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black665label wrote:

They need to make it so the ARC-170 can be gotten by imperials and the JsF by rebels...This way we can all use the ships we want to use

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Up to the launch of ROTW, every ship in the game was set for only one line of pilot. There were no cross faction ships. If anyhting, they need to remove the cert from the repsective pilot professions. As an Imperial, I can not fly Privateer or Rebel ships. I should not be able to fly the ARC-170 either. A Rebel can not fly a TIE or a Decimator..they should not have the JSF either. This would take us all back to the way things were when they were simply, and would stop all the whining.

I found this out the hard way :/

You can complain what you want, but they aren't gonna change it. I dropped Alliance Ace and my rank to go imperial and do the Eta2 quest. I went rebel again and regrinded Ace. I don't have much time either but now I'm a happy owner of a Eta2 who can actually fly it

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I beg to differ, the KSE Firespray has always been cross faction. Most of the ship manufacturing companies do not recognize factions, but cash. You got the dough, you get the ship. I think it should be that if you learn to fly an x-wing, then switch to private or even neutral, you keep your x-wing certification. It's not like you forget what you've learned. That is to say, being able to fly a ship should not be tied to a faction, but it is reasonable to say that learning to fly a particular kind of ship is faction dependent.

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There needs to be some line between the game and realism. You can't learn a profession in SWG, drop it, and learn another, and still do everything you used to be able to do. Doesn't necessarily make sense, but it's important for game balance. Lots of people would say you shouldn't even have access to the Actis, ARC, or Belbullab cross faction.

If you think there's an whiny group upset about TIEs having hyperdrives, see what happens when rebel pilots can fly Imperial ships.

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Oikaleek wrote:

Prototype perhaps is a misleading term. Predecessor is more accurate. The logic you posted simply doesn't add up. It took the Empire 15-20 years to mass produce inferior versions of a superior fighter? That is basically what you are saying. Does that make sense? Perhaps to you it does based on your prototype example. Prototype typically signifies one model or a "select" few. All Jedi pilots, which i'm pretty sure was ALL of them at one time or another, flew the Jedi Starfighter. All of them. They all had their own.

It essentially comes down to this: technology does not fall backwards, especially in a universe with technology as complex as the star wars universe. To even think that a star fighter, staple of the imperial navy no less, would be inferior to a ship created 10-20 years earlier is a ridiculous notion and is reflected in the game with all of its ridiculousness culminated into the Actis Interceptor, the Belbullab 22 and the Arc-170.

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First, put down your Kessel Spice pipe and read up on Real World Earth History.

Technology does indeed go backwards on occasion.

The Roman Empire had technology available that was entirely lost for hundreds of years once the empire crumbled.

The Aztecs had scientific knowledge that was lost when their empire was destroyed.

Now, returning back to the Star Wars Universe...

In the Republic, the Holonet was a significant piece of the glue that held the galaxy together. It allowed for the tremendous growth of science and technology with the near instantaneous communication it provided. Palpatine completely took apart the Civilian branch of the Holonet and only allowed what was left to be used by Imperial Military Forces.

The Empire had the idea of "Use and Throwaway" as a core tenet of their military. A clear example of this was shown in "Empire Strikes Back" when Han Solo said something to effect of, "..before entering Hyperspace, standard Imperial protocol is to jettison their trash. We'll just float away with the garbage."

Then, we were all shown how much trash was actually thrown away. The kicker is that they ALWAYS throw out that kind of "trash" when they jump to Hyperspace.

That's just the way it is.

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Oikaleek wrote:

Thanks for bringing the real world technology into the picture...it only further proves my point.

What? That you completely ignore certain truths about the Star Wars Universe?

The Empire was born out of a galactic government that had existed for 25,000 years. Twenty-Five-Thousand Years. Yes, 25,000 years. There is simply no comparison to the advancement of technology that can happen over 25,000 years with such technologically advanced societies.

What were we humans doing on our own planet 25,000 years ago? Nobody really honestly knows, because we don't have any records that have lasted that long. Hopefully, if we don't blow ourselves up, humans will have an accurate idea about what happened in 2005 in the year 27,005 and I certainly believe that they will be quite a bit more advanced the the barely out of the caves technology that we currently have.

Oh boo hoo.

Hi, I'm a Rebel Jedi, just like everyone else.

Hi, I'm a Rebel. We own every planet on every server in the entire SWG game.

Hi, we Rebels outnumber you 10-to-1 on every planet on every server in the entire SWG game.

Hi, our X-Wing gets two gun mounts while your TIE Interceptor only gets one.

Hi, I can kill your AT-ST with one shot from my uberblaster.

Hi, did you know that Stormtrooper Armor won't stop drunken kamikaze sparrow?

Hi, did you know that Imperial NPC starfighters have no shields?

Wait ... you mean the devs actually made something cool for the Empire that works and NOT US?!?! OH HOLY BLASPHEMY! This just will not do! We almighty Rebel Jedi (which, incedentally composse 85% of the population of the entire SWG universe) hereby demand that you give us this new toy, also! Better yet, give it to us and take it away from the Empire! Yes, that's the ticket.

Because only then can game balance be restored!

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ShalaMedic wrote:

To my understanding, in order to own & pilot the very popular Jedi Starfighter you must in fact be an IMPERIAL to receive and complete the quest. Even though all 3 Pilot Professions are certified to use the starship, the ONLY way you can obtain one is by actually doing the quest yourself. This starship is non-tradable and cannot be sold.

Now this is a pretty big bummer to us non-imperial factioned players. I am a Rebel Jedi Knight with the Rebel Rank of Colonel. If I am to go IMPERIAL just for this ship I will end up losing my Rank as Colonel & I'm not sure if I would lose my Jedi Knight Tag since you need to be affiliated with either Rebel or Imperial Faction to become a Knight in the first place. What's even worse is taht I found this out just as I made Alliance ACE Pilot. This took me3 weeks to accomplish. I know it can be done quicker but I don't have that kind of time on me.

I am very disappointed.... sad I have become.... If the Jedi Starfighter was at least tradable it wouldn't be such a problem.

So... what shall I do? It's almost as if SOE is forcing players to surrender/lose what they have earned and into becoming part of a faction they know a high percentage of players don't want to be just so they can obtain the Jedi Starfighter... So us Rebels need to go through all of this?? w.t.f.!

Now here's the real question:

Why don't they (SOE) make it tradable? Hmmmm... why not indeed.................. I sense a disturbance in the force.

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Your a knight, so I'm guessing you know how to grind.... Space should be an easy sprint for a knight to grind out. Your also an ACE pilot so you will get double exp the 2nd pilot profession you grind. and 3x exp the 3rd time you regrind Rebel.

Yes, you are also correct. They did it that way so if you want the JsF or the Arc-170, you can ahve them but you either have to invest money or time. Pritty ingenous way to keep you playing the game huh :-P It's also the most classic way to keep you playing the game. (In EQ the staff of Wheel could have been 3 peices, instead it was 10 pieces you had too collect.)

Bye...

Message Edited by LRRCP on 07-08-2005 07:23 AM

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rols_cerentz wrote:

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Oikaleek wrote:

Prototype perhaps is a misleading term. Predecessor is more accurate. The logic you posted simply doesn't add up. It took the Empire 15-20 years to mass produce inferior versions of a superior fighter? That is basically what you are saying. Does that make sense? Perhaps to you it does based on your prototype example. Prototype typically signifies one model or a "select" few. All Jedi pilots, which i'm pretty sure was ALL of them at one time or another, flew the Jedi Starfighter. All of them. They all had their own.

It essentially comes down to this: technology does not fall backwards, especially in a universe with technology as complex as the star wars universe. To even think that a star fighter, staple of the imperial navy no less, would be inferior to a ship created 10-20 years earlier is a ridiculous notion and is reflected in the game with all of its ridiculousness culminated into the Actis Interceptor, the Belbullab 22 and the Arc-170.

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First, put down your Kessel Spice pipe and read up on Real World Earth History.

Technology does indeed go backwards on occasion.

The Roman Empire had technology available that was entirely lost for hundreds of years once the empire crumbled.

The Aztecs had scientific knowledge that was lost when their empire was destroyed.

Now, returning back to the Star Wars Universe...

In the Republic, the Holonet was a significant piece of the glue that held the galaxy together. It allowed for the tremendous growth of science and technology with the near instantaneous communication it provided. Palpatine completely took apart the Civilian branch of the Holonet and only allowed what was left to be used by Imperial Military Forces.

The Empire had the idea of "Use and Throwaway" as a core tenet of their military. A clear example of this was shown in "Empire Strikes Back" when Han Solo said something to effect of, "..before entering Hyperspace, standard Imperial protocol is to jettison their trash. We'll just float away with the garbage."

Then, we were all shown how much trash was actually thrown away. The kicker is that they ALWAYS throw out that kind of "trash" when they jump to Hyperspace.

That's just the way it is.

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You have a definite point on technology and the Fall of the Roman Empire.

I don't know much of the Aztecs, so I'll pass on them.

But...

There is only one part of the Imperial military that lends an absolute image of "throw away"... the TIE Fighter corps. They had only 3 redeeming traits: Cheap, Fast & Maneuverable, and decent firepower.

The Stormtroopers only appear throwaway because of one thing: Hero Syndrome. But practically everytime we see Imperial Stormtroopers face off against Rebel troopers, the Stormtroopers come out on top.

The Death Star wasn't exactly considered a "throaway" weapon platform either. The Empire put ALOT of resources into it. Lots of materials and personnel (including a Grand Moff) were put into the 1st Death Star. When that was destroyed, the Empire lost quite a bit. But due to the immense size and access to resources, the Empire shrugged off the losses and decided to build ANOTHER one. As we see from the Prequels, the Death Star's technology came from the Old Republic era (Geonosians), but the Old Republic could never in its wildest dreams put out a military machine like the Empire could.

The Imperial Navy definitely does NOT condone the throwaway mentality. Imperial Star Destroyers are superior than any warship the Old Republic ever could design and field. The ISDs are larger, more powerful, can carry numerous troops (w/ walkers), and 6 squadrons of starfighters. The ISDs aren't mere battleships with superior firepower and protection (which they do have), but they are multi-role battleships. They can do anything well. These aren't "throwaway" ships.

Another indication that the Empire doesn't fully accept "disposeable" units to fill its military: The Super Star Destroyers, the Executor-Class Star Destroyers. Large, immense, powerful, and in all likeliness: Expensive. That isn't exactly a disposeable ship class.

The garbage? What do you expect a ship on operations to do? ALL ships, expecially in the real world, only have so much space to store garbage or to incenerate them (and only certain types). If you have EVER been on a REAL military / Navy ship, you'll know what gets tossed overboard every couple days. If you're a treehugger, you will be dismayed, LOL!