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Ramona_Garcia wrote:

Skill does matter, and so does luck.

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OddjobXL wrote:

Given the discrepency in gear that's out thereincluding folks holding onto old uberitems you can't even find anymore, for example, I'm not sure that "getting the drop" on me is an issue.

Of course it's an issue. and as it was stated above, even if you do have Uber gear, if you can't use it, or if the other pilot is just outright better than you, all of that uber gear is slag. I have an uber engine, an ubber gun and I'm a pretty damn good pilot. But both my uber gear and my uber ego have been put in check more than once. I would bet the farm that if you put a good pilot in a TIE bobmer and matched him against a pilot with moderate skills in an oppressor guess whoes going to win 95% of the time..if not 99% of the time? Of course luck plays a hand but not very much.

Yes, our unit was scratch and hadn't worked before togetherand there was no tactical preparation.

Problem #1 That is the kind offlight I dream about finding. All you need to do is swoop by once to get them to panic. You don't even need to fire at them. Just do a fly by and watch themscatter like rats on a sinking ship. Fear is your best weapon in space. Fear and panic will make you freeze up and do stupid things. Keep your cool, don't panic, and don't rush. A well trained, fine tuned squadron will make quick work out of even the best solo pilots

We were flying straight at them. No surprise at all on anyone's part.

Problem #2 If your boys had been better prepped you would have been able to send a few people to swing wide so as not to all be in one big cluster.

Part of the problem is that my hands were typing a warning rather than flying my ship - but the fact that one hit means you're space dust (and this isn't the only time this has happened - it seems par for the course in recent weeks) tends to take my incentive out of showing up at all.

You brought that on yourself. Either get Team Speak or keep your hands on the controlls. You can't blame JTL or the flight system for your own bad judgement and poor piloting skills.

I still go overt to hunt Imperial NPCs and I'll engage hostiles I encounter when doing so. I don't expect to win unless I completely surprise my opponent usually. Uberengines, ubershields, uberweapons. That's great. But I'll leave most of the heavy fighting to my friends who've got the same stuff. If that's what the goal is here, that's fine. I'm just suggesting a way to increase participation assuming that's a goal and a reason for discussing issues like damage. I suspect it's the reason you see serious issues with DOT and legendary weapons in ground PvP - folks don't want to have to grind endlessly to be contenders. Who can blame them? But it does lower the pool of participants.

Again, gear is only one part of it and in most cases doesn't really matter (see above post about engines). What it sounds like to me is that you just need more practice. get your friends together and do some mock dogfights. you don't even need to /duel if you don't want to. just play tag. see who can outmanuver who and find out how and why. Then work on manuvers of your own. You also need to learn the limitations of not just your ship but other ships. For example...which ships do you want to try and slow down? My oppressor is more deadly at slower speeds, while my advanced moves like a bus at slower speeds. You need to know these things. If you WANT to be a good pilot and if you are sick of geting shot down, down cry about the system, make toons on other servers and Ace other pilot factions. Learn about each and every ship. Then keep your eyes open and your hands on the controlls and start killing things.

Or, to put it another way, if the TIE pilots had a choice about whether to go up against The Millenium Falcon knowing their odds - you think they would?

If you're talking about in the movies then yes they would. Each and every TIE pilot is trained to be fearless and believe it or not each TIE pilot is highly highly trained and skilled. TIE pilots, and all Imperials for that matter, know that they can be replaced and have no problems getting killed. Each TIE pilot knows that the ship they fly has no armor, no shields, no life support, no hyper drive. It's pretty much just 2 engines and 2 blasters. They go into batle knowing that. Which means they are either really really good pilots or totally insane, or a little of both.

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well said to some of the pilots that posted above. I like the swimming pool analogy. I've said it before and I'll say it again....practice, awareness, skill, will win the day. And as we all know, there's always a bigger fish. you might be Mr. Aces high right now, but there is a flight sim god who just picked up JTL a week ago and he'll be running you down in a week or two. That means no matter how good we are we all need to keep training and keep fighting to be the best....thus..for the good pilots...that is reason enough to go into space day after day. Sure the FP and the money is nice, but for some, being the best pilot or at least a damn good pilot, is what really counts.

Message Edited by Thradd on 03-15-2005 05:47 AM

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Thradd wrote:

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OddjobXL wrote:

Given the discrepency in gear that's out thereincluding folks holding onto old uberitems you can't even find anymore, for example, I'm not sure that "getting the drop" on me is an issue.

Of course it's an issue. and as it was stated above, even if you do have Uber gear, if you can't use it, or if the other pilot is just outright better than you, all of that uber gear is slag. I have an uber engine, an ubber gun and I'm a pretty damn good pilot. But both my uber gear and my uber ego have been put in check more than once. I would bet the farm that if you put a good pilot in a TIE bobmer and matched him against a pilot with moderate skills in an oppressor guess whoes going to win 95% of the time..if not 99% of the time? Of course luck plays a hand but not very much.

Luck and gear are everything. Catching someone unawares, IE already engaged,and being able to kill him before he can react is how the game is won. If you get into a turning fight you've lost unless - you already have the uber gear. I'd ask RL fighter pilots. Now they've got much better doodads to manage situational awareness than we do but ultimately it's all about spotting and killing your target before he can respond. That means better sensors and better weapons mainly. The F16 can dogfight the hell out of the F15. But the F15 is the Air Superiority Fighter. Why? Because it has da ubergear. Better sensors and an array of long range and lethal missiles. But if the F16 can close, I suspect, it would be a very surprising outcome if the F15 won an an engagement of cannons and angles, because The Falcon's got the uberengine and profile. We're in a situation where a pilot can just pick and chose the best of both worlds depending on how much time he's got to invest in gameplay.

Sure, pilot skill is very important but the best pilot in the world in aSopwith Camelis going to have problems dealing with a Bf-109. Imagine if they could just go out and catass for parts during a war and come up with amazingly better ships than what's offered off the line. Yup. That's all they'd be doing 24/7. Unfortunately for most of us salvage-minded aces, the phone rings, wakes us up, and has us trying to explain to the boss there's a war on. Rarely goes over well.

Yes, our unit was scratch and hadn't worked before togetherand there was no tactical preparation.

Problem #1 That is the kind offlight I dream about finding. All you need to do is swoop by once to get them to panic. You don't even need to fire at them. Just do a fly by and watch themscatter like rats on a sinking ship. Fear is your best weapon in space. Fear and panic will make you freeze up and do stupid things. Keep your cool, don't panic, and don't rush. A well trained, fine tuned squadron will make quick work out of even the best solo pilots

There, uh, wasn't any panic that I was aware of. We were maneuvering to intercept. I spotted them and was expressing a warning. And pow. Then there was what'd I'd probably describe as bewildered annoyance. Not really so much with the panic.

We were flying straight at them. No surprise at all on anyone's part.

Problem #2 If your boys had been better prepped you would have been able to send a few people to swing wide so as not to all be in one big cluster.

Wasn't like I even knew this was going on till I got a /tell. My instinct was to blow the thing off but I'm starting to feel for Ramona, Naithan and Gwreng. They work really hard on these events so I figured I'd best showup and put a game face on. My plans for that night involved a bunch of necessary grinding groundside until I got the page. Maybe if I run across a good roleplaying squadron out there which actually does drill I'd get involved. But I hear alot more of folks talking about drilling than actually doing it.

Part of the problem is that my hands were typing a warning rather than flying my ship - but the fact that one hit means you're space dust (and this isn't the only time this has happened - it seems par for the course in recent weeks) tends to take my incentive out of showing up at all.

You brought that on yourself. Either get Team Speak or keep your hands on the controlls. You can't blame JTL or the flight system for your own bad judgement and poor piloting skills.

I'm a fine pilot given a situation in which I can react. I don't like Team Speak because, well, who roleplays on Team Speak? But this one-shot-kill thing is a recurring event out there, not only for me but many folks, in every possible situation. And theengaging social skills displayed in that lastcomment are an additional disincentive to get involved in PvP of any sort, including space. This is a pretty well documented feature of that style of gameplay but one, thankfully, I tend to run across less frequently with JtL folks than groundsiders.

I still go overt to hunt Imperial NPCs and I'll engage hostiles I encounter when doing so. I don't expect to win unless I completely surprise my opponent usually. Uberengines, ubershields, uberweapons. That's great. But I'll leave most of the heavy fighting to my friends who've got the same stuff. If that's what the goal is here, that's fine. I'm just suggesting a way to increase participation assuming that's a goal and a reason for discussing issues like damage. I suspect it's the reason you see serious issues with DOT and legendary weapons in ground PvP - folks don't want to have to grind endlessly to be contenders. Who can blame them? But it does lower the pool of participants.

Again, gear is only one part of it and in most cases doesn't really matter (see above post about engines). What it sounds like to me is that you just need more practice. get your friends together and do some mock dogfights. you don't even need to /duel if you don't want to. just play tag. see who can outmanuver who and find out how and why. Then work on manuvers of your own. You also need to learn the limitations of not just your ship but other ships. For example...which ships do you want to try and slow down? My oppressor is more deadly at slower speeds, while my advanced moves like a bus at slower speeds. You need to know these things. If you WANT to be a good pilot and if you are sick of geting shot down, down cry about the system, make toons on other servers and Ace other pilot factions. Learn about each and every ship. Then keep your eyes open and your hands on the controlls and start killing things.

Hmm, cry about the system. I must have missed that part of my response to this thread. Personally, I'd like to be more involved because back when PvP in JtL was good, it was very good. Met some great folks and had a ball. However, if it gets as uncompetative as ground combat is - and it does seem to be heading that way if it's not there already - I've really got to spend my time in more productive ways. Though I will continue to support my faction in other ways and remain in touch with my friends. It's probably true that more practice would help and I probably could find a better joystick (though it really pains me to find my Cougar HOTAS is more than a little clunky and imprecise - after spending that much money it's hard to want to buy another stick and the control schema is wonderful for handling commands). Still, one shot kills. The experience of ground PvP going to he with the better spoils. Is it worth that work if you'll never have a competative ship? I don't know. And I don't know that I want to work that hard when there's so much else to do in this game and in my real life. Does that disqualify me from PvP? If so, it probably disqualifies alot of other folks.

Or, to put it another way, if the TIE pilots had a choice about whether to go up against The Millenium Falcon knowing their odds - you think they would?

If you're talking about in the movies then yes they would. Each and every TIE pilot is trained to be fearless and believe it or not each TIE pilot is highly highly trained and skilled. TIE pilots, and all Imperials for that matter, know that they can be replaced and have no problems getting killed. Each TIE pilot knows that the ship they fly has no armor, no shields, no life support, no hyper drive. It's pretty much just 2 engines and 2 blasters. They go into batle knowing that. Which means they are either really really good pilots or totally insane, or a little of both.

See, that's the good thing about being a roleplayer. You know how to seperate IC from OOC. IC, sure TIE pilots are all that and a bag of chips. But players who are OOCly spending money on playing this game and have limited time and a ship prone to degrading each time it's blown up? That's what I mean by "if the TIE pilots had a choice" because they might not have in the Star Wars universe but they surely do in SWG.

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Ramona_Garcia wrote:

I fly a TIE Interceptor with a crafted shield generator and crafted armor. I very rarely get one-shotted - usually I manage to evade and cap to shield after the first hit.

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My alt flys an interceptor with crafted shields, no armor, a lvl 2 cap 40 recharge cap, a lvl 6 wep that hits for 2700 max, and a lvl 6 engine that's 70pyr. It still takes 2-3 hits to kill me. I love that thing woot! Dances how I want it to dance. I'm going to get my toon lvl'd there one of these days on Starsider so I can check out these awesome fights you guys are having.