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Thread: Master Ships and Tier 5
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Zaragoss
Sun Mar 13, 2005 6:48 pm
#1
I have to shot on an Tier5 Fighter an d shot a lot of Lasers against them. But the dont get down after 3 Shot´s
An Ace Fight has not to do with Skill the only thing what solve the question whitch Pilot is besster is the think ho can shot at first. This is not funny :-(
Make more Shield Armor and Hitpoints Aviable for any Fighter in this Game that these fighters can ´take up 10 or more hits and 80 to more for an Multiplayer Ship.
Then Build the Tier 1 to 5 Fighters with the same equipement that can use an Human player. These whould give these game more and more fun.
These can be done in an litle patch Please think abaout it.
You must not overtink the weapons only think about the max Damage that can be done to an Fighter.
hase2
Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:29 am
#2
do you really think when you dont manage to hit another player once you manage to hit him 10 times?
you think this is air you're breathing? (couldnt resist)
seriously - the damage reduction wont help anyone.
when you sit behind a gunboat and kite it, it doesnt matter if i have to land 1 or 10 hits to down you. ill land them anyway before you know what hit you.
when you are outmaneuvered in a dogfight you stay outmaneuvered regardless of damage reduction.
damage reduction shifts more and more towards equipment you use.
Thradd
Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:51 am
#3
Zaragoss wrote:
I have to shot on an Tier5 Fighter an d shot a lot of Lasers against them. But the dont get down after 3 Shot´s
An Ace Fight has not to do with Skill the only thing what solve the question whitch Pilot is besster is the think ho can shot at first. This is not funny :-(
Make more Shield Armor and Hitpoints Aviable for any Fighter in this Game that these fighters can ´take up 10 or more hits and 80 to more for an Multiplayer Ship.
Then Build the Tier 1 to 5 Fighters with the same equipement that can use an Human player. These whould give these game more and more fun.
These can be done in an litle patch Please think abaout it.
You must not overtink the weapons only think about the max Damage that can be done to an Fighter.
Look at any sci-fi film or TV show. How long do space battles last? How many times do Tie fighters or X-wings get hit before they blow up..I'm talking about solid hits, not glancing blows or shooting droids. It's usually only one or two shots then you're dead. And that's how PVP in space is and how it should be.
Player vs player ship combat should be fast and deadly and should be left alone. It is PERFECT the way it is. The only people who complain about it are the onse who get shot down all the time. I'll put it to you this way.....IF they make PVP like PVE where it takes many many shots to kill another ship...guess what...you're still going to get shot down. A good pilot will take you out just as easily as before it just might take a little longer. And I'll tell you something else...there are plenty of pilots out there who can take down a Tier 5 ship in under 5 shots. Changing player damage won't change your piloting skill and won't change your win/loss record. All it will do is give you more time to panic before you blow up.
While good gear does make a difference and can give one pilot and edge over another pilot it all really comes down to 2 things....awareness and skill.
I fly a TIE advanced in PVP and I know many many who fly Interceptors. These are ships that have most of thier mass dedicated to engines and weapons because shields and armor don't mean much in PVP. We all fly knowing that if we get hit once or twice we are dust. So that means we have to fly welland keep an eye out for the enemy AT ALL TIMES.
It's not about who shoots first but who gets the drop on the other pilot first or who can out manuver the other one. I've been in dogfights that have lasted about 2 seconds, I've been in dogfights that have lasted about 20 minutes, chasing and being chased all over a system, through astroid belts, around a starport until finally one of us makes a mistake and zigs instead of zags then it's all over.
This is all you need to be a good pilot in PVP or PVE
Good engine with high PYP stats
A weapon that can do at least 2k max damage
Awareness
Skill
Get those things and you'll be worthy to sport that Ace pilot tag over your head.
/salute
PalithiCitiezen
Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:08 am
#4
yes it might be nice to shoot down an enemy player with one or two shots, but the radar needs to be changed or at least a waring "enemy player has entered the region". it happens two times to me now, that i entered a region , no enemy player around, fighting against npcs with 10 red dots on the radar, while everytime ships respawn in deep space you can't notice enemy player who just entered the region (they are just another red dot on the radar) and these players could sneak apon me ,fire one shot and i'm down. that has nothing to do with a pvp fight, at least i feel it that way.
another thing i dislike are the multiplayer ships and their shields these shields are the same like the shields of the fighters, but a multiplayer ship is a sitting duck compaired to a fighter, so they should have slightly better shields that way there might be some more epic fights, like 2 mulitplayer ships with some fighters on each side. right now the multiplayer ships are the first down because they are easy to hit (their sice and speed) and have the same shields. at least they should last three strafing runs form one fighter (a B - 17 wasn't killed by one fly by of a me 109 or wf 190, just to illustrate what i mean)
another thing i dislike are the multiplayer ships and their shields these shields are the same like the shields of the fighters, but a multiplayer ship is a sitting duck compaired to a fighter, so they should have slightly better shields that way there might be some more epic fights, like 2 mulitplayer ships with some fighters on each side. right now the multiplayer ships are the first down because they are easy to hit (their sice and speed) and have the same shields. at least they should last three strafing runs form one fighter (a B - 17 wasn't killed by one fly by of a me 109 or wf 190, just to illustrate what i mean)
Diaso
Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:32 am
#5
DONT CHANGE ANYTHING! But the MP ships should have more shelding/armor/weapons. The Milenium Falcon took a beating on several occasions.
Thradd
Mon Mar 14, 2005 8:35 am
#6
PalithiCitiezen wrote:
yes it might be nice to shoot down an enemy player with one or two shots, but the radar needs to be changed or at least a waring "enemy player has entered the region". it happens two times to me now, that i entered a region , no enemy player around, fighting against npcs with 10 red dots on the radar, while everytime ships respawn in deep space you can't notice enemy player who just entered the region (they are just another red dot on the radar) and these players could sneak apon me ,fire one shot and i'm down. that has nothing to do with a pvp fight, at least i feel it that way.
I agree it is hard as hell to keep track of players in Deep Space.But again it all goes back to awareness. Know what's going on around you. If you're in a swarm of 10 NPC ships chances are the're in a nice tight little pattern around you. If you notice a lone blip off to one side of your radar moving in towards you chances are that's a player. New NPC spawns will stay put for the most part. And make sure you use that "Closest Player" "Closest Enemy Player" button. I use the mouse/keyboard to fly and I am always tapping my 'K' and 'L' keys. It only takes a second to check out the player situation then get back to the NPCs, and as we all know a second can be the difference between continuing your FP/loot farming and talking to a friendly space station attendant.
another thing i dislike are the multiplayer ships and their shields these shields are the same like the shields of the fighters, but a multiplayer ship is a sitting duck compaired to a fighter, so they should have slightly better shields that way there might be some more epic fights, like 2 mulitplayer ships with some fighters on each side. right now the multiplayer ships are the first down because they are easy to hit (their sice and speed) and have the same shields. at least they should last three strafing runs form one fighter (a B - 17 wasn't killed by one fly by of a me 109 or wf 190, just to illustrate what i mean)
I agree 100%!!! MP ships go down just as easy as fighters and they should be able to take a beating. Even with a full crew to make repairs, you're lucky if you can last 5 hits in PVP. I personally think Shipwrights should be able to make master level ship parts. Let them become 12pt Shipwrights and be able to make some gear that will A) be worthy of a MP ship and B) Use up some of that 5mill mass
Tumbler2002
Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:35 am
#7
Diaso wrote:DONT CHANGE ANYTHING! But the MP ships should have more shelding/armor/weapons. The Milenium Falcon took a beating on several occasions.
Eh...That is a really bad idea. At very least, they should Fix WO3 and add some indicator that other pvp players are in the area. The second one is really crucial to giving this game any hope of attracting players. Imagine walking around on the ground and other pvp players where white or blue the radar. Think that'd be fun?
I blasted 2 players last night that never even knew I was there. Fun for me but you think the other guy is likely to go pvp again, or even come into space if it happens a few more times?
Thradd
Mon Mar 14, 2005 10:35 am
#8
Tumbler2002 wrote:
Diaso wrote:
DONT CHANGE ANYTHING! But the MP ships should have more shelding/armor/weapons. The Milenium Falcon took a beating on several occasions.
Eh...That is a really bad idea. At very least, they should Fix WO3 and add some indicator that other pvp players are in the area. The second one is really crucial to giving this game any hope of attracting players. Imagine walking around on the ground and other pvp players where white or blue the radar. Think that'd be fun?
I blasted 2 players last night that never even knew I was there. Fun for me but you think the other guy is likely to go pvp again, or even come into space if it happens a few more times?
EO3 does need to be fixed.
As for those 2 players you shot down well done. You got the drop on them. Case closed. next time they'll pay more attention what is going on. If they decide to quit just because they get shot full of holes doe to thier own carelessness then they don't need to be overt. But if they take it as a lesson learned it will make them better pilots and the next time you see them you might just have a dogfight on your hands. I've been shot down twice for not watching what I was doing. Lesson learned. There has not been a third time. I've been shot down in combat because I was either sloppy or I was simply bested but never again because I wasn't paying attention. Stay alert stay alive.
WileE505
Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:39 pm
#9
Weapon Overload 3, Not Engine Overload 3
WO3 IS broken, and MUST be fixed if there is going to be any application of flight combat tactics into JTL/PvP. othersise its just to much damage per shot dilivered to a target to easily hit, which may be part of the problem. instead of focusing on weapon damage, we could focus on the ease at which one can place there weapons on a player target. Historically, aerial gunnery was an art, not a science. Mastered by very few. If a hit modifier bases on relative angle of attack, dogfights might last longer and be more interesting.
Thradd
Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:54 am
#10
WileE505 wrote:
Weapon Overload 3, Not Engine Overload 3
WO3 IS broken, and MUST be fixed if there is going to be any application of flight combat tactics into JTL/PvP. othersise its just to much damage per shot dilivered to a target to easily hit, which may be part of the problem. instead of focusing on weapon damage, we could focus on the ease at which one can place there weapons on a player target. Historically, aerial gunnery was an art, not a science. Mastered by very few. If a hit modifier bases on relative angle of attack, dogfights might last longer and be more interesting.
Very true but the mechanics of flying in space are much different that flying in an atmosphere. Some of the concepts and tactics do of course apply but you're not limited by gravity or atmospheric resistance in space. Dog fighting in space is still very much an art form. Most people just fly around in a circle until one of them makes a mistake and gets blown up. But there are pilots out there, true Aces, that will play cat and mouse for 10-20 minutes before someone scores a kill. It's a beautifull thing to see.
I personally don't like the idea of modifiers of any kind being added to JTL. When you start adding modifiers you start taking out the "twitch" aspect of it. Modifiers are best left on the ground IMO
Message Edited by Thradd on 03-15-2005 05:55 AM
Thradd
Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:49 am
#11
ONE STAR?!?!?!?! SOME DIRTY S.O.B. ONE STARRED ME!!!!! YOU SPINELSS PIECE OF TRASH!!! WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?!! JUST BECAUSE MY OPINION DOESN'T FIT YOURS?!!!!
j/k 
The fate of the universe does not hinge on the rating of my post. I think it's funny to watch people get mad about it. People will serriously get pissed over a bad post rating. Anyway, my opinions stand and one star or fifty it won't change. Silly kids
The fate of the universe does not hinge on the rating of my post. I think it's funny to watch people get mad about it. People will serriously get pissed over a bad post rating. Anyway, my opinions stand and one star or fifty it won't change. Silly kids /salute
Washell
Thu Mar 17, 2005 6:44 pm
#12
I recently had a duel in a Longprobe vs an Oppressor. Lasted roughly 1 to 2 minutes. Kept rolling, pitching and yawing and he couldn't hit me. Problem was, that way I couldn't turn fast enough to shake him of my tail. Tried boosting, get up to speed andreduce my movementsfor a jousting match, lost rear shield and armor so CtSS4 and back to the barrel rolls and loops. Tried reducing roll to get a faster turn rate, bye bye rear shield again. Kept rolling to think of something else, he scored another hit (spray enough bolts around will work eventually) that took out my shield again along with half my engine so it was over. Never stood a chance but great fun anyway.
Downside: This kind of PvP just isn't fun for a lot of players. The average pilot will get blown up before he realizes he's being attacked. A battle between two average pilots will be decided by who spots who or if they are aware of each other, who fires first in the head on fight.
hase2
Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:06 pm
#13
i think one of the problems with PvP is that most pilots dont even know the basic maneuvers like maintaining turnrate, barrelrolls, flying sideways, threedimensional movement and awareness.
not to mention wingman and squadron tactics.
they follow the PvE pattern - match speed, turn to blue arrow.
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