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Thread: Ships and Mass Discussion
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Rogue135
Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:54 am
#1
I would like to bring this up and get some opinions...
The way it seems to me, we weremisled before the release of JtL. I remember being continually told that "components will not affect your ships more than your skill as a pilot" and the like, but I don't see that in the game. It is my personal opinion that mass is the single most game-breaking feature with JtL, now hear me out before you start flaming.
Mass was put in the game, I assume, on a theorythat it would keep players from building super ships. In practice however, all I see is the same problems we have on the ground, there is a single ship in each profession that EVERYONE flies... I have never seen a Master Pilot flying an A-wing, TIE Fighter, Kihraxz or most other ships. Once a player Masters their chosen pilot profession, they are all forced to make a decision... Do I keep the power of this high-mass ship, or do I fly the ship I want and sacrifice the power of thosegreatcomponents I got for low mass and effectively weaker components. The Devs might have well had a single fighter for each profession, nobody flies most of them once they hit Master.
I know that this is going to be a controversial statement, but I think the game would overall be more fun if we were not bound by mass restrictions on the ships. A highly unlikely change, I know, but it is my opinion that most players would likely be flying a different fighter than what they are now, due solely to the mass. I have been thinking this over a lot, it's not like a player will be flying a Z-95 or TIE Fighter with lvl 10 parts from Novice, the component certifications cover that base already, they don't need to change that...
Reactor power and Capacitors also keep ship parts in check.
The one thing I hear most out of everyone I play with is "I would use this component, but my ship doesn't have enough mass". Maybe I'm being shortsighted, but I honestly see no reason we have mass in the first place, it certainly doesn't make JtL more fun.
Edit: The thing is, we are essentially having the same problem we have on the ground, lack of diversity. It's the Composite Clones all over again.
Message Edited by Rogue135 on 02-22-2005 05:11 AM
Erahth
Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:04 am
#2
That'd be interesting. My dream was to be an interceptor freak...I flew an interceptor all of three times. I actually used all the chassis up to then...the Light Duty, TIE/in and the TIE Fighter. I ended up going with the bomber...purely because of the mass.
I found that I could put equipment good enough in to it to make it a deadly ship. In fact, I was even flying the bomber once I got my master box...until I realised that I'd bought a pre-un-nerf, 140k mass oppressor. Now I've upgraded to the proper 170k mass one, it's not too bad.
But I would ditch both bomber and oppressor in a heartbeat, if I could put all my gear in to an interceptor!
I found that I could put equipment good enough in to it to make it a deadly ship. In fact, I was even flying the bomber once I got my master box...until I realised that I'd bought a pre-un-nerf, 140k mass oppressor. Now I've upgraded to the proper 170k mass one, it's not too bad.
But I would ditch both bomber and oppressor in a heartbeat, if I could put all my gear in to an interceptor!
darmokVtS
Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:55 am
#3
At least on my server I see aces in various ships. Rebels flying Y-, X-, A- or B-Wings, Freelance aces flying Dunelizards, Ixyiens, Rihkxyrks or M22-T Krayt Gunships, imperial aces in TIE-Advanced and TIE Oppressors.
While I'd like to see all ships as viable choices your personal view of the situation does not exactly reflect reality IMHO
.
While I'd like to see all ships as viable choices your personal view of the situation does not exactly reflect reality IMHO
.
Coran_Sienar
Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:02 am
#4
I've only been an Alliance Ace Pilot, but I can tell you that I use all of the ships (except the Z-95 and B-Wing) fairly regularly.
Ldwater
Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:04 am
#5
Yeah, I agree. It does really force people to play the superior ships and pritty much dispose of the others.
But to be honest, is that any different to any other part of the game?
Most combat professions have cerifications for weapons which superceed previous weapons, making the lower level weapons redundant.
I think the problem is that you have to provide advancement. If you gave the player all the mass in the world, but only level 1 components, it wouldn't feel any better if you upgraded to another ship.
To be honest, as players in the game, we are never mere 'soliders'. The Imperial Navy would have loads of TIE fighters as a standard fighter, where as player pilots are 'extraordinary' and have the pleasure of the better ships.
-Krovikan-
Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:42 am
#6
I fly with about 10 ace pilots, I persoanlly use a NC and Xwing, but A-Wings and B-Wings are also popular for both PvE and PvP
DonPriestt
Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:43 am
#7
I love my Rihkxyrk Ship iv been looting low mass stuff that would usually have 30k mass so Shes a deadly Son of a u kno what If my Dunelizard had more mass id be flying that Sick Gurl.
If my Dunelizard had more mass id be flying that Sick Gurl.
Ratape
Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:35 am
#8
Actually, most (really good) master pilots use all three of their ship slots. It depends on the situation. I use my dunelizard when I need a really maneuverable ship, I use my krayt when I want firepower, and I use my yt-1300 for fun.
The mass aspect of the game makes things interesting because it forces you to find lightway, yet still powerful components. It makes you find the best components to RE and decrease the weight of the ship. The better your skill is at mass management, the more power you can get on a smaller ship. A dunelizard can outfly a krayt nearly all the time, especially if the pilot in the lizzie is good.
The mass aspect of the game makes things interesting because it forces you to find lightway, yet still powerful components. It makes you find the best components to RE and decrease the weight of the ship. The better your skill is at mass management, the more power you can get on a smaller ship. A dunelizard can outfly a krayt nearly all the time, especially if the pilot in the lizzie is good.
Seloth
Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:38 am
#9
as a master SW i can say what would be nice (insane for coding maybe):
have each ship craftable for each tier. lets say you are a a-wing/tie int lover, you could fly them all the time, your progression in your space ship skill would increase the mass with each tier till a max was reached. now yes the the a-wing/tie int at each level would have less mass than a tie bomber or a y-wing, there has to be a fair trade off on mass to performance. this would still leave a style and flavor to each ship so that we are not all flying the same ship model with just different skins.
you could keep the master level ships still master only as it would give you a reason to go to ace.
oh yes (this is the edit part) i am an ace (imperial) in game so i feel the fun of trying to decide wether to fly the very neat looking tie int or the more mass tie oppressor too
have each ship craftable for each tier. lets say you are a a-wing/tie int lover, you could fly them all the time, your progression in your space ship skill would increase the mass with each tier till a max was reached. now yes the the a-wing/tie int at each level would have less mass than a tie bomber or a y-wing, there has to be a fair trade off on mass to performance. this would still leave a style and flavor to each ship so that we are not all flying the same ship model with just different skins.
you could keep the master level ships still master only as it would give you a reason to go to ace.
oh yes (this is the edit part) i am an ace (imperial) in game so i feel the fun of trying to decide wether to fly the very neat looking tie int or the more mass tie oppressor too
Message Edited by Seloth on 02-22-2005 07:43 AM
HKowalsky
Tue Feb 22, 2005 9:30 am
#10
i think the weird thing is that the fastest ships end being the biggest ones, because there is no way to fit a good engine in a low level fighter.
maybe the multipliers for speed should be changed.
Seloth
Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:03 am
#12
HKowalsky wrote:i think the weird thing is that the fastest ships end being the biggest ones, because there is no way to fit a good engine in a low level fighter.maybe the multipliers for speed should be changed.
space has no friction, or no resistance, ergo the biger the engine the more voom you get (yes voom is a technical term), mind you the faster you go in any ship makes it harder to turn on a dime. if this was water then you would be correct (mostly) in that a smaller vessel with a hull designed for less resistance would get better performace with a smaller engine.
and my tie/int had a mass 3k engine with a spd of 78, you just have to be lucky on what you loot.
Message Edited by Seloth on 02-22-2005 09:04 AM
macnider123123
Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:17 am
#13
Seloth wrote:
HKowalsky wrote:i think the weird thing is that the fastest ships end being the biggest ones, because there is no way to fit a good engine in a low level fighter.maybe the multipliers for speed should be changed.
space has no friction, or no resistance, ergo the biger the engine the more voom you get (yes voom is a technical term), mind you the faster you go in any ship makes it harder to turn on a dime. if this was water then you would be correct (mostly) in that a smaller vessel with a hull designed for less resistance would get better performace with a smaller engine.
and my tie/int had a mass 3k engine with a spd of 78, you just have to be lucky on what you loot.Message Edited by Seloth on 02-22-2005 09:04 AM
Yeah there's no friction or resistance or gravity in space, but you still have to get there by launching from the ground. Also your mass is still important for flight dynamics when you take inertia into account. Whatever, these are just details.
As to the main topic of this thread, I think that instead of getting rid of mass entirely they should give you a certain % of bonus mass as you progress through your pilot tree. This bonus would only apply to ships that are BELOW your current certification and would be proportional to how far below your cert they are. For example an Imp Ace would get a big bonus for flying a regular Tie fighter, but only a marginal one for flying a Tie Advanced.
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