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Thread: JTL won't save SWG
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Xodus316
Thu Oct 21, 2004 4:47 pm
#1
I played the beta for JTL for a week, and pretty much stopped playing it. In my opinion, JTL is a really crappy version of freelancer. Freelancer wasn't a great space sim, it was good, but not great like X-wing series or Wing Commander III and IV.
Joysticks really aren't needed in the game. I found it easier to use the mouse than a joystick. I got a good joystick, Saitek X45, used it for the first couple space missions, then discovered that there is no real benefit. With the mouse you can maneuver your ship just as well as with a joystick, due to the odd physics system JTL uses.
AI wise, the AI is rather stupid. 2 AI ships, they fly past you, and turn, and stay in formation. All you have to do is turn around, and start shooting and you'll kill both. 3 AI ships 1 will tend to break off from the other 2, and try to circle behind you. The only difficult part in the game is when you are chasing ace pilots and the AI manages to get behind you with say a Y-Wing and it starts shooting off missiles like crazy.
Graphics are a lot worse than I expected. Space itself is rather beautiful, the nebulas are especially nice, but that is pretty much the only impressive things. Ships themselves are fine, though Star Wars ships aren't exactly flashy to begin with 
. Laser fire looks terrible, shooting from say a tie fighter, the 2 lasers come out looking like a chunk of 3 connected lasers, really aweful.
. Laser fire looks terrible, shooting from say a tie fighter, the 2 lasers come out looking like a chunk of 3 connected lasers, really aweful. Overall I feel this is just another boring grind. It takes all of 2 minutes to figure out how to lead a target properly, and after that it is just holding down the fire button, turning, holding down the fire button again, going to a waypoint, firing, turning, firing, on and on and on.
If you like flight sims, and quality space sims, chances are you are going to be very disappointed in this game. There is little challenge against AI opponents, combat requires little tactics, and frankly it gets boring very quickly.
loomis001
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:01 pm
#3
Crazyguy111 wrote:
I'm in beta too, he's right folks, as I hate to say it.
i disagree
jackylstar
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:10 pm
#4
Omiss you never knew much of anything dude lol. JTL is cool, and the ships fly and handle well (after the noob ship). AI can be frustrating at times and are NOT always easy to take down lol. The vast majority of ppl in and around beta are pleased with the level of graphics. All I can say is this will be very fun when it goes live.....Strange Omiss not once did I see you in beta lol.
Crazyguy111 wrote:
I'm in beta too, he's right folks, as I hate to say it.
Stakex007
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:10 pm
#5
Xodus is intitled to his opinion... and Im intitled to disagree
I feel very much that these issues are not this bad, and def not game killing issues. Just my opinion tho of course... its up too everyone else to decide.
I feel very much that these issues are not this bad, and def not game killing issues. Just my opinion tho of course... its up too everyone else to decide.
Crystalis_Jedi
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:11 pm
#6
Which week was this? How can you play the BETA version, which is getting constantly updated, only ONE week and make a valid, solid, factual opinion about the game?
Xodus316 wrote:
I played the beta for JTL for a week, and pretty much stopped playing it. In my opinion, JTL is a really crappy version of freelancer. Freelancer wasn't a great space sim, it was good, but not great like X-wing series or Wing Commander III and IV.
Between one week of beta and another, I've seen sweeping changes made that changed the gameplay a lot. You either didn't play a full week, or don't pay attention to detail.
Xodus316 wrote:
Overall I feel this is just another boring grind. It takes all of 2 minutes to figure out how to lead a target properly, and after that it is just holding down the fire button, turning, holding down the fire button again, going to a waypoint, firing, turning, firing, on and on and on.
And what is an FPS? Point, shoot, dodge, shoot, dodge, shoot, dodge, shoot...
Or a platformer? Jump, attack, jump, attack, jump, attack...
All games have "patterns", complex or not. However, you can simplify ANYTHING into the same kind of simple repetitive pattern you just displayed. I could sum up all PCs games as "press key, move mouse" over and over and still be correct.
The problem with people like you is you STRIVE to find that pattern. You tear apart everything in your way to find the ultimate, unbeatable stragety/loot. Then you spam it, and that's all you do. Well, if all you ever hunt is one type of enemy, and all you use is the same gun and special... well, of course it's going to get boring! It's up to you to use variety.
You can't complain about depth when you've only checked out one side of things.
WranglerDekar
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:12 pm
#7
you played for a week....you couldn't have possibly gotten into it all that much. the graphics are much better than any of XW or TIE series games, and I think most people dont like this as much because you do the work yourself...as in get your own missions, make your own ships. You dont simply load up in space and get right to it...theres your strategy...getting a ship capable of performing to the job.
As for the AI....the ships stay in formation because they're TIE FIGHTERS!!! they're ordered and an official navy.they DO break formation if you start to attack say an interceptor or aggressor...which you must not have gotten to that level because they're rather tricky and deadly.
the blaster fire is great, and if you have a graphics card that can handle the game int eh first place you could see that. joysticks or gamepads are also an almost necessity...i don't think the mouse is gonna suffice in tougher missions...tier 1 and 2 are meant to be easier...try tier 3....you'll find your challenge
bananaboy90
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:13 pm
#8
i disagree too....for battles in space if you fight against a high tier ships (say 3-4) there will be a challenge. Those guys are amazing at flying and it takes an experienced flyer to kill them. They are not the regular "lead target, shoot, turn...ect,ect) you need real skill to kill them.
I also feel that the graphics are fine. They arent top of the line but they get the job done, plus i think the lasers look fine...you can say what you want but everyone is going to get a good look at the game on Oct 27, be there or be square 
calomac
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:16 pm
#9
I'm in the middle. I do however think, its not ready for release, and the Dev's should go back to the drawing board on many of the issues in beta. I mean, c'mon. If the patch's totally screwed up the test centers, ( all player structures were wiped b/c of one patch. Then you couldn't leave the NPC towns b/c you'd get warped right back to them if you went 500m out.) Could you imagine if these re-occur during live?!? SOE would have no customer base in this game almost!
I will repeat myself if there is a Dev looking...
JT FRICKIN L IS NOT READY FOR LAUNCH!!!
you will have the same problems to deal with just like in the glitchy, barely playable, ground game, and have to re-do most of the game later on!
Oh and another thing, if you guys have a data base issue with the ground game alone, how the hell is JTL going to be supported?!? Are you going to nerf all the fun things?!? God damn I pissed at JTLAND at the Dev's. I hope you guys get fired by l.A. I really don't care anymore.
GarVa
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:17 pm
#10
please keep this discussion constructive and it is welcome to continue, just seems like some people are on the verge of flaming so wanted to post this warning 
Crystalis_Jedi
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:34 pm
#11
I'm this color. =P
Xodus316 wrote:
WranglerDekar wrote:
you played for a week....you couldn't have possibly gotten into it all that much. the graphics are much better than any of XW or TIE series games, and I think most people dont like this as much because you do the work yourself...as in get your own missions, make your own ships. You dont simply load up in space and get right to it...theres your strategy...getting a ship capable of performing to the job.
A week is all I required. I've played a lot of flight sims, and a lot of space sims, and off the bat I can tell this doesn't come close to being considered a good space sim.
Again, any beta tester who played in the last... 4 weeks can tell you just how much the flight dynamics and physics have changed. They feel quite natural now, and much closer to XvT. A week may be enough to evaluate a finished flight/space sim, but this is an MMO, where things are already subject to change, and a beta test of that, meaning changes are much more rapid and frequent. A week is hardly enough.
Why do you think gaming magazines and websites wait about a month or two before doing a full review of an MMO? They have to play the game out to fully experience it. The initial first impression is never enough.
As for the AI....the ships stay in formation because they're TIE FIGHTERS!!! they're ordered and an official navy.they DO break formation if you start to attack say an interceptor or aggressor...which you must not have gotten to that level because they're rather tricky and deadly.
I was an imperial, and they were pirates. Even the rebels stayed in formation most of the time.
Tier 1, right? How high in the pilot skills tree did you get? The higher you get, the more aggressive and tactical the enemies get, even while staying in formation.
the blaster fire is great, and if you have a graphics card that can handle the game int eh first place you could see that. joysticks or gamepads are also an almost necessity...i don't think the mouse is gonna suffice in tougher missions...tier 1 and 2 are meant to be easier...try tier 3....you'll find your challenge
I got a Radeon 9800 Pro buddy, my graphics card could handle it fine. The blaster fire is horrible and bland.
You have two options here: Turn on "bloom", or turn OFF "bloom". You can find that in the graphics tab of the options window.
Bloom blends close-together, bright colors to create a more pronounced "glow" effect. The downside of this it that finer lines will bleed, creating globs of bright color. Turning it on makes for a prettier picture at the cost of fine detail, where as off gives you a sharper, more detailed picture without a sense of realistic glow.
Also, what resolution are you running in? I refuse to play SWG in anything less than 1280x1024, because you get the best picture at that resolution. Of course, that's purelya preference thing.I myself have a 9800 Pro, and I have no problems with the graphics in JTL. /shrug
loomis001
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:42 pm
#12
Xodus316 wrote:I flew a few missions last week, I didn't see any improvements at all, and with SOE's current patching process, it is highly unlikely they improved it so dramatically in 1 weeks time.
lol your sooo wrong, under 1 week the AI became good...
Message Edited by loomis001 on 10-21-2004 05:44 PM
Stakex007
Thu Oct 21, 2004 5:45 pm
#13
calomac wrote:
I'm in the middle. I do however think, its not ready for release, and the Dev's should go back to the drawing board on many of the issues in beta. I mean, c'mon. If the patch's totally screwed up the test centers, ( all player structures were wiped b/c of one patch. Then you couldn't leave the NPC towns b/c you'd get warped right back to them if you went 500m out.) Could you imagine if these re-occur during live?!? SOE would have no customer base in this game almost!
The structure wipe would NEVER happen on a live server. Live servers have a much better backup then these servers. The warping problem has seemed to have decreased... for me at least.
I will repeat myself if there is a Dev looking...
JT FRICKIN L IS NOT READY FOR LAUNCH!!!
Sure it is. We cant expect EVERY SINGLE bug to get fixed or we will be waiting till next fall. By the time of release the major bugs should be fixed.
you will have the same problems to deal with just like in the glitchy, barely playable, ground game, and have to re-do most of the game later on!
I dont see where your saying barely playable ground game. Me and a group of people were doing things on teh ground all day the other day to test for regresion issues. Besides some warping everything played very smooth.
Oh and another thing, if you guys have a data base issue with the ground game alone, how the hell is JTL going to be supported?!? Are you going to nerf all the fun things?!? God damn I pissed at JTLAND at the Dev's. I hope you guys get fired by l.A. I really don't care anymore.
Hmmm. Things happen in beta. We still even have a week before launch. This is a bad approuch to take in regaurds to beta. I personally think beta is going and has gone very smooth. JTL is going to be a good addon, and Im sure when it goes live people will see it for what it really is.
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