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Thread: The Petition For an Alternative to Forced PvP for Mastery
fatgato
Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:36 pm
#66
TheRealXur wrote:
Kelko wrote:
You can disagree all you want and twist whatever logic you need to meet your views, the plain and simple fact is that we have a choice and that fact alone negates any argument that this is forced. Forced by definitionmeans against ones will or to be forced and left with no choice. That is clearly not the case here. As I stated earlier, I don't disagree that it's a crappy setup to master pilot, but by no means is it forced PvP.
Would the word "required" suit you better?
Umm ok Either you are forced to do it or you cannot reach master kinda simple there. So either you have sit back and not fly the MP ships or they higher end ships you are SOL if you dont want to pvp.
Trashawn
Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:06 pm
#67
Eldarin wrote:
Trashawn wrote:
There are noTEFs in space, the only way for players to PVP in space is tobe overt or /duel. if you are covert you can do your missions without having to deal overt players shooting you down even if your shooting down your opposing NPC faction. NO PVP is forced on you.
Message Edited by Trashawn on 10-22-2004 02:43 AM
The mission to get your master box takes place in an open pvp zone. So, therefore...*drum roll* you are open to attack by other players. If you want that master box, pvp is forced on you. Unless you think that you can just use a macro that repeats, "pls don't attack me, I'm just a ship on a dimplomatic mission," to avoid those players who enjoy ruining your ship and your mission at the same time.
Thanks for the update big ben. I was informed of my mis-understanding20 hours ago maby you should look to the end of the post before making a response.
Kelko
Sat Oct 23, 2004 12:44 am
#68
Eldarin wrote:
Kelko wrote:
I understand the fustrations of those in this situation, however my choice is not to master and be put in that situation. It's not a debate as to whether or not the system sucks (which clearly it does), It is a debate as to whether or not it is "forced" PvP and the fact that we all have a choice to pursue master or not negates any argument that this is forced PvP. And as for the analogy of the combat profession there is a distinct difference in that and the pilot; pilot doesn't actually cost any skill points to advanced where as all other professions do.
DaMidge wrote:
Just for clarification for a few people
There are only a few people that reached 4444 pilot and got to master missions in beta. There was a consensus formed among those that made it (a vast majority) that this is a bad idea.
If you want to master (and i know some of you posting that this is ok think you will) you will have to kill 30 rebel high level ships or 30 high level ties to pass misson 1. If you die or leave for repairs you WILL fail and have tro restart at 0. To kill 30 ships takes at least 3 hours if you are disconected or if the server crashes you WILL restart at 0.
Now on to the PvP part. Targeting is still a work in progress as is situational awareness it will take 1 hit from an opposing player to cripple you enough to restart your mission.
The reason so many of us are wanting a change is that you are doing a PvE mission in a PvP environment were a fraction of a second error over a 3 hour tour kills all work you do.
Now let me answer the solutions offered:
group up: Wont matter u get hit you are done you cant repair in kessel AT ALL.
Be aware: You cant at least not yet you can watch the radar but it doesnt stop that 1 hit when you dont see it coming.
Ask your self this do you know any griefers on your respective servers? Well you can garuntee they will be sitting in kessel waiting to shoot you not because it gets them anything but because it prevents you from getting anywhere. So you kill them, they dont care they will repair and return in minutes to do it again. What if there is a group of them.
Would you enjoy killing 30 enhanced klikniks to master any combat profession if the Geo caves werew a PvP arena??
Sadly this will take you seeing it for yourself as we have. Wait till you kill 29 ships have one left and a missle hits you (because after 3 hours you have no counter measures left and no way to reload) I garuntee after the first time you will be screaming on the forums for something to change. I will watch the boards in about 3 weeks to see how many of you have truely seen it for yourselves and had a change of heart.
Oh and lastly I guess that lvl 8 9 10 equipment and multiplayer ships arent whats being paid for by the vast majority? Last time i checked PvP was in the minority not PvE.
I couldn't disagree more with that statement. How many of us who ever buy an MMORPG or it's expansion are actually looking forward to putting down money on top of a montly fee only to make a choice as to if we will master a profession? I don't follow your logic. No profession should require pvp nor missions in a pvp environment to master- it's really as simple as that. Now, if you have a profession that would be considered pvp from the start (novice pk'er for instance)...
Your statement that we are not "forced" to master pilot is outright lame (sorry if that sounds like I'm flaming, but I can't think of any other word for it.) We are not "forced" to pay the montly fee for the game either. We're not "forced" to heal our battle fatigue, nor are we "forced" to make credits to run harvesters. I could clearly go on here. And, for good measure, we are not "forced" to master any profession...yeah that sounds like a fun game. NOT
You can disagree all you want and twist whatever logic you need to meet your views, the plain and simple fact is that we have a choice and that fact alone negates any argument that this is forced. Forced by definitionmeans against ones will or to be forced and left with no choice. That is clearly not the case here. As I stated earlier, I don't disagree that it's a crappy setup to master pilot, but by no means is it forced PvP.
Diorchas
Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:53 am
#69
Bottom line = access to in-game content should NEVER be gated by playstyle preference.
For all the griefer morons out there who can't comprehend what I just said, that means that attaining mastery in a profession should never enforce a playstyle choice on a player.
Devs, if you want to make a path to Mastery where PvP is enforced, great. But give players who hate PvP another path to Mastery, then. All you've done with the current system is shut out (and sh*t on) everyone who doesn't enjoy PvP and being griefed.
/sign
dashbarron
Sat Oct 23, 2004 8:59 am
#70
in the initial post, you talk about 'elite' players...I was wondering if ship components, because I heard they get damaged if they get broken/disabled for good or you can simply repair them. Because if they are 'breakable for good' then that should help because it will be that much less shields or whatever to help them so you can really not have a 'godly' ship forever....however player skill is another matter....
Valancey
Sat Oct 23, 2004 9:58 am
#71
Dude, NEUTRALS have to go into the PvP area to to advance and they can get attacked, so what you have just said is null and void.
WolfofWar wrote:
Rebel and Imperial factions are PVP factions. Non-PVP faction is the Neutral faction. Nobody is forced to PVP, you always have a choice. Your rebel, dont wanna fight other people? go Neutral
SomGorta
Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:44 am
#73
/sign
I am all for making a master lvl mission difficult in the extreme, but forcing pilots to also contend with griefers at the same time will make the master mission nearly impossible. As soon as the game launches, the kessel sector is going to be filled with griefer groups jumping on anything that gates in.
I enjoy pvp, but no mission critical to career advancement to master should put you in the situation.
As for the argument ofnot attaining master, that is a load of bu** **it. What would be the purpose of paying for a game if you can't finish it or play it tothe full potential.
TheRealXur
Sat Oct 23, 2004 11:39 am
#74
How about just letting us train if we do the 7.5 million XP the old fasion way? That would even work for me.. heh.
Kelko
Sun Oct 24, 2004 12:08 am
#75
TheRealXur wrote:
Kelko wrote:
You can disagree all you want and twist whatever logic you need to meet your views, the plain and simple fact is that we have a choice and that fact alone negates any argument that this is forced. Forced by definitionmeans against ones will or to be forced and left with no choice. That is clearly not the case here. As I stated earlier, I don't disagree that it's a crappy setup to master pilot, but by no means is it forced PvP.
Would the word "required" suit you better?
Actually yes, that is a more appropriate definition. And I would even sign this petition if the title reflected that instead of forced. Thank you for actually offering a logical, intelligent reply, unlike the flamer above.
/salute
mkummer
Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:07 am
#77
/sign the petition
I play the game for fun, not to be victim of a grief fest. I dont care about jedi this was known as pvp profession from the beginning. If I reach pilot 4444 and I see that I cant get master because of this and the devs are not doing anything about it, then I will just quit the game.
Massadonious
Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:28 am
#78
I will hold off until this goes live until I make a decision to sign.
How long will it take for someone to get 4/4/4/4 Pilot anyway? I was in Beta, and onlyplayed for about a week, but I still have the inkling that Pilot is something that can't be powergammed. WIth that being said,it would take a long, LONG time before you even have to worry about even sticking your X-Wing's nose into Kessel. Enjoy the PvE up until that point, and give the master missions a try. Sure, there will be grifers. There are griefers everywhere. Think of it as a challenge. It will make that hard earned Master title.....well....hard earned. As it stands now, most ground combat professions can be grounded out in a week. I wear my TKM tag with pride, but I wouldn't of minded one bit if it was set up to take me a month or maybe more, because it was something that I was going to accomplish, no matter what.
Same goes for me and Pilot. There may be bumps along the road. There may be L337 d00ds that just want to camp Kessel to cause havoc....but you know what....to hell with them. I'm going to get Master Pilot regardless.
Message Edited by Massadonious on 10-24-2004 01:34 AM