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Polishing the Space Expansion

I have been a Star Wars fan for as long as I can remember. I was into the various Lucasarts games released though I always had this dream for a game I thought would never happen. One where you could fly in space, fight on the ground, and do whatever you want in the Star Wars universe we've come to know. I am pleased to see that Star Wars Galaxies has struck close to this dream game. However, as many of us know, the game itself (while focusing specifically on JTL here) can use some polishing. Below is a quick list of the major points brought up throughout this post:

1. Focus on content. It's what distinguishes one game from the next.
2. Galactic Civil War. Draw from other Lucasarts games. Enhance the experience. Make it Star Wars.
3. Missions. Goal: Players enjoy missions. Distracts them from grinding and skill advancement.
4. Content is good. Meticulous content is better.
5. The vastness of space. Introducing the real outer rim.
6. Coruscant Space Sector.
7. Surface and space become one. The making of a more interactive JTL.
8. In Concept, In Development, In Testing, In Game.
9. Thanks. The great things about SWG.

Content is Everything
I always like to start out with "content" when making posts on how to improve this game. You can have the greatest graphics, the largest worlds, and the best price for that matter, but, content is what sells games. People have to want to play it. It is often difficult to devise such content, but for SWG that shouldn't be so. The story is already written. The Galactic Civil War should be at the center (not necessarily the only content). It is the content. In which case, we turn to improving the Galactic Civil War in space:

Galactic Civil War
I know we all can recall that famous scene at the very beginning of Episode IV: A New Hope. The massive Star Destroyer fills the screen, the fight between corvette and the SD ends in a bordering and capturing of the vessel. Or what about the final battle in Episode VI: Return of the Jedi. Granted, its easier to depict and create those scenes when you have a film crew and a decent budget covering your rear. So how do we go about making those scenes, that atmosphere, a part of Jump to Lightspeed? Here are some suggestions at improving the GCW in space:

1. Content: Once again we are brought back to content. If we can figure this out, then the rest will fall into place. What is happening in the galaxy? Which planets are under control by imperials? Which have rebel influence? What degree of influence or control? These are the broad questions. They can be answered fairly easily. The fact that you can answer them (ex. Naboo is under strict imperial control) demonstrates that there is some degree of content in the game, there is some story behind it. That's good. But not good enough. We'll come back to this when we deal with what I call meticulous content.

2. Random Power Patrols: Now that the stage is set, the broad questions answered, we can start making it visible. One lone stormtrooper telling me on the ground that Naboo is under imperial control isn't going to do it. We won't even worry about that, since we are concerned with JTL here, but lets look at the possibilities. If Naboo is under the control of the Empire, than they obviously want to ensure it remains that way. The RSF currently patrols the space sector around Naboo and Rori, that's great, but again we need more. Occasionally, maybe have a Imperial cruiser enter the system and dispatch a host of ties to scout the surrounding area. Any rebels or criminals in the area will be dealt with. These patrols would be random, they could perform inspections of cargo's and the like. This creates a better environment for Smugglers (who might have to make a run for it), it also forces the rebels to be on their guard, giving them that underdog feel they are all searching for.


3. Fleets: Star Destroyers were a common thing. In A New Hope, two light star destroyers were sent after Han Solo and the Millennium Falcon alone. Not saying this should be common practice in game, just pointing out that Star Destroyers need to be visible in JTL. They certainly can be incorporated in the random patrols. Next up, is fleets. A war is going on. There need to be armies and fleets. The size of the Empire is its strength. Again, this needs to be visible in game. Fleets can move, which we will come to later, but right now I am referring to a stationary fleet. The progress of time is essentially slow in game, so we will use that to our advantage. Lets say there is a Coruscant Space Sector. The capital of the Empire. Here, there is a lot of commercial and military traffic, a hub of activity. The many space stations orbiting the planet serve numerous purposes. They arm, transport, house, and repair personal and ships. Just saying this is what they do if it were a real star wars universe. I wouldn't be surprised to find a massive fleet at Coruscant, rearming, patrolling, defending the capital, waiting to make an offensive move (Not the only fleet, but a fleet nonetheless). How does this fit in game? Well... This provides a clear view of the sheer power of the Empire. The Star Destroyers don't necessarily even have to move, they can be docked at the space stations. The swarms of ties alone could stop any assault by the rebels. The point here is, it sets the right atmosphere and provides a host of opportunities for Imperial players. (I will discuss this more when we come to the Coruscant Space Sector Proposal).

I am also aware that Star Destroyers are apparently "in the works", so I believe. Just suggesting ways to use them. Next, lets turn our attention to individual missions. The quests required to advance through your skill-tree.

Missions
The missions themselves need to feel more like an adventure and less like an obligation. I think a great goal to reach in this game, is to have the players so focused and excited for the missions, the adventures, and content, to the point where they aren't even looking at their stats. What I mean by that is, where there is no need to grind, or worry about getting 20000 more xp, etc... Obviously, this is the dilemma the dev team faces and has been trying to get it worked out. Here are some suggestions to improving space missions and combats:

I'll turn to the rebels as an example. You head to the rebel pilot trainer. You want this to be interactive. You want to feel singled out, as if you are the only one being told this information, not that you are just doing something the game scrambled together to keep the players busy. When you speak to the trainer, the mission should be detailed. It should have many elements to it. It should be exciting and fun. I think JTL does this fairly well, but there is still room for polishing.

1. Mission Briefings: The following shouldn't be too difficult to implement. When receiving your mission from your trainer, a screen should pop up. This can come from your radial menu, a droid, the interface, whatever. This screen than shows a clip of the mission. It explains the aircraft involved, the objective, and so forth in a step by step procedure. For those of you who have played X-Wing Alliance, you know the sort of thing I am talking about. Prior to every mission in that game, this is the sort of briefing that took place. It would be great if that could be implemented in to Star Wars Galaxies.

2. NPC Involvement: The missions shouldn't all be solo. Our players want to participate in the GCW, not be the only one fighting it. For that reason, the missions should be a little more complex than they are right now. For example, you know from the mission briefing that you are to hyper to the Yavin IV sector. Waiting there is a squadron of x-wings and y-wings that will participate in the mission. These are NPC's. They talk to you. They say things like, "Y wings will go for the capital ship. X-Wing's take care of the fighters." All of this would be discussed in the mission briefing, but here, you need to have them chat as if they were real. If one of them loses their shields, get them to ask for help. This sort of details makes the game much more enjoyable.



Details, Details, Details
The level of content also plays a major factor in the success of a game. The more detailed it becomes, the more real it seems, therefore the more enjoyable it is. When a player is faced with loading screens, jumping from ground to space, city to city, or vehicles magically appearing out of thin air, it eliminates this sense of reality. Here are some suggestions at adding more detail to the space expansion:

1. Hangar Bay: You should be able to walk around your ship while it is on the ground. This will help in merging the two ground aspect and space aspect of the game. At the starship terminal, make an option, to inspect your ship while it is in the hangar bay. Here, you are taken to a enclosed portion of the Starport, your ship sits alone in the hanger, and you can walk around it and inside it. Here, you can manage your ship.

2. Cut-scenes: Make some small blips, showing your ship leaving the starport and heading into space. Show a cut-scene when landing anywhere, your space house, center, star destroyer, etc. The option to turn this feature off should be given to players in the event that they don't want to see these every time.

Space Sectors
The freedom to explore while wandering on a planet is a great aspect of this game. This needs to be carried over into space. There needs to be many sector's, many which seem to serve no real purpose, though may one day hold a surprise. These sectors, essentially, will not have any planetary docking station. What I mean by that, there will be no option to land on a particular planet because that planet will not be supported by SWG. These space sectors may have stations that serve other purposes or they could be just space. Here are examples of some possible space sectors:

1. Asteroid Belt: Some planet (not inhabited) has an asteroid belt which is rich in mining resources. On the outskirts of the asteroid belt is a mining space station. Now there aren't all that many bandits or any real presence from any faction. However, the random patrols can come at any moment. The rebel fleet itself might show up (come to this later), or maybe just a swarm of pirates. This doesn't always have to occur. It needs to be a surprise and out of the ordinary.

2. Luxury Apartments: The reasoning behind my supporting apartments and not housing is, well, the actual apartment complex's would be placed by the developers and not the players. If players were given the freedom to place houses wherever they wish in space we would be seeing something very similar to that on the ground. I don't want to have to dodge space houses as I travel from one space station to the next. The apartment concept is very simple. A rather large complex, which can serve other purposes (cantina, shipyard, whatever) rents rooms to players. Due to the location of these apartments, they don't tend to be for the financially challenged. Which keeps the number of available apartments down because not everyone will be able to afford it. The maintenance works just like that of the one on your house. Simple. (I personally could care less if this were left out. Just thought others might like it.)

3. Rebel Fleet: The rebel fleet is relatively small compared to the Imperial Navy, therefore, it constantly needs to be on the move, hiding, striking when it can. Lets say there are a total of four outer rim space sectors. These space sectors contain nothing really, some just space, others space platforms here and there. No real imperial presence (except for the occasional random patrol). The rebel fleet will always be in one of these sectors. It moves frequently, so you never really know which one of the four it will be in. The fleet itself will contain capital ships, Mon Calamari's, frigates, etc... This is essentially the rebel equivalent to the Coruscant Sector. The fact that it moves frequently gives the average rebel player the feel of a desperate struggle. Like the Coruscant Sector, the rebel fleet gives the rebel player the options to land, receive missions, and carry them out as if they were members of a particular cruiser or squadron.

4. Outer Rim Cantina: Somewhere far from most civilized planets, lies the Outer Rim Cantina. This cantina is a haven for scum, bounty hunters, smugglers, or most criminals. This provides a lot of options for the Freelance pilots. Freelance pilots can however, based on their chosen trainer and allegiance on the ground, perform certain missions for either the rebel alliance or the Empire. I'll discuss this in the Coruscant Sector section.

5. Blind Jump: This feature is one that many wouldn't want to do. If you find yourself in a tight situation and have to make the jump into hyper-space, you can do so "blindly", allowing you to make the jump and not waiting for the percentage to reach 100. This, however, takes you anywhere. It may take you to some safe location one time, though in an unfortunate circumstance it may take you to a hideout of pirates. Also, this will likely be exploited by many in pvp. To avoid this, ships should be able to "track" other ships. If they have particular skill they can track the other players jump, informing them of the new sector they are in. This allows them to follow them and finish them off if you will.

Coruscant Space Sector
As of right now. The Galactic Civil War seems like a distant thing. The planets we have don't seem to be heavily involved. There are no (or few) star destroyers, frigates, corvettes, calamari's, atat's, and all the other heavy machinery. Its as if we're watching from a distance, waiting to hear the news from the front rather than participating in it. I feel some of the suggestions I have already made will help change that. Here's another. I know the nightmare it would be to create the planet Coruscant. The Lag would completely shut down my computer, including those in a five mile radius from me. It would be a disaster. But what about a Coruscant Space Sector? This could serve as a hub for all imperial activity. Just as the rebel fleet moving throughout the deep reaches of space is for the Rebellion. The Coruscant Space Sector will have the planet itself, covered in its urban environment, looming in the background. Many, many, many space stations, repairing and preparing star destroyers and other ships. These star destroyers don't even have to move, they can be stationary. Many, many, many ties (moving in formation, no more loners!). This will provide the player with a sense of that Imperial might we are looking. A great deal of quests can originate from here, drawing the Imperial player. Rebels can attempt an attack (likely to be repulsed) due to the large fleet protecting the capital. But one never knows.

And if this is even being considered. Do it right. Let the players board the Destroyers or the Space Stations. Let them see their character actually interact with it. Not fly up to it and press the "\" key.

Dock-able Space Stations
Creating dock-able space stations and ships will help bring the elements in An Empire Divided together with the elements found in Jump to Lightspeed. Dock-able space stations can serve a variety of purposes.

Above all, it allows the player to be a part of the space feel, while still walking around and seeing their character first hand. We get a glimpse of this in our ability to walk around our ships. If were were allowed to walk around space stations, glancing outside, it will really make a difference. The divide between the main game and the expansion is something that we need to try and eliminate. This is one great way in doing that. Space shouldn't just be for starfighter combat and personally spending ten minutes flying from one space station to the next instead of taking the shuttle. There needs to be more up there.

Commerce
As of right now, there really is no space commerce taking place. The mining is heading in that direction which is good. There are many great threads going around introducing some great ideas at improving commerce in space. Here are some fairly straightforward ideas:

Public transportation, that is the shuttles, are operated under the control of the Empire. What if, at times, particular ports were under watch by stormtroopers, in an effort to identify smugglers or high level rebel characters. This will force them to turn to players to shuttle them between planets. Sort of like what we see in A New Hope when Han Solo decided to take Obi Wan and Luke to Alderan.

Another idea is maybe Master Merchants or business owners of some sort can establish their business in space in certain sectors. There should be strict restrictions for this, in order to keep things organized and neat in space. This will increase player traffic and players will actually have a destination in space, not just a means of getting from one planet to the next.

In Concept, In Development, In Testing, In Game
For those of you who have been members of this community for a while, you probably noticed that those developing this game seem to separate it into those four categories. I have no problems with that, it seems to be a good method. However, it is important to make sure that all four areas have equal representation, all have to work together and up to par in order for this game to be the success it can be. For example, if the concept aspect of it is doing fantastic, some really good ideas coming from the team, though the development is lacking, than the concepts don't really matter because they are not being developed. Thats what we have going on here. The "In Game" is lacking. There are some great ideas coming from the teams. Everything I just stated above is concept related. Its not intended to be a part of a new expansion, rather, a polishing of an expansion already released. Therefore, something already in game. I think it would be great if the developers could just assign a few individuals to focus on nothing else but what is already in game. Concern themselves with nothing else. Just fix the problems there now and enhance the pleasures.

Thanks
I know a lot of this seems like complaining but its not intended to be. I wouldn't be writing this long post if I didn't already love this game. My intentions are to improve it to the potential it can be. I love so much about Star Wars Galaxies. I love choosing my own profession out of countless others, ranging from chef to bounty hunter. I like walking around my luxury cruiser and watching battles going on outside. I like the fact of owning a house and decorating it, or the effects that result from blasting an x-wing to pieces. (Notice all the details! Details, Details, Details!). I know it hasn't been easy for the developing team. There is so much going on behind the scenes that we do not know about. I recall the excitement of starting a PA one year prior to launch and participating in Beta. The times where we had to walk everywhere, no player cities, where combat medic destroyed everyone, when people didn't know how to become jedi's, or when buffs were non-existent. I've had a ton of fun and I expect to have a lot more fun in the future. I only hope it will go on for longer than I expect it to. These changes, if were just polish what we already have, will really change the life-span of this game. Thats all from me for now.

I look forward to hearing all of your comments, ideas, problems, and suggestions. I am sure more will come to me, some of which that I have written I may find that I disagree with upon reading it over, but let the discussion begin.

Message Edited by CrevBelos on 06-20-2005 12:03 AM

NIce i agree with everything here this should all be done

Thanks bud. Any suggestions or thoughts from anyone? What else would you like to see "polished"? From what I hear, at least that post circulating on these forums recently, the devs have been working on "docking" with a Star Destroyer Hanger, and then taking over a corvette. If this is true, than the devs are on the right track, no suprise there. I just hope it is true.

I posted in another thread some of the things I would like to see. Read your brilliant post and thought I would share what little I had:

1.) The removal of the Interplanetary travel system except between moons and their mother planets (ie Rori > Naboo).

2.) The removal of the "travel" button from the Starship terminals. With Kashyyyk , you have to launch into space and hyperspace to the Kashyyyk system, then get to the station and land. Why not do this for every planet? (except the moon/planet) relationship mentioned above.

3.) The removal of the restriction to access the starship terminal while in combat. Never have understood this one to be honest. How many scenes did we see in the movies of people running for their lives to their ships so they could escape? Why can't this be reflected in game? In addition, if you do enter space from the ground while in combat, opposing factions starfighters could be dispatched to bring you down as soon as you pop in space. (similar to the ambush you get when doing one of the Kashyyyk quests, think its the mining quest.)

as stated on the other thread, none of the travel options I propose here would apply to Shuttleport terminals. Only the Interplanetary travel terminals and the Starship terminals.

Great ideas. The only problem I see is that if the restriction on accessing the starship terminal were removed while in combat, when entering space, some get there faster than others. So if, you continued your combat with an individual from the ground and carried it into space, one may stilb loading, allowing the other to kill him. This could create problems. It would be nice however to have a way to carry ground combat into space.

All great ideas. Anyone else?

This will be my last bump before letting it sift to the bottom. I was hoping for bit more of a response, but thats alright I guess. So if you want to add any comments, suggestions, crticism, nows the time to do it.

With the new footage of the Star Destroyer and the vette coming as some positive news, I find myself wondering whether or not I (we) are being decieved again.

I don't mean this in the sense that SOE is trying to decieve us, but, rather that we are seeing something we want to see and not what is actually there. Sure, we saw a star destroyer, but how often will we run into these in game? What does it take to get aboard one? Can freelance pilots board?

I only hope that this star destroyer will be implimented the way we want it to be. Not to be an instanced mission, where someone gets a reward by just running through the hallways blasting the same thing over and over, but actual content that is ever present, suprising, and exciting.

What are your thoughts on this? Do you feel SOE will eventually accomplish what we are asking?

I'd also like to see lots of new planets. They don't have to do the whole planet. I'd like to see them do things like Hoth, Korriban, Kamino, lots of different planets that could have a very small area accessible to players. They could then pan them out at a later time. More diversity and more places to explore. Exploring is the most fun part of the game for me.

I agree with all of this, but I think Coruscant, if done correctly, could be added as a ground pilot too. I would also like to see certain planets added to the game, where spaceships could actually fly about, land on the surface wherever they want, players could walk out of their space ship, whatever. My idea is to make these land/ground planets very uninhabited planets in the movies. For instance, Hoth could be one of these planets. The only starport would be the rebel base, and there would be no spacestation. Imperial pilots would have to fly to the Hoth space sector and actually fly manually into the atmosphere. If they want to wander Hoth on ground, they would be forced to land their ship, and walk around. To make things easier they could stor their ties in their datapad, then call them later, like vehicles. If your ship is destroyed and you are rebel, youwill be towed to the rebel ground base, and be able to perform the functions of a space station. If you are imperial, you will be towed to the coruscant sector, and have to fly back toHoth. This shows how much of an advantage the Rebellion has on Hoth, one of their few Headquarters. If the game ever moves sof ar in the timeline where the imperials control Hoth, Then the rebels and imperials will switch vantage points. TheImperials will control the base, and the planet. If the Rebels die onHoth they would betowed to Correlia, or perhaps the Rebel fleet. Ground players could look into the sky, and actually see ships fighting. One more thing, most of Hoth would be protected by several shield generators(which keep the ships from going down to a certain altitude(altitudes to be told by a number next to the radar) and attacking ground players, once they reach thelimit altitude, they must land their ship to approachground.This would allowfor Hoth to be a perfectly functioning ground planet. But for the adventurous, there will be a certain small place on Hoth unprotected by a shield generator, where pilots can fly and shoot close to ground, and shoot players. If a player is shot by a ship, the ship is unable to deathblow, but his death is counted toward the triple incap. Perhaps Hoth could even take place in the Factional Control Game, Control of the planet switching between Imperial and Rebel. What do you think.

I agree with all of this, but I think Coruscant, if done correctly, could be added as a ground pilot too. I would also like to see certain planets added to the game, where spaceships could actually fly about, land on the surface wherever they want, players could walk out of their space ship, whatever. My idea is to make these land/ground planets very uninhabited planets in the movies. For instance, Hoth could be one of these planets. The only starport would be the rebel base, and there would be no spacestation. Imperial pilots would have to fly to the Hoth space sector and actually fly manually into the atmosphere. If they want to wander Hoth on ground, they would be forced to land their ship, and walk around. To make things easier they could stor their ties in their datapad, then call them later, like vehicles. If your ship is destroyed and you are rebel, youwill be towed to the rebel ground base, and be able to perform the functions of a space station. If you are imperial, you will be towed to the coruscant sector, and have to fly back toHoth. This shows how much of an advantage the Rebellion has on Hoth, one of their few Headquarters. If the game ever moves sof ar in the timeline where the imperials control Hoth, Then the rebels and imperials will switch vantage points. TheImperials will control the base, and the planet. If the Rebels die onHoth they would betowed to Correlia, or perhaps the Rebel fleet. Ground players could look into the sky, and actually see ships fighting. One more thing, most of Hoth would be protected by several shield generators(which keep the ships from going down to a certain altitude(altitudes to be told by a number next to the radar) and attacking ground players, once they reach thelimit altitude, they must land their ship to approachground.This would allowfor Hoth to be a perfectly functioning ground planet. But for the adventurous, there will be a certain small place on Hoth unprotected by a shield generator, where pilots can fly and shoot close to ground, and shoot players. If a player is shot by a ship, the ship is unable to deathblow, but his death is counted toward the triple incap. Perhaps Hoth could even take place in the Factional Control Game, Control of the planet switching between Imperial and Rebel. What do you think.

Ryushi and Mse, I agree with you both on many of the points you brought up.

First off, the more planets you have, the better. This is where your idea, Ryushi, of having smaller sections of planet accessible to players comes into play. There need to be planets where the attention isn't fully on them. For example, Tatooine, during the time of Episode I wasn't all that well known. Obi Wan and the others knew nothing of it, only the Naboo. Obviously, it grew in importance with the finding of Anakin. Another example is Hoth, it wasn't well known, which is why the rebels chose that location. Tatooine for example in game is one of the center planets, people travel there all the time. My point is not to eliminate this role for tatooine, but, create other planets that serve as the "real outer rim". I feel you were hinting at this Mse.

All the points you brought up I had been considering for some time and was trying to find a way to impliment these into the system as best we could. Soon I hope to update this first version of "Polishing the Space Expansion" with some details that you mentioned. If you have any further ideas, please do post them so we can get them all layed out for the developers, if they choose to read them.

Keep the ideas coming...

this is basically everything i've been wanting in this game summarized in one thread

good post, hope the corr. forwards it to the devs