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Thread: AI Changes
Gyopi wrote:
I didn't see that much trouble with the AI last night. The NPC ships dive bombed me a lot, but fast ships always seem to do that to me. The speed of the NPC ships was amazing though! I decided I would try out my nice new capacitor and engine so I went into Endor space to fight tier 4 ships. Usually these are challenging, but not really that dangerous. I put everything into my kimogilla just in case so I could have some heavy armor and shields. My engine has a speed of 92, but of course it is slower in the kimogilla. I think it goes to somewhere around 860 if I remember correctly. What I found was that there was no possible way to keep up with the tier 4 ships even with boosters! It was like I was standing still! I found that the best way to defeat the ships (since I was heavily armored) was to cut my engines to the point where I could turn well and just wait for them to dive bomb me. That gave me a few seconds to shoot at the ship. It was long a and slow, but it worked. I then picked up an escort duty mission, but didn't get very far since using the method I was using was too slow to keep the escort from getting out of range. Of course, this is a tier 4 mission so I wouldn't really expect to pass any of them without a group anyway.
I need to try to use a smaller ship to see what happens if I can find the time!
Yes, it depends on what you're in as well. A friend of mine has an Awing that goes 1500 with boost, and his optimum turning speed is 1002. He can keep up with the AI quite well.
So, that means that each pilot will now have to develop unique tactics. I'm wondering why that is a bad thing? People not wanting to think and strategize?
swgdevmbogue wrote:
We are aware of all the concerns and opinions about the AI.
Let me just say "Thank you". It is nice to hear that the Devs are actually keeping an eye on these forums. Sometimes I feel like my pleas fall on deaf ears. I think many of us understand that you guys and gals have your hands full and just knowing that you're "aware" is enough to calm many of us. If you say you're workig on it, I believe you. I do hope you'll address this sooner than later, but your response has gone a long way to taking care of my conerns. I look forward to 11.3 
BTW Good comments about not whining/bitching vs actually trying out TC. OTOH, I feel like this thread has been mostly constructive criticism whit only light flaming. You should read some of the OTHER threads! LOL
Message Edited by IonControl on 11-17-2004 11:48 AM
truewildman wrote:
It is in the Publish notes.
Where? Usually im pretty good at keeping track of these things, but maybe i missed it. Thanks.
KStarfire
. I do understand peoples complaints about jousting, I've run into this problem many times against high speed A-wings - the solution isn't an AI fix, its a player fix: turn sooner, use manuvers to try to them in front of you BEFORE they start turning back at you. If you wait to turn until they are passing you, you just keep propetuating the jousting. My rule of thumb, if I don't see the broad side of my target when he flies by, then I screwed up the timing and have to try again or grab another target that is easier to get at the moment.
swgdevmbogue wrote:
We are aware of all the concerns and opinions about the AI. We are constantly adjusting the AI to make it challenging and fun. If you have concerns about the current state of the space AI, please continue to voice your opinion. Just saying it sucks and you are going to quit your account does not get anything accomplished. If you would like to help test our AI changes, please go to Test Center and play a little (there are ship AI changes on Test Center). After playing on Test Center please, come back by, say you played there, and voice your thoughts on what you liked, did not like, and any opinions on how it should be. This will help us the most in making the AI fun for everyone.
I know some of you will complain that you have to start from scratch on Test Center. Honestly, it does not take very long to get through the first few tiers of JTL. Thanks for playing.
Ok I'll voice mine
The current AI in JTL has made huge changes to the way you dogfight. Versus 1-2 ships you are essentially invincible since they only ever get 1-2 hits in on you before they fly off again, due to their crazy speed you also can only get a few shots in, even with runing before they run at you so you have a while tailing them they will enevitably get away, turn, rinse, repeat. Against more than 3 ship, you are dead, even in a group your dead, ships will not disengage from thier target to hit the player shooting them, they just keep going for the one person, each ship can take up to 10 mins to kill depending on your equipment (I was using 800-1100 blasters versus tier 3 ships) and the element of dogfighting is gone, to be replaced by jousting, which is dull, boring and extremly time consuming. I am currently 1211 and I'm still in my Y-wing, although with really good equipment, and I was getting outpaced by tier 1 ships as well. I just don't see why the AI was changed, it was fun before, and gave a good dogfighting feel to it
Word
Vicotnik wrote:
truewildman wrote:
Yes, it depends on what you're in as well. A friend of mine has an Awing that goes 1500 with boost, and his optimum turning speed is 1002. He can keep up with the AI quite well.
So, that means that each pilot will now have to develop unique tactics. I'm wondering why that is a bad thing? People not wanting to think and strategize?
There's just not much strategy to it. I'm in a ship that can pretty much keep up with tier 4 and 5 ships without much trouble and it's just plain boring. All I do is to follow them, shooting at their very exposed rear end while they fly straight ahead. There's not much room for strategy at all...
The NPC ships need a speed nerf, they should really never be this much faster than your average player ship. These normal tier 1-5 ships are the "grunts", they shouldn't have ships that can outperform PC ships this badly. In fact, I would suggest that they should almost never outperform PC ships in this way, unless they are in a hyperfast TIE interceptor and the PC is in a B-wing.
The current speed and maneuvering would work on special, boss type NPC ships and special, elite NPC squadrons. Just not you average Joe-TIE pilot.
Col. Cristos Diaz Message Edited by Trystim on 11-17-2004 09:50 AM
I found that when I upgraded to an A-Wing, accuracy dropped noticeably. THe only time they're 100% is when I'm not paying attention or when I'm tailing them. When I'm moving, accuracy drops to about 60%. Maneuverablity is the key. OTOH, I still avoid them when possible LOL
KStarfire wrote:
The othter problem i have is with TIE Aggressors, the rear turrets have a 100% accuracy on NPC ships (same problem the YTs had in beta).
swgdevmbogue wrote:We are aware of all the concerns and opinions about the AI. We are constantly adjusting the AI to make it challenging and fun. If you have concerns about the current state of the space AI, please continue to voice your opinion. Just saying it sucks and you are going to quit your account does not get anything accomplished. If you would like to help test our AI changes, please go to Test Center and play a little (there are ship AI changes on Test Center). After playing on Test Center please, come back by, say you played there, and voice your thoughts on what you liked, did not like, and any opinions on how it should be. This will help us the most in making the AI fun for everyone.I know some of you will complain that you have to start from scratch on Test Center. Honestly, it does not take very long to get through the first few tiers of JTL. Thanks for playing.
Here comes my first forum ban...
But isn't "testing" what several hundred of us did in BETA? We were largely ignored then, why would test center be any different?
I can keep up as well, but hitting them becomes quite difficult. I think there's a difference between adapting to a harder AI and an unreasonable one. I think the speed on this AI is harder. The movements are unreasonable. VERY jerky. VERY fast. Kind of like the computer conveniently forgets some of the rules of the in-game physics (control response time, inertia, momentum, roll/yaw/pitch rates, etc). TIEs will decelerate and then accelerate SIGNIFICANTLY in a mere second. They make micro turns that throw your shot wide, but not *fluid* micro turns. The AI reacts faster than my human reactions. Human reflexes are usually about .15 seconds. This AI can make direciton changes at least every tenth of a second if not faster (it seems). If I can't react to it, it's not a matter of skill but of biology vs technology. I adapt the best I can and survive quite well. but my kill rate has plummeted and it's become rather boring. heck, I can kill players faster than I can kill this AI now
truewildman wrote:
Yes, it depends on what you're in as well. A friend of mine has an Awing that goes 1500 with boost, and his optimum turning speed is 1002. He can keep up with the AI quite well.
So, that means that each pilot will now have to develop unique tactics. I'm wondering why that is a bad thing? People not wanting to think and strategize?
Kind of makes me realize that whichever side in RL integrates computers into their fighting machines first will win. hope it's us