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is it hte crafter selling items at high prices... or the looters selling looted components at high prices that drives the value up?

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XStarbracer wrote:

OK lets say for a moment most merchants pricing isnt all greed, its because the costs of getting the material is so high and your putting that all on the consumer to pay for, why screw over the player base by calling for nerfs on loot weapons (moreover anyone who calls for nerfs on things looks bad in most peoples books) Instead do something constructive like calling for improvements to your professions? Petition to have the materials needed reduced, petition for them to make experimention for you increase dps and lower SACs or what not, heck i dont know peition for them to simply add mod slots to weapons and armor like in tailoring where people can take there weapon to you and get it inproved.

Calling for nerfs is never the answer, you crafters come here and whine about loot and talk about getting it nerfed makes you all look like the Greedy merchant stereo type angry that players can get good eqiupment without having to goto you guys and spend millions, so your really trying to get things nerfed so people will be FORCED to spend money at your shops again. Which would also have a side effect about making the brand new content worthless because the rewards suck.

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for the record, i am asking for crafted items to be brought in line with rewards. i said if the only way i can get it for my community is to get the rewards nerfed, then that is what i will have to go for. i believe in starting low and tweaking up, not starting high tweaking down. when you tweak up, it's considered a fix. when you tweak down, it's considered a nerf...

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GadonThek wrote:


So you're saying that looted weapons do less damage but provide a good alernative for people who dont want to pay for low SAC weapons, but crafted weapons are the better option for raw damage? To me, that sounds balanced: each has a use.

Look, Im sorry I took such a confrontational tone in my first posts, but Im just really worried the devs will listen to you. Combat characters have been waiting since launch for decent rewards for quests, so will you at least try really feckin hard to have crafted weapons "balanced" before you start with the nerfcalls? Or will you take on board my Reverse Engineering idea?

As for Mr "OMG CRAFTERS ARE TEH SUQ AND U RUAN DA GAME!!!121", just go away, you;re making the rest of us look bad Sometimes crafters piss me off, but I would never advocate totally removing them from the game.

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-Dax wrote:
Its funny to see everyone bashing crafters, theyre what makes this game work. Without crafters we would have NOTHING. Without their dedication what we would have would be FAR inferior to what we have now. As someone else said, it isnt hard to see that most of you have never clicked on a crafting tool in their toons life, or if they have they never tried to make quality goods. Mor-Dan is pretty much right on all his points, all you naysayers (especially the one that keeps saying you have no facts) just dont know what your talking about. Why dont YOU do some research and youll see exactally what hes talking about, and dont go comparing pre-cu stuff either. So what if you have a weapon better than any loot/quest item, so what if you seen 50 of them on a vendor. Mor-Dan's point is if you went and gathered all the resources, enhancers, etc RIGHT NOW you would not come even close to the stats listed (unless you get some uber enhancers). Im not a weaponsmith but i know a bit about hammers and to come even close to most of the melee quest weapons would take some ungodly bones. I imagine the other weapons are about the same. Also people dont realize just how uber <90 sac is, as mor-dan said, to get even close to that with post-cu stuff would take a drastic reduction in dps.

This game is already becoming wow-lite, take away our crafters and make everything loot based would just kill one of the last remaining unique features of swg. Personally i would much rather just write an email to get a weapon than have to kill/quest for hours. Or if i do kill for hours i know the enhancer im getting will make me a better than average weapon and will save me alot of money. Or i also have the option to just shell out alot of cash for it. If you killed crafters there would only be 1 option, kill/quest. I just dont see how people would prefer that.

**EDIT**
I never have been nor ever will be a crafter, tried it and hated it, but im not so dumb i dont see the effect they have on the game, and i know what it would be like without them. And as much as you dont want to admit it, it IS a positive effect, they do more for this game than any of us combatants. They are what keeps us going.

Message Edited by -Dax on 05-20-200502:02 PM

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OK lets say for a moment most merchants pricing isnt all greed, its because the costs of getting the material is so high and your putting that all on the consumer to pay for, why screw over the player base by calling for nerfs on loot weapons (moreover anyone who calls for nerfs on things looks bad in most peoples books) Instead do something constructive like calling for improvements to your professions? Petition to have the materials needed reduced, petition for them to make experimention for you increase dps and lower SACs or what not, heck i dont know peition for them to simply add mod slots to weapons and armor like in tailoring where people can take there weapon to you and get it inproved.

Calling for nerfs is never the answer, you crafters come here and whine about loot and talk about getting it nerfed makes you all look like the Greedy merchant stereo type angry that players can get good eqiupment without having to goto you guys and spend millions, so your really trying to get things nerfed so people will be FORCED to spend money at your shops again. Which would also have a side effect about making the brand new content worthless because the rewards suck.

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AriesMercwar wrote:

For XstarBracer.

My guild armoursmith gave em the following information, and I helped provide bio link info to him for faction armour so here is your justification.

Faction armour costs 25k Faction Per 10 Use Faction Armour Schematic. 1k of Faction on Bria sells for 1 million credits. Most crafters are not combat toons therefore they BUY their faction points from a smuggler. So a Armoursmith spends 25 million credits to AQUIRE the Faction Armour Schematic, this does not include cost of resources etc to craft that armour. Crafter sells the armour for 3 mill to recoup his costs so he can make more faction armour. Perfectly Fair in my opinion. Don't forget it also costs YOU 7.2k faction to bio-link this faction armour to yourself. 3 mill for a set of faction armour is fully justified.

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If you pay 1000cpp for faction you need to find a new smuggler. Hell if thats the going rate im fixing to go make a smuggler on bria >.>

yeah, that's an example of greed if i ever saw one... 1,000cpu for anything, especially in the new system, is a bit more than over the top (even though i have sold some resources for that before, hehe... long resource drought).

My god - on farstar FP sells for around 120 per FP, which considering it cost the smuggler 80 per FP, (90 if you take inot account FP lost in transfer even at Colonel level), then 25k FP costs 3mill. If you are paying 1k per FP remind me not to move to your server.

I'm intrested in knowing why you think Master Defender is so out of balance. Master Defender is compareable to TKM so I don't understand why Defender is considered uber.

Now if you want to say combining Defender with 4xxx Healer is not balanced, yep I agree.

It's funny to me to see crafters claim they don't have all that many credits, if you're a dedicated crafter and have been doing it for a while and aren't very wealthy then honestly you are doing something wrong. It's sad that the crafters seem to want everything. they complain that in the post CU world they can no longer go solo all the places with good loot even though they only have some points invested in combat. I can never underatnd that argument, because to me what is the point in having a double combat mastery if everything can be soloed by a person who only dabbles in combat.
Having nothing worthwhile to loot makes the game basically pointless if you don't want to PvP. Why go out to loot hings if you can buy better stuff from vendors? Looted schems are a reasonable compromise, but not for every single item. you need crafters for enough already. Should the only thing worth looting be knick knacks and decorations, oh wait those should probably be schems too so crafters can get a piece.
I really don't get it, if a few looted items are going to wreck your business then you've got more problems than nerfing the new items. I understand that a corro needs to support his people and it's very clear that you certainly do, but the game at large needs better perspective. I guess since the craftes got such a shaft in the CU they feel the need to return the favor.
Again, I support crafters getting some love after the shafting they got but, please lets not nerf loot again so that its pointless to get anything but credits to buy crafted items. Been there, done that didn't enjoy. There's plenty of business to go around without trying to remove any incentive from looting or questing.

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Notch13 wrote:
It's funny to me to see crafters claim they don't have all that many credits, if you're a dedicated crafter and have been doing it for a while and aren't very wealthy then honestly you are doing something wrong.

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I've got a dedicated crafter alt. I spend more time on him these days than I do on my primary so I guess I should start calling him my primary. I have had this character for a year. The most I've ever had at one time was 5 mil, and that was because I was part of a cooperative with an AS.

Right now I hover around the 3 million mark. I am now reduced to buying all my resources because it is near impossible for me to do harvester runs. I am STILL trying to get SEAs to enhance my crafting, and I'mdoing the long grind through the FS crafting boxes. I believe in only using the best resources (meaning if I can't get max points out of it, I won't make it). All the factors are reasons that I am, at this time, not working on a profit. My prices haven't changed and they still won't until I have a need to change them.

There are many factors that determine the health of any servers economy. The "perception" that all crafters are rich or that all crafters are greedy is one of those factors.

In over a year of crafting I have never been rich by SWG standards. In fact many, if not most, combatant/adventuring players exceed me in "wealth". What it really goes back to is things like solo groups and other changes to the game that have disturbed these players. I really think the new quest rewards were/are an attempt to fan those still burning flames, but it has just ignited another fire. Along with these, add the fact that many great pre CU weapons were nuked (not just nerfed) into crappiness (those poor pistoleers who shelled out for DE 10s that got slammed), and you're gonna have animosity towards crafters and vice versa.

I support the WS correspondent in getting crafted weapons brought more in line with quest granted ones. I support creating some way for the same weapons that can be looted to have looted schematics (on this point think of it this way... faction armor would not cost as much if you were doing a quest or looting a schematic that you could take to an AS).

Once upon a time (around launch basicly) the crafters and combatants stood together and worked together. The calls for "casual" gamer ease (there really aren't that many "casual" gamers in this game) has polarised the two sides against each other which has led to SOE going back and forth trying to balance the 2 sides. The simple truth is that the less they meddle with the association between crafter and combatant, the smoother it will be. Allow combatants to get what they need for their choice of weapons through quests or loot, but also allow the crafters to serve their purpose.

You'd be amazed at the relationships that grow between crafter when there is less competition and more cooperation between the two.

edited for typos.

Message Edited by SmugglinZane on 05-26-2005 12:09 PM