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Thread: Honestly, is fighting against the new AI fun for you?
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Blackjack_Nova
Wed Nov 17, 2004 12:31 pm
#1
The "new" AIneeds to be tweaked. Sooner, rather then latter.There are no dogfighing elements to the new AI.Enemies thatloop, rotate, rolland jitter and weave are much more appealing to fight then one that have ONE maneuver, hit and run!
Enemy ships should not be able to beat you using a "Monty Hall" capability that you can not obtain. In the case of the new AI, this is the speed advantage. Instead of doing circles with some maneuvering, ememy ships now just make jousting runs at you. Because the ships are using "Gamed" engines that you can not complete with, all you can do is shot at them as they approach, track and shot them as they pass, and fire on them as they blaze away from you. If you are in a ships with a slow turning ratio, even with the "sweat spot" dialed in you have at best a few seconds to hit the enemy ship as pulls out of your range. Then you hit your boosters to get in range and the ship is turning for another jousting run. If you are in a Y Longprobe, because the fireing pattern is so tight and the ship is slow, you can end up spending a very long time destorying just one ship in this cat and mouse game. When there are more then 4 ships, there is not a moment that goes by without one of them shooting your 12'oclock.
The current AI needs to be tweaked with more varity and the ships need to be equipped with the same gear that we canget/use. The uber speed engines need to go. There should be several attack patterns used, a circle attack pattern and a jousting pattern are both ok, but mix them up a little and add in a few more for varity.
Blackjack Nova
Blackjack Nova
SupaPook
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:06 pm
#2
Oh please. Stop lying dude. You know, as well as everyone that reads this post, that your not mad about the "lack of dogfighting now".
You are mad because you cant just sit inside the NPC's turn arc and blast away at them.
Yes, I AM happy with the new AI, and it is fun for me. Part of the fun is watching the people who cant fly come on here and whine.
theoden-flurry
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:13 pm
#3
yep it is anoying cause you cant get in their turn arc but when the ships are doing hit and runn they are going to get no were if your a reb beef up your front sheilds and you wont take the slightest bit of damage while you can get severaln shots off at the ship flying at you then by the time you turn you y-wing or other slowish craft its at 600m out of the lead target and geting ready for another run in. how do you consider this fun? i bet your the type of person who gets grand theft auto then drives normaly and avoids killing if posible. an enimie that is flying eraticly than just fly at go out 600m turn come back in geting in the turn of the ship is more chalenging that just turning and knowing the other ship will fly stright onto your weapons.
Uther27
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:14 pm
#4
Lol, now don't be mean here. He was just making a valiant attempt to get yet another thread started on this.
Chances are high that the devs are going to "adjust" it. We all know that when enough people scream the devs cave. *cough*Kessel*cough*
Ducimus
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:15 pm
#5
>>Honestly, is fighting against the new AI fun for you?
No, i find it annoying, time comsuming, and generally not challenging, or fun.
No, i find it annoying, time comsuming, and generally not challenging, or fun.
theoden-flurry
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:16 pm
#6
well it's for the best a ship that flys straight in to you fire aint ai its as (artifical stupid)
SupaPook
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:19 pm
#7
Well some people will already know that I'm a pvp addict, so I dont find ANY AI fun.
However, I havent had any problem with the new AI. You just have to do this magical thing that humans with intelligence have been able to do throughout the ages.
Its called ADJUSTING.
I still havent seen any problem getting in on ships tails. You just have to learn how to fly.
theoden-flurry
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:21 pm
#8
its posible to get on a ships tail in a small manouverable ship but in bigger slower ships its been made so by the time you turn its out of range and geting ready to run back in to play pac man with your blaster fire.
SupaPook
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:21 pm
#9
Also for reference sake, those calling the straight run in AI stupid?
Throughout history, the head on confrontation has been the deadliest manuever in flight combat, favoring the better pilot. The high speeds allow you to shoot and manuever to evade the enemies shots with less time for the opponent to evade.
Reduce thrust early, and turn WAY before you think you should turn, then slap boosters, and you'll find yourself right on the AI's tail.
Its AN NPC FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. You guys are getting outsmarted by code. Thats straight up sad.
Aden_Nak
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:22 pm
#10
Capital Letters. Punctuation. Subjects. Predicates. Check them out, eh? I'm sorry, I just can't read that. It makes my brain cry.
That being said, I PREFER the concept of the new AI to the old. The old AI was a dead end embarrassment. Is the new AI perfect? NO, not by a long shot. Is it better? Yes. It does a better job because the enemies are now harder to kill. Yeah, so the tactics they use are "cheap". Well. . . so what? Isn't that what you say, more or less, when an opponent in a game uses a stragegy that is repetitious but you are unable to counter?
The AI needs tweaking, I think, in the seconds AFTER the joust. The joust is proper and should be there. The insistence of the AI to then run off into the distance, turn, and joust again infinitely does NOT belong there. However, the old way, the MOB would joust once, and then drop into a wide arc, allowing people to pick them off with ease. This is an improvement on that AI because now the MOB attempts to clear firing range and NOT get picked off.
The obvious next stage of the AI will be for it to incorperate evasive maneuvers in its post-joust pattern. And the stage after that, I presume, will be an aggressive attempt to drop on your six even post-joust. These things need to come in stages, since MMOs are really nothing but an endless beta of possibilities. But is the AI better than before? At some things yes, at other things no. But at least it's TRYING not to get shot down now. Like it or not, it's more effective than before.
That being said, I PREFER the concept of the new AI to the old. The old AI was a dead end embarrassment. Is the new AI perfect? NO, not by a long shot. Is it better? Yes. It does a better job because the enemies are now harder to kill. Yeah, so the tactics they use are "cheap". Well. . . so what? Isn't that what you say, more or less, when an opponent in a game uses a stragegy that is repetitious but you are unable to counter?
The AI needs tweaking, I think, in the seconds AFTER the joust. The joust is proper and should be there. The insistence of the AI to then run off into the distance, turn, and joust again infinitely does NOT belong there. However, the old way, the MOB would joust once, and then drop into a wide arc, allowing people to pick them off with ease. This is an improvement on that AI because now the MOB attempts to clear firing range and NOT get picked off.
The obvious next stage of the AI will be for it to incorperate evasive maneuvers in its post-joust pattern. And the stage after that, I presume, will be an aggressive attempt to drop on your six even post-joust. These things need to come in stages, since MMOs are really nothing but an endless beta of possibilities. But is the AI better than before? At some things yes, at other things no. But at least it's TRYING not to get shot down now. Like it or not, it's more effective than before.
Hellscream420
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:24 pm
#11
well what can you expect, no matter what they change there will always be people that dont like the change. Thats how it is with pretty much every patch. IMO i liked how dogfights were before because it actually took skill to get behind your prey, now you just wait for them to go straight to get behind em... I do agree, however, that something needed to be done because too many people where having problems manuevering and would get stuck in 'combatloops' with NPCs that would take too long to destroy, I knowI got stuck in a few before I learned to slow down and turnwhen they werecoming straight at me instead of trying to hit them as many times as possible before they flew by. Maybe changing the time they fly straight would add more to the dogfight feel, butstill solve the problem that people had with 'combat loops'
Ducimus
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:43 pm
#12
>>However, I havent had any problem with the new AI. You just have to do this magical thing that humans with intelligence have been able to do throughout the ages.
Its called ADJUSTING.
>>
Been there, done that, bought the T shirt. I can kill them just fine, with little effort. The problem is, now fighting is just an irritation. Like i said in another post, i want evasion, i want to see immelmans, siccors, real flight maneuvering, not jousting.
I dont fly a ship or dogfight anymore, i sit in a gun turret with shields.
Its called ADJUSTING.
>>
Been there, done that, bought the T shirt. I can kill them just fine, with little effort. The problem is, now fighting is just an irritation. Like i said in another post, i want evasion, i want to see immelmans, siccors, real flight maneuvering, not jousting.
I dont fly a ship or dogfight anymore, i sit in a gun turret with shields.
Maxila
Wed Nov 17, 2004 2:54 pm
#13
I have issue with the insane speed they gave teir 5 ships in Kessel now, the AIseems fine.
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