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Thread: PVP Decay: What's REALLY Killing PVP in JTL...
I am scared. I am really scared.
I wouldn't do PVP with a stolen ship deed and components under the current PVP conditions, or even if someone gave them to me as a present.
I don't mind if I get 1k battle fatigue or 1k wounds, but what I REALLY mind is the decay that I'd get on my TIE Interceptor/Advanced/Oppressor that I payed (an would eventually pay when I become an ace pilot) so much money for.
I just got an Interceptor, and it had around 1900-2000 chassis hitpoints. I tried to solo a very hard mission afterwards, trusting my newly bought equipment and such, but I died and now my interceptor sits at 1700 hitpoints. It's sad, but I don't really mind, since, like anyone else, I can kill NPCs as if they are fruit flies and there needs to be some sort of a penalty for dying when playing against NPCs. It was MY stupidity and overconfidence. If one doesn't get decay penalties when playing against NPCs, that would cause players to be too superior towards NPCs. So the decay itself is an understandable thing.
In PVE, the only thing that is risked is decay and wounds, and death is not that likely to happen anyway. Most of the time players don't die when doing PVE, unless they are attacked by a swarm or enemy vessels and all of a sudden get a power spike while trying to perform a trick (or are overwhelmed by the "accurate as if they are tied to your ship by a rope" NPCs).
HOWEVER;
PVP is different. It's a zero sum game; one will HAVE to die in order for the other to win. There MUST be winners and losers. There is no obvious superiority against your opponent in PVP (unless it's a newbie vs. an ace or some big gap among skill levels like that) and the player is risking MUCH MORE when doing PVP than PVE.
Who would FREQUENTLY want to do PVP (kind of like running around overt on ground) if they have a bigger chance to die and will still suffer the same amount of decay?
Not me, no...
That's why I am really, REALLY scared to declare overt in space.
Message Edited by spincrus on 11-18-2004 11:00 AM
For example: I have my ship rather beat up from helping someone out on a Master Mission and have just enough left in her to get to the Deep Space sector where I get myself killed deliberately.
Should I suffer decay or not? If the answer is "No, you should not decay" then what is to stop cheeseballs from exploiting this to avoid decay? If the answer is "Yes" then how can you distiguish between the decayable damage and the nondecayable damage?
I find the whole "Could you kill me so I can get to the science outpost quickly" pvp/duels to be cheap and devalues the gaming experience. I don't want to see suicide zergers giving prestigue points to people so they can avoid decay. It ruins the appropriate recognition for PvP prowess and clutters the PvP enviroment with reckless stupid people.
When you are destroyed or damaged in deep space this damage would need to be distinguished from normal damage upon returning to normal space so I'll add the following.
When you leave Deep Space whether following destruction or using Hyperspace you are immediately prompted for whether you want special deep space repairs. These repairs are immediately made with reduced decay. (Because there is PvE content in Deep Space it shouldn't be decay free and being able to destiguish PvP vs PvE damage would still be problematic). Maybe Deep Space Decay would be 2.5% or 5% instead of 10%.
It's definitely more complex to "fix" this issue in space. I do believe that decay should not occur on the ship and should be much smaller (like 1-5% or so) on components when you use a repair kit.
Alternatively add a ship insurance like in the ground game.
It's well known that armor today needs to be replaced every 2-4 repairs to remain worth their weight. This is something I don't mind. Having to repair ships however could quickly become the major killer for JTL PVP.
The other option is for the game to track what damage was done during PvE, as opposed to PvP. Then calculate the damage. So for example, PvE decay is normally 10%. Well, let's say that you got half your damage from PvE, and then died while doing PvP. You would decay 5%. Simple enough?
As for people ghetto-warping back to base by having someone else kill them. . . I can't imagine this is THAT MUCH of a problem. I mean, really. Hyperspace is accessable at any time (even mid-battle). How much time would it save to find someone to attack you, kill you, and then respawn, as opposed to just, you know, going home? I think that PvP death should still cost money for repairs, just negate the decay factor involved. That will further reduce instances of ghetto-warping.
And the real question here is, quite honestly, priorities. Is it more important to stop people from occasionally figuring out a way to avoid decay, or is it more important to make PvP an enjoyable and constant part of Jump to Lightspeed?
Message Edited by Aden_Nak on 11-18-2004 03:45 PM
Aden_Nak wrote:
Concerning people who will enter PvP with already damages ships in order to avoid decay, the solution is simple. Force people to pay for full repairs before they can enter a PvP zone. Just make it a mandatory option before they are allowed to enter Deep Space (and whatever other PvP zones may become available). That way you know that whatever damage the get from PvP will actually be from PvP (at least in PvP specific zones).
The other option is for the game to track what damage was done during PvE, as opposed to PvP. Then calculate the damage. So for example, PvE decay is normally 10%. Well, let's say that you got half your damage from PvE, and then died while doing PvP. You would decay 5%. Simple enough?
As for people ghetto-warping back to base by having someone else kill them. . . I can't imagine this is THAT MUCH of a problem. I mean, really. Hyperspace is accessable at any time (even mid-battle). How much time would it save to find someone to attack you, kill you, and then respawn, as opposed to just, you know, going home? I think that PvP death should still cost money for repairs, just negate the decay factor involved. That will further reduce instances of ghetto-warping.
And the real question here is, quite honestly, priorities. Is it more important to stop people from occasionally figuring out a way to avoid decay, or is it more important to make PvP an enjoyable and constant part of Jump to Lightspeed?
Message Edited by Aden_Nak on 11-18-2004 03:45 PM
If you wanna live longer, just don't die, or buy new components 
Fidgiter wrote:
I find the whole "Could you kill me so I can get to the science outpost quickly" pvp/duels to be cheap and devalues the gaming experience.
spincrus wrote:
I am scared. I am really scared.
I wouldn't do PVP with a stolen ship deed and components under the current PVP conditions, or even if someone gave them to me as a present.
Who would FREQUENTLY want to do PVP (kind of like running around overt on ground) if they have a bigger chance to die and will still suffer the same amount of decay?
Actually I think decay will be beneficial to PVP in the long term, it removes the "I have the uberest gear and you can't touch me" element as they are too scared to risk their kit being decayed.
That means that the folks who don't currently PVP because they don't have the "uber" gear and don't want to waste their gaming time trying to get it will be able to play with their average and good gear and be able to compete.
I want to PVP, but I want a chance, I don't want to have to have the absolute best looted and crafted kit to stand a chance of competing, that is how it is on the ground and its not fun. I will PVP in space, and when my ship or components die I will replace them. I will have a chance to be competitive as i don't need 'uber' looted gear to compete.
spincrus wrote:
Who would FREQUENTLY want to do PVP (kind of like running around overt on ground) if they have a bigger chance to die and will still suffer the same amount of decay?