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Thread: My ideas to give space PVP a bit more attraction
Those shields should be targettable subcomponents so that an enemy bomber pilot could fire directly at them.
Atm most PVP battles are 5min droid waits and 10-20sec fighting fun.
Message Edited by Ewene on 02-09-2005 04:47 PM
Ewene wrote:4. I forgot and edited this one in: Give us a better audiovisual warning that a PVP encounter is about to start OR give us a command to recursively check for enemy players. I think about something like the "incoming missile" threat warning if a PVP player locked on to you and closes in.This might encourage more people to fight.
I'm 100% for this. As it stands now, the only audio warning that another player has targeted you is the "tink" noise that sounds when anything targets you.
Ewene wrote:
1. Give us a SLIGHTLY higher damage reduction in PVP, while the skill it needs to evade on the head to head encounters is good and those 1shot kills are possible with crafted equipment (so basically any new master can buy a lvl 9 gun and it boils down to skill who dies first) I think we can live with 5-15% higher damage reduction.
As far as I understood we are now at 25% reduction, so another 15% would give us 40% which might turn the 1-hit kills into 2-3hit kills.
Message Edited by Ewene on 02-09-2005 04:47 PM
How about giving a tangible reason for players to care? Maybe have the empire reward credits for killing people in space? Likewise have the Rebels recieve similar rewards.
Another idea might be to have there be PvP missions which exists in opposition to each other. For instance a rebel group gets an "escort mission" in which they escort a rebel frigate through a section of space. The frigate appears only after 5 imperials accepta destroy mission against the 5 rebels. The winner gets seas. Not credits and let me explain why it must be seas. First off people don't value 1-3k credits. If that was sufficient reward people would be doing missions. Seas go for millions on auction. Every server has Lord Nyax camped 24/7 by someone. Instead of rewarding the campers for a change lets reward players who want to participate in a very Star Warsy event such as a battle in space.
This would also destroy the sea market which is a very good thing when you consider that right now the sea market is controled by the lowes common denominator, the afk camper.
Ewene wrote:
2. Give the Shipwright the ability to craft a MP ship armor and shield that isperhaps 10 times as thick as the current mark V and weighs about 100t, thusmaking them a lot harder to kill but the shield could not be put on anything but the MP ships.
Those shields should be targettable subcomponents so that an enemy bomber pilot could fire directly at them.
Message Edited by Ewene on 02-09-2005 04:47 PM
I don't know if making things longer is the answer. I simply think no one PvP's because there is no point. Yes PvP can be fun, but when I log on I have specific goals in mind and achieving them is fun. I just see no forward progress with making things longer. Now if you could give me a reason to care, now I PvP.
Ewene wrote:
3. Get away with the delay on the overcharge droid programs, AND add higher delay to the shield refreshing programs.
Atm most PVP battles are 5min droid waits and 10-20sec fighting fun.
Message Edited by Ewene on 02-09-2005 04:47 PM
If you simulate PvP events, when a person is killed they are "out" of the event. That would be the solution I would propose. That and for gods sake when you die all timers should simultaneously expire. Its BS that it doesn't and its poor programming. I hope that changes, waiting is frustrating never fun.
Ewene wrote:
4. I forgot and edited this one in: Give us abetter audiovisual warning that a PVP encounter is about to start OR give us a command to recursively check for enemy players. I think about something like the "incoming missile" threat warning if a PVP player locked on to you and closes in.
This might encourage more people to fight.
Message Edited by Ewene on 02-09-2005 04:47 PM
Message Edited by WarlordRhawn on 02-09-2005 09:21 AM
Ewene wrote:
1. Give us a SLIGHTLY higher damage reduction in PVP, while the skill it needs to evade on the head to head encounters is good and those 1shot kills are possible with crafted equipment (so basically any new master can buy a lvl 9 gun and it boils down to skill who dies first) I think we can live with 5-15% higher damage reduction.
As far as I understood we are now at 25% reduction, so another 15% would give us 40% which might turn the 1-hit kills into 2-3hit kills.
We don't need a higher damage reduction. The problem with people getting killed in 2-3 hits is because those hits are ALL perfect, solid hits. Now I have 2 characters. On my main, my ship of choice is the Xwing. Yes i'm master but i like my ship and pvp with that with no problems at all. My other character I have made Imp and he is currently 3222. Last night i set up an interceptor with a lvl 4 engine, lvl 5 wep and shield, lvl 2 cap, lvl 3 armor, and lvl 2 booster, and lvl 5 reactor. I went overt with him and proceeded to pvp against my guild mates. 2 flew Xwings, 3 flew awings. All but one was a master. I beat the 2 xwings and 1 of the awings. The other awings were good pilots and we ended up having 2-5 minute dog fights. I ended up losing because I couldn't keep up with their speed, but none, absolutely none of them killed me in 2-3 hits. And they had good lvl 8 weps on their awings. All their shots were glancing shots that didn't do a lot of damage. It took any where from 5-7 hits to kill me. Why so many? BECAUSE I KNOW HOW TO FLY! THEY KNOW HOW TO FLY! Just because people don't know how to fly and end up dying in 2 seconds from someone who does know how to fly doesn't mean we should nerf the whole freaking system to appease these people!
Sorry if i'm getting a little upset, but my god people. Learn how to fly for gods sake. The damage is fine how it is. It will not fix the problem of the MP ships, or BWings not being able to compete. That will take something else.
Ewene wrote:
That would be nice, but at the same time i think people are being lazy in this situation. The radar is not hard to understand. Another thing is if your overt then you have to be constantly looking for that enemy player, even if you're targeting an NPC. There's a little button that can be hot keyed to your JS called "target closest enemy player".This is the single most important thing for finding enemy players in space.
The only thing I could see that would need to be changed is the ability to evade missles. As it stands now if one is launched at you, you can't see it and so can't avoid it andbam your hit.
SwordNMace wrote:
Ewene wrote:4. I forgot and edited this one in: Give us a better audiovisual warning that a PVP encounter is about to start OR give us a command to recursively check for enemy players. I think about something like the "incoming missile" threat warning if a PVP player locked on to you and closes in.This might encourage more people to fight.
I'm 100% for this. As it stands now, the only audio warning that another player has targeted you is the "tink" noise that sounds when anything targets you.
Im gonna have to disagree. Situational awareness is YOUR JOB, not sony's. If you can't remember to habitually check for hostile players, and to keep your eyes open thats your fault. Not meaning as a flame, but next thing you know we'll have requests for auto targeting.
As to making PvP in space more attractive, i dont think game mechanics isn't so much the culprit as is a tangible reason to fight each other to begin with. You don't even so much as get faction points. Nothing tangible is neither won or lost, excepting perhaps pride and ego. But to me, pride and ego isnt enough of a reason. The game needs far reaching effects as to the outcome of space battles.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 02-09-2005 01:23 PM
WarlordRhawn wrote:
Ewene wrote:
1. Give us a SLIGHTLY higher damage reduction in PVP
How about giving a tangible reason for players to care? Maybe have the empire reward credits for killing people in space? Likewise have the Rebels recieve similar rewards.
Also a good approach, I mostly added that low reduction because I guess the majority wants it, as stated I am also happy with the current level and I fear that if it is increased too much we end up with the same situation as on the ground where if you have that uber rare gun doing hillarious amounts of damage will be the insta own button, your idea might be better.
Ewene wrote:
2. Give the Shipwright the ability to craft a MP ship armor and shield that isperhaps 10 times as thick
I don't know if making things longer is the answer. I simply think no one PvP's because there is no
l agreethat the fighter vs fighter duels should mainly stay as they are now, but considering that coordination on MP ships is vastly more difficult, they should last a bit longer/take a few more hits to kill, and adding those massive shields will prevent the addition of a lot of other "top notch" equipment, so the MP ships will not turn into mega nasty gunboats that can fight on their own, you will still need an escort to prevent the others of attacking/killing said shields.
Ewene wrote:
3. Get away with the delay on the overcharge droid programs, AND add higher delay to the shield Message Edited by Ewene on 02-09-2005 04:47 PM
If you simulate PvP events, when a person is killed they are "out" of the event. That would be the
I take that as agreement from your side I guess?
Ewene wrote:
4. I forgot and edited this one in: Give us abetter audiovisual warning that a PVP encounter is about to start OR give us a command to recursively check for enemy players. I think about something like the "incoming missile" threat warning if a PVP player locked on to you and closes in.
This might encourage more people to fight.
Message Edited by Ewene on 02-09-2005 04:47 PM
exists. I have trouble telling who i targeted. I suspect its because they are using red and I am blind to it. I would
Ouch yeah suffering from red/green blindness in space is nastymaybe we should be able to select a few other colour options.
much rather have the target become highlighted. While were on the subject of targeting, I think the ground game also needs a smarter targeting system. What I would propose is this.
As for the ground game targetting prob, did you try to select yourself and then hit tab? It pretty much does the job for me.
xTekx wrote:
Ewene wrote:
1. Give us a SLIGHTLY higher damage reduction in PVP, while the skill it needs to evade on the head to
Sorry if i'm getting a little upset, but my god people. Learn how to fly for gods sake. The damage is fine how it is. It will not fix the problem of the MP ships, or BWings not being able to compete. That will take something else.
No offense taken by me
, I did a good5 hour practice session doing mainly head to heads and I am getting better at the evasion (still not perfect but I survive about 50% of the approaches now), but atm its problematic that there arevery few peeps that "know how to fly" and I fear thatthose that usually get shredded to pieces will rather quit then to try and get better themselves. And don't you think that having more targets up there will benefit all?
Ewene wrote:
4. I forgot and edited this one in: Give us abetter audiovisual warning that a PVP encounter is about to start OR give
That would be nice, but at the same time i think people are being lazy in this situation. The radar is not hard to
My poor y-key is getting hammered at least every 5-10 secs usually, except if I start to get lazy. I don't have enough easily accessiblebuttons on my stick to bind it there. Thusthe idea to make the command available in a recursive macro style or give that audiovisual "HEY YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET FRIED!!!111ONEELEVEN" message
Ducimus wrote:
SwordNMace wrote:
Ewene wrote:
4. I forgot and edited this one in: Give us a better audiovisual warning that a PVP encounter
I'm 100% for this. As it stands now, the only audio warning that another player has targeted you is the "tink" noise that sounds when anything targets you.
Im gonna have to disagree. Situational awareness is YOUR JOB, not sony's. If you can't remember to habitually check for hostile players, and to keep your eyes open thats your fault. Not meaning as a flame, but next thing you know we'll have requests for auto targeting.
Well, almost every flightsim will tell you when you have a missile or enemy fighter without proper IFF code incoming, and RL fighters also have such a warning. There simply is a bit too much stuff for the pilot to worry about to be forced to repeatedly hammer on a key
As to making PvP in space more attractive, i dont think game mechanics isn't so much the culprit as is a tangible reason to fight each other to begin with. You don't even so much as get faction points. Nothing tangible is neither won or lost, excepting perhaps pride and ego. But to me, pride and ego isnt enough of a reason. The game needs far reaching effects as to the outcome of space battles.
Fully agree on that one.
Message Edited by Ducimus on 02-09-2005 01:23 PM
Ewene wrote:
Hi all,
first let me say that I hope that at least not all my ideas are already mentioned before, I know some are but I wanted to have a complete summary.
1. Give us a SLIGHTLY higher damage reduction in PVP, while the skill it needs to evade on the head to head encounters is good and those 1shot kills are possible with crafted equipment (so basically any new master can buy a lvl 9 gun and it boils down to skill who dies first) I think we can live with 5-15% higher damage reduction.
As far as I understood we are now at 25% reduction, so another 15% would give us 40% which might turn the 1-hit kills into 2-3hit kills.
2. Give the Shipwright the ability to craft a MP ship armor and shield that isperhaps 10 times as thick as the current mark V and weighs about 100t, thusmaking them a lot harder to kill but the shield could not be put on anything but the MP ships.
Those shields should be targettable subcomponents so that an enemy bomber pilot could fire directly at them.
3. Get away with the delay on the overcharge droid programs, AND add higher delay to the shield refreshing programs.
Atm most PVP battles are 5min droid waits and 10-20sec fighting fun.
4. I forgot and edited this one in: Give us abetter audiovisual warning that a PVP encounter is about to start OR give us a command to recursively check for enemy players. I think about something like the "incoming missile" threat warning if a PVP player locked on to you and closes in.
This might encourage more people to fight.
Message Edited by Ewene on 02-09-2005 04:47 PM
Ewene wrote:
1. Give us a SLIGHTLY higher damage reduction in PVP, while the skill it needs to evade on the head to head encounters is good and those 1shot kills are possible with crafted equipment (so basically any new master can buy a lvl 9 gun and it boils down to skill who dies first) I think we can live with 5-15% higher damage reduction.
As far as I understood we are now at 25% reduction, so another 15% would give us 40% which might turn the 1-hit kills into 2-3hit kills.
I am against any type of PvP damage reduction. PvP should be exactly the same as PvE. Now, I am not stupid in that I agree, damage is to high in PvP, so I would rather have a weapon damage reduction to make PvP balanced. Once this is done, the devs should balance PvE to compensate. Any system where the rules to PvP is different then PvE will cause problems. Keep them the same and it becomes much easier to balance.
2. Give the Shipwright the ability to craft a MP ship armor and shield that isperhaps 10 times as thick as the current mark V and weighs about 100t, thusmaking them a lot harder to kill but the shield could not be put on anything but the MP ships.
Those shields should be targettable subcomponents so that an enemy bomber pilot could fire directly at them.
Agreed. Mass is key. MPShips are slow unmaneverable beasts but they also have the room for the best equipement. Smaller ships like the Awing have to settle with weak weapons and shields but benefit from being fast and maneverable. The closer the devs come to reproducing this, the better this game will be.
3. Get away with the delay on the overcharge droid programs, AND add higher delay to the shield refreshing programs.
Atm most PVP battles are 5min droid waits and 10-20sec fighting fun.
I feel the opposite. Programs that involve transfer of power should have no delay (Like in the Xwing games) but programs that involve overdriving something should take time and should not stack. If you use weapon overdrive, then you should draw more power. Unless you have an uber reactor, you don't have the extra energy for any other overdrive. Reactor overdrive should have a downer where it produces less energy.
4. I forgot and edited this one in: Give us abetter audiovisual warning that a PVP encounter is about to start OR give us a command to recursively check for enemy players. I think about something like the "incoming missile" threat warning if a PVP player locked on to you and closes in.
A warning system would be neat, but if PvP and PvE are properly balanced, then the warning system should be a general alarm for both, not just PvP.
Well, almost every flightsim will tell you when you have a missile or enemy fighter without proper IFF code incoming, and RL fighters also have such a warning. There simply is a bit too much stuff for the pilot to worry about to be forced to repeatedly hammer on a key
That's just not true. Some modern fighters have missile launch warnings and radar lock warnings. However, it won't do a damned thing about some bandit that snuck low on your six to make a shot with passive, heat-seeking missile. What's even worse is that some airborne units have the ability to literally flood the skies with their radar. That allows for radar-homing missiles to seek their targets, passively
If there actually is a key to detect enemy fighters or incoming missiles, automatically (without visual or radar scanning), it is a CHEAT. No hardcore flight sim player ever duels another player with such a crutch. Don't like pressing the key? Fine. Make a macro. But don't lie about the fact that such a function is common in other flight sims or that modern fighters have such a capability to automatically detect any enemy at any aspect at any range.
Don't believe me? Go to www.simhq.com and ask in any of the simulation forums about it.
When making a game based around SW, developers should always look at other SW games of the same gendre. In this case, Xwing. In all the Xwing games, the astromech droid or flight computer always told you when it detected a new target in the area. Newer Xwing games would show you a list of all fighters in the area and how much shields/armor they have. I don't see why having something like this would be bad. This is a game after all. If I needed to go AFK for 2 seconds or I alt-tabbed out of the game for a second, a little beep saying an enemy is withing 3km is not a bad thing at all.
Ducimus wrote:
Im gonna have to disagree. Situational awareness is YOUR JOB, not sony's. If you can't remember to habitually check for hostile players, and to keep your eyes open thats your fault. Not meaning as a flame, but next thing you know we'll have requests for auto targeting.
I have an RE'ed reward shield gen that maxes at 2550. Armor that's 1000 HP. I have looted level 10 weapons with 4400 damage. I also have missiles that do 5-11k damage with .5/.5 "vs". It's clear to see that even with 25% reduced damage, either weapon can collapse a shield and destroy the armor in a single shot.
I've PvPed, having been killed twice and having killed three times. In both kills, I had an imperial run in on boost, get JUST within target range, and loose two Mark IV missiles at me. I've rarely ever had a countermeasuer work, and ended up getting hit by both.
Result? Immediate "one shot kill". I was PvPing before getting missile launchers of my own, so I'd suspect that some poor imperial will taste the same death should I chose to do it again.
But I think that several posters have hit this issue squarely. WHY PvP in space? Aside from Deepspace, why take the 10% decay on your ship and items when you get nothing for the exhcange? There would need to be a reward or reduced/eliminated decay for PvP in space to be a valid option for most players. I have done it on occasion for the faction, but it's easier and less dangerous to get faction on the ground with the decay as it is.