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UnicronVII wrote:
Ive been flying around in my beatup old Oppressor since JTLS came out! Looking for a new fighter, what would you guys recommend for a great PvP ship that an IMP Ace can use? Ive been hearing about the Kash ships, but ive hardley even been on Kash since RotW came out..

Thanks folks

Former Admiral Amon-Ra of ICE

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I use my TIE advanced in PVP, what the above poster said about having a high y/p/r engine is paramount. These things will turn and slide like nobodies business with the right equipment. Save mass on your guns - I use a lvl 5 and lvl 4 totally 7k mass for a total of 3k dmg - more than enough for pvp with wo4 running.

If you use the RGI be aware some people will consider it cheating (as the hitbox is small and shielded by the solar panels) and they are probably right. I only use my RGI for pwning Lord Cyssk and other high level PVE content.

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mclouj wrote:

I use my TIE advanced in PVP, what the above poster said about having a high y/p/r engine is paramount. These things will turn and slide like nobodies business with the right equipment. Save mass on your guns - I use a lvl 5 and lvl 4 totally 7k mass for a total of 3k dmg - more than enough for pvp with wo4 running.

If you use the RGI be aware some people will consider it cheating (as the hitbox is small and shielded by the solar panels) and they are probably right. I only use my RGI for pwning Lord Cyssk and other high level PVE content.

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1. the hitbox is small, but not much smaller than a JSFs. there arethreads in the pilot forum documenting this.


2. the hitbox is also not protected in any way by the solar panels, there are threads on the pilot forum documenting that as well.


3. the reason it is harder to hit than a JSF is the optical illusion of aiming for a point on a target that is bigger than said point, not knowing which side is up or down in fast paced space combat, and the fact that the IGI is a 1.0 speed mod ship, making it naturally more difficult to hit.

Here's my run down on all the ships that are available to an Imperial Ace. These are my observations only. When JTL launched I was one of the more prominent Imps on my server in space (at the time second only to Viduus IMHO). I've helped countless pilots achieve their Ace status for just about every squadron and faction. Here's my thoughts....

IMHO... (in no particular order)

• TIE Intercepter (the original!) You'll need some good re'ed components and have to go really tight on your mass, but I love this ship (This is the ship I fly in PvP so when I kill someone they have no arguement what so ever. Also Mine carries a concussion launcher and chaff. There's a challenge for ya, get all that into 50k mass!)


• TIE Advanced. Same manuevorability as above with increased mass and an additional gun. Also a great ship.


• Royal Guard TIE. Dev's don't fix things and Coor's ignore things. But if they'd fix the hitbox this would be my top choice. I don't fly it currently because too many people whine.


• Heavy Mass TIE Fighter. Great little ship. 95k or so mass. 1 blaster and 1 missle tube but good stuff. More manuevorable than the Intercepters and advanced with plenty of mass to play with components.


• Eta-Actis2. Again, lots of mass, 2 blasters and a missle tube. Lots of fun and manuevorable as all get out, but again. I don't fly it in PvP due to whiners.


• Bellbulba. Identical in mass, weapons, and manuevorability as above but personally I didn't like the "style" of this ship so I don't fly it. It's kinda like a slung back 57 Chevy IMHO.


• Oppressor. Before the ROTW ships came out this was the ship to have for an Imperial ACE. 3 missle tubes, 2 blasters, and good mass meant you could survive a few hits from an AWing and still get a Spacebomb 1 up his tailpipe. (More useful in PvE after ROTW)


• Aggressor. Yeah, I said Aggressor. If you leave off the rear gun you have plenty of mass to make this a fun little ship. I really like the wing design too. Not so much for PvP but for an up and coming pilot this is a great little workhorse. (More useful in PvE after ROTW)


• FireSpray. 209k mass, 2 weapons, 2 missle tubes. I used to actually use this in PvP. Has the largest hitbox in the game so you're a big flying bullseye in PvP especially since the advent of these itsey bitsey ROTW ships that turn at insane rates. This ship is strictly PvE now. You could survive plenty of hits in PvP due to the increased armor and shields you can carry but you'll never turn fast enough to make it worth going up against any of the snub fighters or ROTW ships.


• Decimator. Wait till publish 24 before attempting to survive Deep Space in one of these. Currently a fully crewed Deci (5 or more people) can survive for a while out there assuming that people are gunning well, using the proper droid programs at the right times, and repairing components in flight. Problem is with Weapon Overload being bugged (STILL) just about any fighter will take you out in 10 seconds or less. (From what I hear... with the new POB Only components coming out in Pub 24 these ships will finally be true contenders ni Deep Space. Here's to hoping!)


• Y-8. Again, same deal as the Deci. When publish 24 hits this ship wil get 2 additional forward arcing turrets. that make 4 turrets, 1 forward firing weapon and 1 missle slot. Through on top of all that the new POB components and you have the first player flown gunboat. Mining vessel my butt! With all that potential lord knows this will be my Mini-Capital Ship for sure.

I don't want to be a bandwagon pilot and scream that they need to NERF the ROTW ships. I do believe compared to the original JTL ships they are way out of balance. I actually like the new ships but pretty much refuse to fly them in PvP due to thefact that they have become the "composite armor in space".I expect there will be more ships released later though that are even more out of balance than these knowing this dev team. As I noted above there's ships with bugged hitboxes, Droid Programs are bugged since launch, Rebel Station in DS has been bugged since ROTW Launch, etc... etc.. etc... Thats why I don't fly as much as I used to.

There was a time when the only reason I logged on was to go fly and to PvP. Now it seems to me that JTL is on a downward slope and fading fast. I blame the bugs and imbalance but maybe MMORPG players just aren't interested in twitch based space flight sims. I dunno. I'm hopin that the new POB components, the emergence of the YT-2400, the Y8 fixes, and maybe... just maybe they'll fix the major issues with the ROTW ships and bugged proggies might be able to drum up some more excitement for JTL. Here's to hope!

/bowRespectfully

Message Edited by Vegitaa on 10-07-2005 07:52 AM

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Aidy wrote:
1. the hitbox is small, but not much smaller than a JSFs. there are threads in the pilot forum documenting this.

I'd disagree there, the hit box is much smaller than the JSF, I can hit JSFs without a problem. The Red TIE is a lot bigger than the jedi fighter, therefore, the hit box being the same size, or as it actually is, smaller, is not right is it?

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Did you actually read past that first part on my post? or just sieze on one aspect and attempt to refute? There were 2 more parts and comments that followed after that.

Just because you can hit JSFs without a problem is completely annecdotal, AND I gave you the reasons why you actually do hit the JSF more in my post. I respect the fact you think the hitbox is bigger on the JSF, but I also know for a fact that it is not. Go read the threads and do the tests to verify if you don't believe me. There's even screenshots. Oooo.

As far as the hitboxes not matching the model size, I addressed that too, if you had actually read the entire post. Yes, the hitbox is smaller than the model, yes that initially leads you to think "wow wth!" but why don't people complain when 90% of the other ships in the game have hitboxes that don't match the model size? It's ok that empty space scores a hit on ships with hitboxes larger than the model? It's ok when other ships have "misplaced" hitboxes and areas that are unhittable? Convenient that the argument only falls on the smallest ship or is it due to the fact that nobody really realizes how out of wack some of the other ships hitboxes are?

There is no evidence whatsoever to support that the IGI hitbox size is anything but intentional given the rampant discrepencies between model size and hitbox in the rest of the game. People have to stop screaming "cheatership!' and 'omg bug' when the only thing to back up their claim is that it's the smallest ship with a hitbox that does not match the normal tie interceptor model. Hitbox not matching model size is not a valid counterpoint because 90% of the ships in the game have hitboxes that do not match the model size.

Personally, the only thing that irks me about the IGI is the fact that it called attention to all the other stupid hitbox problems. Now, I see stupid cubes that don't match models everywhere, it really pulled back the curtain. It made me question how much real thought actually went into deciding hitbox sizes in the scope of creating a fluid and balanced PVP system. It annoys me to no end because I firmly believe the validation for the JSF's stupidly small hitbox is that it matches the model somewhat, and I believe the dev excuse for not rectifying the problem created by these stupidly small ships will be "we don't want the model not to match the hitbox". It's absurd.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, if someone took the time to do a ship by ship comparison with screenshots and the hitbox model outlined on each screenshot taken from a fixed distance, people on this forum would be up in arms over the absurdities. Once you know the real hitbox size of ships, and how none of them correspond to the models, it makes you think that the developers did not take PVP or PVE into consideration when designing these ships one bit.

Or maybe they did careful analysis and tests and are playing on a level I cannot comprehend and eventually all will be right.

(oh and fyi, just to refute the invariable arguement that is to follow from someone about me flying an IGI, or being imperial, i have a rebel/neutral/ and imperial toon, 95% of my 200+ kills come from oppressor use, and the other 5% come from kihraxh (sp) krayts, b-wings, heavy x-wings, igi, heavy tie, and tie adv. i've fought against the IGI before,i know exactly how difficult it is to hit, and exactlyhow a ship with that sized hitbox will permiate through the game. i'mnot a fan of the decision to put it in, but calling the ship bugged or a cheatership is flawed.)

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quadpers0n wrote:

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Aidy wrote:
1. the hitbox is small, but not much smaller than a JSFs. there are threads in the pilot forum documenting this.

I'd disagree there, the hit box is much smaller than the JSF, I can hit JSFs without a problem. The Red TIE is a lot bigger than the jedi fighter, therefore, the hit box being the same size, or as it actually is, smaller, is not right is it?

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Did you actually read past that first part on my post? or just sieze on one aspect and attempt to refute? There were 2 more parts and comments that followed after that.

Just because you can hit JSFs without a problem is completely annecdotal, AND I gave you the reasons why you actually do hit the JSF more in my post. I respect the fact you think the hitbox is bigger on the JSF, but I also know for a fact that it is not. Go read the threads and do the tests to verify if you don't believe me. There's even screenshots. Oooo.

As far as the hitboxes not matching the model size, I addressed that too, if you had actually read the entire post. Yes, the hitbox is smaller than the model, yes that initially leads you to think "wow wth!" but why don't people complain when 90% of the other ships in the game have hitboxes that don't match the model size? It's ok that empty space scores a hit on ships with hitboxes larger than the model? It's ok when other ships have "misplaced" hitboxes and areas that are unhittable? Convenient that the argument only falls on the smallest ship or is it due to the fact that nobody really realizes how out of wack some of the other ships hitboxes are?

There is no evidence whatsoever to support that the IGI hitbox size is anything but intentional given the rampant discrepencies between model size and hitbox in the rest of the game. People have to stop screaming "cheatership!' and 'omg bug' when the only thing to back up their claim is that it's the smallest ship with a hitbox that does not match the normal tie interceptor model. Hitbox not matching model size is not a valid counterpoint because 90% of the ships in the game have hitboxes that do not match the model size.

Personally, the only thing that irks me about the IGI is the fact that it called attention to all the other stupid hitbox problems. Now, I see stupid cubes that don't match models everywhere, it really pulled back the curtain. It made me question how much real thought actually went into deciding hitbox sizes in the scope of creating a fluid and balanced PVP system. It annoys me to no end because I firmly believe the validation for the JSF's stupidly small hitbox is that it matches the model somewhat, and I believe the dev excuse for not rectifying the problem created by these stupidly small ships will be "we don't want the model not to match the hitbox". It's absurd.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, if someone took the time to do a ship by ship comparison with screenshots and the hitbox model outlined on each screenshot taken from a fixed distance, people on this forum would be up in arms over the absurdities. Once you know the real hitbox size of ships, and how none of them correspond to the models, it makes you think that the developers did not take PVP or PVE into consideration when designing these ships one bit.

Or maybe they did careful analysis and tests and are playing on a level I cannot comprehend and eventually all will be right.

(oh and fyi, just to refute the invariable arguement that is to follow from someone about me flying an IGI, or being imperial, i have a rebel/neutral/ and imperial toon, 95% of my 200+ kills come from oppressor use, and the other 5% come from kihraxh (sp) krayts, b-wings, heavy x-wings, igi, heavy tie, and tie adv. i've fought against the IGI before,i know exactly how difficult it is to hit, and exactlyhow a ship with that sized hitbox will permiate through the game. i'mnot a fan of the decision to put it in, but calling the ship bugged or a cheatership is flawed.)

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