name), all having novice or 0020 or 0200 medic + some bio clothes did, wasdecrease the amount of stims you have to use, and be able to help out a group with healing when you are doing PVE missions. You can only wear 1 bio shirt under armor, so you would have to choose between defense mods, and the healing efficiency, seems like a decent check and balance to me.


Or are you just saying that Doc forum is the next stop for your "balance" posts?


Lopan


IamLopan
Thu Jul 28, 2005 6:35 pm
#51



I dont think that someone without master Doc, should heal as well as someone with it, and its really a moot point since we are talking about changes pretty much already made, but dont get carried away on the amounts.


If you think things through, someone with any medic of any type, is always gonna have an advantage over someone with none in thier templete, when it comes to healing. So if everyone else has medic then yes, you are going to need it in order to compete. When that Tk/4000doc comes after you, if his heals are reduced but you can only use stims, is it really going to help you as a smuggler/commando with no medic? The only way around it, would be to make it so you can only heal as a Master doc/cm. This would A) make leveling medic interesting, B) I dont see alot of people lining up to make all of their left over skillpoints worthless, and C) Just cause another player exodus, which the game doesnt need.


Also, there is more to the Master Doc templete, that you dont get by being a 4000 or whatever Doc besides just the heals, just like as a 4000 CM i dont get to use poisons, hemmorage, paralyze etc.


I feel for the master Docs that are left as much as anybody, im an ex master Doc, who saw all of their resources become worthless. If they want to throw the Master Docs a bone im all for it, to make it more to a players advantage to fully master it again, but that doesn't mean that a 4000 doc shouldnt have much better healing than someone with nomedic in their templete.


Lopan

Message Edited by IamLopan on 07-28-2005 08:38 PM

VegitoSS
Thu Jul 28, 2005 9:00 pm
#52
He said in another post that his master doc can heal for 3000 damage in 1 sec. My medic 0020 can heal for 610. How in the world is that the same as his master doc? Please explain why anyone thinks that his 3000 damage heal = a 610 heal from medic? Before people cry that medic is as good as doc they really need to get medic and heal themselves. Medic 0020 heals for 610 on me.

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