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Thread: PVP Decay: What's REALLY Killing PVP in JTL...
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Aden_Nak
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:37 am
#14
lisasdarren wrote:I want to PVP, but I want a chance, I don't want to have to have the absolute best looted and crafted kit to stand a chance of competing, that is how it is on the ground and its not fun. I will PVP in space, and when my ship or components die I will replace them. I will have a chance to be competitive as i don't need 'uber' looted gear to compete.
The whole point of JtL's twitchiness is that the best gear does not guarantee a win. That's what I like about it. I mean, look. If you take two Pistoleers of similar levels and have them duel, assuming that they both use the best tactics available to them, the one with the better gun and armor will win. You could very easily lose, despite being a far better player, because your opponent's Weaponsmith or Armorsmith did a better job. Or your opponent got a much better slice than you did. Plenty of factors like that.
The twitch of space allows for pilots of similar skill levels to rely LESS on gear. Now, that being said, is a ship trapsing around with Tech 5 items going to be able to slaughter a ship decked out with Tech 8 and Tech 9 items? Not as often, no. But two ships with similar Tech items, where the variance is within a few hundred points, are leaving much more to chance. And it's much more player skill dependant. So I don't think that you need "uber" gear to compete in space. Hell, I haven't gotten hardly any of my good gear RE'ed yet, and I am still outperforming many ships in my Tier by just strapping on the best of my loot from the past week.
Gaijin42
Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:01 am
#15
decay just needs to be flat out removed for pvp, and removed now. if there are exploitable problems associated with that, so be it. if shipwrights lose some business, so be it. PVP is absolutely dead now, on the ground and in space, and if you think there's another endgame in space save PVP, you are sorely mistaken.
i'm tired of flying around in a pretty star wars wax museum. this is a game, not a technology demo, not a star wars interactive ride. the beauty of a massively multiplayer game is community, and competition vs real players. the devs almost seem to strive to make one element of that dichotomy as cumbersome and obtuse as possible.
PVP needs YOUR help devs. this isn't shakespearian theater. you can't set the stage with minimal props and expect magic. make it easy for us to play in your world, and give us a goal to strive for and PVP, the GCW, and subscriptions will EXPLODE.
right now it seems that they are either content with subscriptions and intend on keeping the snails pace we've all grown to expect with fixes, or they are ineffectual developers/designers. go look at the other mmo's out on the market, SWG by far has the most potential. is it underutilized because of arrogance? what's the problem?
lisasdarren
Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:14 am
#16
Aden_Nak wrote:
The whole point of JtL's twitchiness is that the best gear does not guarantee a win. That's what I like about it.
Very true, i didn't make it clear when i was refering to ground and space in my earlier post. But the PVP crowd obviously don't get it, otherwise why are they complaining about decay. If you can just use run-of-the-mill components and still compete then decay doesn't matter, just grab a new set of run of the mill stuff whenever you need it.
The ground PVPers are not competing in space because they are wrongly worrying about decay and those who wouldn't normally PVP but might in JTL either have yet to master and access Deep Space or are still not over their worries about the ganking and 'leet doods' they have come across on the ground, when they realise that the silly children, sorry 'leet doods' who PVP on the ground won't be doing so in space as they might damage their precious ship, the average player might be more inclined to PVP.
Aden_Nak
Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:27 am
#17
lisasdarren wrote:
If you can just use run-of-the-mill components and still compete then decay doesn't matter, just grab a new set of run of the mill stuff whenever you need it.
To be honest, I think people are more concerned about decay on their CHASIS than anything else. I mean, replacing a part is fine, and if you don't want to use that part in PvP, then fine. Don't. But the high end ships, especially the multi-player ships and the Firespray. . . those cost a pretty penny. Even the Tier 4 and Master level snubfighters are in the millions, credit-wise. No one is going to want to bust out their 7.5 million credit, incredibly rare Firespray just so they can get jumped by four guys in Dunelizards.
There is a cutoff here. At what point does, "you can use any gear and still PvP" become, "you use CRAP gear or else"?
lisasdarren
Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:37 am
#18
Aden_Nak wrote:
To be honest, I think people are more concerned about decay on their CHASIS than anything else. I mean, replacing a part is fine, and if you don't want to use that part in PvP, then fine. Don't. But the high end ships, especially the multi-player ships and the Firespray. . . those cost a pretty penny. Even the Tier 4 and Master level snubfighters are in the millions, credit-wise. No one is going to want to bust out their 7.5 million credit, incredibly rare Firespray just so they can get jumped by four guys in Dunelizards.
lisasdarren wrote:
If you can just use run-of-the-mill components and still compete then decay doesn't matter, just grab a new set of run of the mill stuff whenever you need it.
I include chassis in 'stuff'
Even the master fighters won't go for more than 500k soon, once the rush is over and resource / ship prices settle down.
If you really want to pay that much for a Fire-spray then thats your choice, at that money it becomes a showpiece, if fols really want to be able to fly firesprays they should stop dropping so much cash on tehm and would be able to afford it.
BlueChris
Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:33 pm
#19
It's strange but I feel the opposite. I don't mind so much the decay on chassis. It's something I can just go out and buy again. However, having my parts decay is a big drag. I spent a looooong time picking the parts I wanted, getting the REed, etc. They're much more personal.
Starson
Mon Nov 22, 2004 6:35 pm
#20
I just don't understand this, you want to fight and die with no penelty.....if you get beat you must pay something.
blahs
Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:58 pm
#21
i did some PvP the first week i was master. but after having almost 2 ships down to 0HP left. i havent even bothered whit PvP or JTL that much. been helping my guild mates lvl a little in my nova but thats all.
There is just loads of penality for doing PvP in JTL,and that discurage me alot.
Paying sick ammounts for my chassie,just to have it torn to pices from PvP aint funn.
So imo PvP in JTL is gona fade away pretty quick when peeps see how much it cost in the long runn.
Golrok
Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:38 pm
#22
So why don't we all justpvp with cheaperlight fighters while saving our prize ships for w/e? We have room for 3ships, we might as well have 1 we pvp with and 1 we dont, besides the chasis dealers buy loot now and theresa bigthread in pilot profabout all the wealth being madein space.What I dont get is why I don't see masses of ppl fighting with default fighters.. I guess its justall about grind 4 most.
If we allpvp all the time, then after a while we're all just able toafford the budget stuff, the ones who can afford more, well they fight each other while victums of decay fight each other..
There could totallybe different leagues of craftsand levelsof fights, but no. Everyone is so set on grinding for master b4 pvping and thennot evenpvping at all oncethey get there. I just don't get it.
If I could make any guild it would be calledFight Club in Space. This mundaneAI is "killing" me already.
How is anyone ever going to get good with this pvp-less trend? There's so much untapped potential just stagnating out there.
Davosyn
Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:54 pm
#23
im sure if the devs put their heads together they would come up with a solution for jtl pvp, the problem isnt that there isnt a solution its that they simply havent provided one yet
fix the decay, cuz im sure not up to pvp otherwise, :/
/agree
fix the decay, cuz im sure not up to pvp otherwise, :/
/agree
spincrus
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:38 pm
#24
Starson wrote:
I just don't understand this, you want to fight and die with no penelty.....if you get beat you must pay something.
My point was, and many other people's points were, actually, not implying this.
What I say is, you should get penalty for getting killed in PVP battle, but not in the form of a decay. Loss of FP, loss of PVP ranks, loss of something, or even *maybe* loss of experience (like Jedi?), but there should not be decay.
The risk is just too high, and not many people want to take it.
I enjoy PVP, a LOT, but this needs to be addressed.
spincrus
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:44 pm
#25
Golrok wrote:
There could totallybe different leagues of craftsand levelsof fights, but no. Everyone is so set on grinding for master b4 pvping and thennot evenpvping at all oncethey get there. I just don't get it.
Of course! That's the trend! There are already so many aces flying around, that it's not funny anymore. Who would want to PVP against high level ships, high level components, high level droid commands and pilot skills?
It's sad, but it's the realities of the game.
I still haven't gotten rid of my TIE Fighter and TIE/In, they still reside somewhere in one of my storage houses in the forms of deeds. I might consider using them to PVP from now on, but definitely not any of my higher level ships...
Achyutathewook
Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:50 pm
#26
I am still trying to figure out the PVP in JTL. I did it once, and know my skills arent bad (Xvt and XWA Old School Vet), yet I lost in 3 shots. /shrug
He was the same level as me, yet I didnt know what he had as far as components. Either way I guess I'll wait until I make Rebel Ace.
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