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Thread: Space needs content.
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EliteBlast
Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:29 am
#1
I want to be able to own my own spacestation setup a imperial starbase, I want a star destroyer for being a good little imp. Increase the rank to admiral, make space loot worth something on the ground. We need more space based events. We need a 75% reduction of damage in pvp for space. Rebels/imperials perma overt if you are scared to pvp then fly nuetral. bounty hunters should be able to get marks for space, npc and player. Jedis should get special interfaces for space. Smugglers should be able to become marks in space when they do smuggler missions.
ZalTaur
Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:37 am
#2
Agree with about 80% of what you say. If they ever allow player run space stations, they should be as difficult to obtain and maintain as player cities, ifnot more so. I don't think there should be player capital ships like star destroyers or corvettes. Otherwise, I agree, space needs content and needs more of a connection to the ground game.
atytula
Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:54 am
#3
While everyone will agree that space needs content, there are many different views of what that content might be. I would like to be able to dock with a space station and be able to walk around it. I would love to enter a Mon Calimari Cruiser and man a turret. But this content will get as old as it did on the ground. Player bases for instance is more fun to attack then defend, so not many people are geared up to place them.
What I think would be neat for PvP content is make PvP missions. Example, a Rebel Correlian Corvette is going through the Dathomir system. There are 20 rebelmissions available for defending the Corvette and 30 imperial missions for destroying the corvette. The corvette can only be attacked if an imperial has the mission for the target, and the rebels can only attack the imperials, if they have the defence mission. When you get the mission, you are given a rendevous time, and a special groupchat like channel to communicate with your allies. Once you are destroyed, you are out of the battle, but you can still win the mission if the others succeed.
This is an example of how to make dynamic PvP content and to make it fun. Everyone has a chance to succeed, and PvP isn't a surprise situation (IE:while fighting other NPCs, you get ganked). This is content because you can do this over and over again, and there can be a few different types of missions, and it won't get stale.
Tumbler2002
Mon Mar 14, 2005 11:55 am
#4
We need a 75% reduction of damage in pvp for space. Rebels/imperials perma overt if you are scared to pvp then fly nuetral.
We have a perma overt zone and it's empty, lets try making that zone more attractive for now.
Space is at 75% damage atm, if you mean to drop it 75% from where it's at now I think we should take more gradual steps first. Fixing WO3 will take a 150% bonus to firepower off most ships. Some may still use it but they will be firing a lot less. PvP damage is really high atm but in a good fight where both players are expecting the attack the time needed to land even one hit can be insane. Firing 50 shots a player might land 2-4 hits. If those hits did similar damage to PvE pvp would probably become impossible to win.
PvP is a very differnt game, the opponent is extremely tough to hit in most cases so combat can go one for some time even now.
atytula
Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:12 pm
#5
Granted, for real aces, this would be true, but I have done a lot of non PvP dogfighting and I find that most people don't know how to stay on someones tail. Most people fly only using the X and Y axis. I also use the rudder axis and the throttle to keep on my opponents tail. Typically I can be constantly shooting a player while they try to get on my tail. This means that they would be dead in todays PvP, but they stand a little more chance if damage was appropriate.
Tumbler2002 wrote:
We need a 75% reduction of damage in pvp for space. Rebels/imperials perma overt if you are scared to pvp then fly nuetral.
We have a perma overt zone and it's empty, lets try making that zone more attractive for now.
Space is at 75% damage atm, if you mean to drop it 75% from where it's at now I think we should take more gradual steps first. Fixing WO3 will take a 150% bonus to firepower off most ships. Some may still use it but they will be firing a lot less. PvP damage is really high atm but in a good fight where both players are expecting the attack the time needed to land even one hit can be insane. Firing 50 shots a player might land 2-4 hits. If those hits did similar damage to PvE pvp would probably become impossible to win.
PvP is a very differnt game, the opponent is extremely tough to hit in most cases so combat can go one for some time even now.
Tumbler2002
Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:28 pm
#6
Granted, for real aces, this would be true, but I have done a lot of non PvP dogfighting and I find that most people don't know how to stay on someones tail. Most people fly only using the X and Y axis. I also use the rudder axis and the throttle to keep on my opponents tail. Typically I can be constantly shooting a player while they try to get on my tail. This means that they would be dead in todays PvP, but they stand a little more chance if damage was appropriate.
I'm not sure I understand, how are you shooting somoene as they are trying to get on your tail? If you are shooting them they are in front of you... U the rear seat gunner in an aggressor?
xTekx
Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:28 pm
#7
So who thinks this will turn into another debate about pvp damage? lol i feel like the people who want pvp damage just don't listen to the facts. granted i can be stubborn in my views, but jeez people. the facts speak for themselves.
ok, /hijacking turned off now. hehe
back to subject at hand. More content would be cool. Docking with space stations is a great idea. Making smugglers permanately open to attack by BH's while in space or someone else, say RSF or Corsec Pilots only, would be neat. I can say this cause i'm a smuggler. 
But on the jedi idea... bad bad bad. I can't stress that enough. Jedi should NOT, get any special privilages in space. I have mixed feelings onthem getting a Starfighter, but I do not want to see them become Uber in space just because they're SOE's poster boy, aka Jedi.
EliteBlast
Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:49 pm
#8
I didnt say they should get special bonuses their jedi interfaces that work on the ground should work up in the cockpit.
xTekx
Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:56 pm
#9
EliteBlast wrote:
I didnt say they should get special bonuses their jedi interfaces that work on the ground should work up in the cockpit.
and i'd have to ask the this question... Why?
Ducimus
Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:27 pm
#10
My JTL dream:
I want to be a pirate, with a crew onboard my YT-1300, or be a crew member on someone else's pirate vessel. ( I be a fine gunnner, yaarrr!!)
I want to be able to board and plunder freighters, (but ill settle for just dock and transfer cargo)
I want my own ship to be boardable in space as part of the Imperial crackdown.
I want to have real inspace, inship combat with blasters, and fight off the boarding party.
I want to show up on bounty hunter terminals as a pirate because my noterity has gotten a bit out of hand.
Give me that, and ill resign from the imperial Navy faster than you can say privateer.
Of course as the saying goes, "wish in one hand, **** in the other, see which one gets full first." *sigh*
I want to be a pirate, with a crew onboard my YT-1300, or be a crew member on someone else's pirate vessel. ( I be a fine gunnner, yaarrr!!)
I want to be able to board and plunder freighters, (but ill settle for just dock and transfer cargo)
I want my own ship to be boardable in space as part of the Imperial crackdown.
I want to have real inspace, inship combat with blasters, and fight off the boarding party.
I want to show up on bounty hunter terminals as a pirate because my noterity has gotten a bit out of hand.
Give me that, and ill resign from the imperial Navy faster than you can say privateer.
Of course as the saying goes, "wish in one hand, **** in the other, see which one gets full first." *sigh*
atytula
Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:39 pm
#11
Simple, they are trying to get on mine, but I am staying on there's instead. Most dogfighting takes place at very low speeds. The faster player typically will overshoot while the slower player lines up for the shot. The trick is to find the sweet speed where you still have max turning capability but you are not overshooting your target. In the end, I spend most of my time 1-2m from the target going at less then 1/3 speed looking at the top of the enemies cockpit. When fighting NPCs, they always go to fast, so it is easy to stay on theactual tail.
Tumbler2002 wrote:
Granted, for real aces, this would be true, but I have done a lot of non PvP dogfighting and I find that most people don't know how to stay on someones tail. Most people fly only using the X and Y axis. I also use the rudder axis and the throttle to keep on my opponents tail. Typically I can be constantly shooting a player while they try to get on my tail. This means that they would be dead in todays PvP, but they stand a little more chance if damage was appropriate.
I'm not sure I understand, how are you shooting somoene as they are trying to get on your tail? If you are shooting them they are in front of you... U the rear seat gunner in an aggressor?
evil-bountyhunter
Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:50 pm
#12
xTekx wrote:
So who thinks this will turn into another debate about pvp damage? lol i feel like the people who want pvp damage just don't listen to the facts. granted i can be stubborn in my views, but jeez people. the facts speak for themselves.
ok, /hijacking turned off now. hehe
back to subject at hand. More content would be cool. Docking with space stations is a great idea. Making smugglers permanately open to attack by BH's while in space or someone else, say RSF or Corsec Pilots only, would be neat. I can say this cause i'm a smuggler.
But on the jedi idea... bad bad bad. I can't stress that enough. Jedi should NOT, get any special privilages in space. I have mixed feelings onthem getting a Starfighter, but I do not want to see them become Uber in space just because they're SOE's poster boy, aka Jedi.
we dont know if its jedi only yet or not but i do agree jedi should not get space bouneses ( sp?)
nicmo
Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:27 pm
#13
I agree with a few things, but not most.
The Bad
First off, owning starbases and star destroyers for players is a huge no-no. Talk about a serious lack of balance. The current setup is a little off, and will need some major work - most of which coming in the second expansion.
Rebels/Imperials being perma overt? Can you say grieving? How can newbie imps ever plan to move up in the quest if tier 4 and master Rebels are tearing them up outside Tatooine or Naboo? Definate disagree.
Jedi already have their own combat system, can cut through any kind of armor, and are already overpopulated on live servers... giving them a special advantage in space is unforgivable. I'm a Jedi myself, and my space skills reflect my own... well, skill. I don't need nor want anything that would give me an advantage - again, grieving.
As to space loot being worth something on the ground... it IS. Keep the stuff you want for your ship and sell the rest to player shipwrights or npc-chassie dealers. However, to put anything but space-specific loot up there in a mistake. Not everyone has access to JTL, so to put ground-game advantages up in space would not be fair to every player.
Smugglers being targets is considered grieving to no ends, but there IS a smuggler revamp coming up soon. I'll let SOE come up with something for that.
With those aside, you did bring up some good points.
The Good
Space-based events or quests should be added AND BE REPEATABLE, especially for high-level and master pilots. Give us something to do than just helping others. Make space an actual source of income - nothing over-the-top, but at least enough to make the guild-hall and city payments. In addition, the space quests let us extend beyond random npc-hunting and (laughable) station duty missions. We can actually analyze the situation/target, and effectively come up with a battleplan either solo, or with a group... Perfect way to spend an afternoon, without needing to go to Deep Spaceand get blown away 20 times before hitting the Corvette.
Adding bounty hunter targets in space is definately an idea to consider. A combination of ground-skills integrating with space combat would be interesting. I can see various economy problems with this, so to balance it the payouts would be lacking if anything... however, I think most would rather play the fun missions than be considered the payouts.
PvP in space definately needs to be readjusted. Space duels should be able to last at least 5-10 minutes between two exceptionally skilled pilots. In addition, there should be two types of duels - disable and death. Both are self-explanitory, death is a fight to blow your target out of the sky, disable will only go to a certain damage percent. This lets you duel your friends as much as you want with little permenant damage to your equipment, and would make tournaments interesting.
Before you make suggestions, you should give a little thought as to what's good for the game/players AND consider the pros and cons of each suggestion. Otherwise, you just get flamed....
Message Edited by nicmo on 03-14-2005 05:33 PM
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