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Thread: PROJECT: DUNELIZARD Do Privateers really have it that bad?

gohan6420
Sun Nov 28, 2004 11:48 pm
#53

Well your points are correct with the patch but prepatch these were S&*P.

Wait till rebs and imps get a lil more mass and we'll see if you still say we shouldn't get another ship.

before the patch we had problems with mass major problems as i fly a pre-patch rih can't find a SW to who has one on stocked. the

X-Wing was a better craft then the rih. So boost the X-Wing give us another craft and increase mass a lil more on the low lvlimp ships and i

bet everything will be almost nearly fine. But the lower imp ships were ment as fast fighters.
Cuality
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:18 am
#54






gohan6420 wrote:

Well your points are correct with the patch but prepatch these were S&*P.

Wait till rebs and imps get a lil more mass and we'll see if you still say we shouldn't get another ship.

before the patch we had problems with mass major problems as i fly a pre-patch rih can't find a SW to who has one on stocked. the

X-Wing was a better craft then the rih. So boost the X-Wing give us another craft and increase mass a lil more on the low lvlimp ships and i

bet everything will be almost nearly fine. But the lower imp ships were ment as fast fighters.





so what you are saying is that it was worse before, but they fixed the mass problems? but now the mass changes are in and the privateers are owners of some of the best ships.Tweaking imp masses (rebels have enough mass) would more than likely unbalance it even further since imps are supposed to have inferior ships to begin with but have access to more equipment and are more skilled (any imp pilot who finishes storm squadron either has more skill than any other pilot or has access to a lot of friends... and both make for better pilots)


how about they just give everyone new fighters? its easier to code new ships for each class than it is to tweak with the rest of the ships and possibly mess people up who have pre-patch ships.


The privateer's need a 2-player ship, rebels need another option to the x-wing, the imps need a fighter that is a solid base that can hold it's own and has a decent payout the TIE/D would be a decent addition in that.






(_-·._.)¯._Jarik Suul·._.·´¯(._-·._)
)¯`·.__.·-·._.* Dark Commando Troll*._-·._·._.·´¯(
~Trolleone Mafia~
truewildman
Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:47 am
#55






gohan6420 wrote:





Cuality wrote:





gohan6420 wrote:





Cuality wrote:





truewildman wrote:


The only way aship additionwould be viable is if it replaced one of our ships, to keep the number of ships even across the board.


Or, simply move a ship we already have to a Master cert, but I can just imagine the outcry that would be heard over that.




this is the most important post in the thread, something that every privateer needs to read. Each profession has the same relative number of ships, each with their strengths and weaknesses. If you toss another privateer ship into the master slot, then you would have to give the other professions another ship to even things out.







Hmmmmm. Give privateer another master ship isint too bad seeing how we only get 2 at master but the firespray dont count so 1 and the others 2 each so no privateer one more ship would not hurt and ppl that would see no fair they get another ship is unfair well we dont have as many ships at master so that is unfair




but you get all of your ships earlier... while the imps and rebs have to wait. the ship count is the same... each has 6 fighters to choose from and 1 MP ship... if you give the privateers a ship at master they would get 7 fighters and an MP ship... while the imps and rebels are still stuck with 6 fighters each.


i guess if you really want a master ship you can take one of your other ships and put it in the master tree. Probably the black sun bomber since it moves just like the b-wing and oppressor.









Yes but the kimo is crap.


and the Y-Wing and Longprobe is a tank.








I say toe-may-toe, you say toe-mah-toe, but the Kimo is far from being crap! For a Tier 2 ship, it has 90k mass and several gun hard points and 2 launchers.


And it doesn't handle too bad on top of that.






Boslo
-Elder Smuggler/Elder Commando-
Ra'van Crowe
-Elder Smuggler/Elder BH-
I'on
-Pirate-
"You gotta be a little insane to stay sane."
Cuality
Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:18 am
#56

Fine. We'll say imps have 7 fighters. I would like you to point out one imperial pilot who will voluntarily fly their tier 1 or tier 2 fighter. You won't find any. Those ships are disposable and once finished with them, you are forced to pick up the next available fighter for need of mass. I have seen master rebel pilots flying their tier 1's and 2's. The whole point of this thread is saying how the privateer tier1 fighteris an awesome ship and still used by masters. The only privateer ships you probably won't see is the tier 2 ships. The dune lizard is better than the kih (which incidentallyisabout even in speed and agility as an Int... and has the same mass)and the rah is better than the kimo. The point of the matter is that the other professions have the option to use lower tier equipment. There is nothing that the TIE/F or the TIE/IN offers that makes them a better fighter than the TIE/INT. In fact, i tried to pawn off my 35k mass TIE/F but couldn't find a buyer (incidentally, i don't know about everyone else's servers... but ahazi TIE/Fs are clocking in at 25k mass standard... we must have better steel or something)


The advanced is slower and less maneuverable than the interceptor, though it does add in another weapon slot and 15k mass to put something in. It is also nearly an even match for the dunelizard... a tier 4 imp fighter, that is in fact worse than a tier 2 privateer fighter simply because a dune can get a higher mass, allows for greater speed and manueverabilty and offers the same weapon payout. The oppressor is even on maneuverability and speed with a y-wing. It has mass, though not as much as the Rih or the b-wing, yet only 2 blaster slots. 3 missile slots are a decent payload, but missiles and bombs can get expensive and without an imp skill to reload in space, is worthless once you use up those 36 some odd missiles.


so essentially, the advanced and the oppressor are worse off than the equal ships on other professions tiers... the interceptor is the true fighter for the imps. It is easily the quickest and most agile out of the group...


As for the defender... it's really nothing more than a pipedream, something that would be cool, but would be too overpowering for the imps. perhaps a seperate quest or something for it... i dunno, perhaps it's best they just leave it out.


However, it is as you say right now... balanced. Imps get their pick from a clutch of fast, speedy fighters but lose out in all ways in terms of durability and power. Rebels have fighters that are usable at any level and privateers have their choice between a mixture of superior fighters as well as the fact that the privateer's can customize their ships to extreme proportions.


You can look all you want at numbers of ships, but simply put... every imp ship below tier 3 is worthless junk and the only thing that the imperials gain from flying them is actual flying skill since if you can actually survive flying one of those deathtraps... you can survive anything.





(_-·._.)¯._Jarik Suul·._.·´¯(._-·._)
)¯`·.__.·-·._.* Dark Commando Troll*._-·._·._.·´¯(
~Trolleone Mafia~
Zanholo
Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:30 am
#57

To the guy who doesn't like the dune's 'space shuttle' looks, try the other style. I too don't like the tube modelm but love the smaller, scyk-like model. Especially with a 92 engine it's probably our sweetest looking ship. Give it a paintjob though...those default colors...blech...


I love toying around with the dune, but there is no way I would use it over the Rihk in a serious fight, dogfight or otherwise.



(((Oishii Sou'Na))) - Scylla, Silver Bay, Naboo, SS Ace
(((LAkers Pwn))) - Tempest, CorSec Master Pilot
Furnishings, city items, art, p-ups, best repair tools & more!
Lakers Pro Shop & City Tent, S. Coronet, -410/-5480Interior Visions, S. Theed, -5275/3355
(((Goki Buri))) - Chilastra, South Coronet, Havoc 2/2/1/1
truewildman
Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:11 pm
#58




Zanholo wrote:

To the guy who doesn't like the dune's 'space shuttle' looks, try the other style. I too don't like the tube modelm but love the smaller, scyk-like model. Especially with a 92 engine it's probably our sweetest looking ship. Give it a paintjob though...those default colors...blech...


I love toying around with the dune, but there is no way I would use it over the Rihk in a serious fight, dogfight or otherwise.







Yes, mine is Style one. That's the one that has a nose like an F-15 fighter. Style two is what he's talking about.



Here they are:


Style 1


Style 2

Message Edited by truewildman on 11-29-2004 01:20 PM





Boslo
-Elder Smuggler/Elder Commando-
Ra'van Crowe
-Elder Smuggler/Elder BH-
I'on
-Pirate-
"You gotta be a little insane to stay sane."
DrakoonShao
Mon Nov 29, 2004 1:36 pm
#59







Cuality wrote:


-i count the LD TIE, TIE and TIE/In as the same. simply because you can get all their masses to about the same aspect. In fact i had a friend make me a standard TIE that had more massthan i found on a TIE/In. There is no difference between them except for manueverabilty from the engines and color... it really isn't that much of a difference.


-But we can also look at the rebels... they get 1 fighter per teir, so they, in effect, have less ships than the other 2, especially since one of their fightersis only effective with a gunner. So in effect... the rebels have 5 fighters that they can use solo which gives them the least amount of options.


-how about they just give everyone new fighters? its easier to code new ships for each class than it is to tweak with the rest of the ships and possibly mess people up who have pre-patch ships.


-The privateer's need a 2-player ship, rebels need another option to the x-wing, the imps need a fighter that is a solid base that can hold it's own and has a decent payout the TIE/D would be a decent addition in that.








Ok, I don't want to get too far off the topic of privateer ships but I'm going to respond to some things you posted. I should hit on all the points above plus some.


I thought over this some more at work (I work in photo retouching, manipulation and restoration and it can get kinda boring if I'm just doing retouching) and while I went over it most of the night, Istill don't understand how you can group 3 ties and say they are basically the same. By that logic the Dune and the Ixiyen can be grouped as the "same" and still leaves Privateers down by one ship. If anything, as I said before, I'm willing to give the imps a count of 7 by grouping the Tie Fighter and the Tie/In as "the same", especially since you say you can get a Tie Fighter up to 35k mass.Can the guy that made it do it regularly? It sounds like aone in a miillion thing or possibly a bug. I've never even seen one that high from a buddy of mine that has the best resources and produces the best ships I've seen on Gorath (he made my 86k plus mass Dune). That said, I don't think you can list the Light Duty along with those though simply because it's a starter ship. It has mass and setting to balance it with the other faction's starters. Iespecially don'tthink it can't be listed as "the same" if you really can get a Tie Fighter up to 35k mass. Let's face it, listing 3 ships as "the same" when the mass difference between the lowest and highest is almost 30k and the agility difference is 300 is quite a stretch. Simply put the Light Duty is no where near the same as the Tie/In. That stillleaves theRebs and Privateers down by one.


After looking over and thinking aboutthe ships,I also think I thought of an idea for a balanced Rebel ship to be added as well as the turreted Rihxyrk I mentioned earlier. They could give the Rebs a second ship at Tier 1 (to go along with the Y-Wing). This ship could be calledsomething along the lines of"Modified" or "Heavy" Z-95. It could have 35k mass and a p/y/r similar to the regular Tie Fighter (or maybe slightly higher mass with a lower p/y/r to maintain the tie's rank as a manueverable fighter, something like 50k mass and a p/y/r of 200 or 250). It would also only have 1 weapon mount. This would give the beginner Rebels an alternative to being forced into the heavy, slow Y-Wing, with more mass than the starter z-95and would balance out the Tie Fighter / Tie/In rather nicely in my mind(which is what I believe they are missing). Once again, likea Turreted Rihxyrk, it would use a modified version of the current model and therefore, also like a Turreted Rihxyrk, not step on Imp toes by giving them a ship that looks the "same".


The other benefit of both the ships I am suggesting is that they would be pretty quick to implement. They wouldn't take as long as making new fighters from scratch (as you suggested) and since they would be new "variants" it wouldn't be tweaking. Seriously, it's the easiest fix I can think of that would be "fair" to all. From that point foward, new ships could then bematched upagainst each other, rather than having to match them up with older ships.


Finally, I seriously don't see how Imps need another ship either. I'm basing this off of what Imp flying experience I have so far, plus flying with Imps with my Privteer character and also things I've read in the forums. The Advanced and Oppressor seem to be a more than worthy combo for high end Imperial Pilots. In fact the one you seem to be asking for sounds like an "uber" killing machine that currently has no match up in the other 2 factions. Hopefully, down the road when they make "Elite" pilot professions it would be a possiblity but I don't see it being something that is needed as a balance now. Once again Imps are supposed to have the agility edge vs the other factions compared to mass at their respective tiers, which they currently have.



Drakkoon Shao (Gorath) -- Smuggler
Smuggler's Alliance Ace-- Vaksai - Firespray - YT-1300 - YT-2400 - ARC - Scyk

Shaelyna Kadas (Gorath) -- Spy
Novice Pilot -- Heavy Tie Fighter

Kallarrlo (Gorath) -- 12pt Wookiee Weaponsmith and Alliance Ace

Opyso (Gorath) -- Ithorian Force Adept


Zanholo
Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:06 pm
#60




The dunelizard style 1 looks awesome an 'old' 92 reward engine. Here's an address I wish I could figure out how to make clicky...



edit: hmmm...I now see the edit as html link...is that the wrong command?


edit 2: had wrong addy for pict and thanks for the link help


edit 3: hmm...well something's up with our site upload so no cool pict for you atm sorry for the post...suffice to say a nice paintjob and the 92 engine look sweet on that baby.


Message Edited by Zanholo on 11-29-2004 01:29 PM



(((Oishii Sou'Na))) - Scylla, Silver Bay, Naboo, SS Ace
(((LAkers Pwn))) - Tempest, CorSec Master Pilot
Furnishings, city items, art, p-ups, best repair tools & more!
Lakers Pro Shop & City Tent, S. Coronet, -410/-5480Interior Visions, S. Theed, -5275/3355
(((Goki Buri))) - Chilastra, South Coronet, Havoc 2/2/1/1
truewildman
Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:14 pm
#61




Zanholo wrote:


The dunelizard style 1 looks awesome an 'old' 92 reward engine. Here's an address I wish I could figure out how to make clicky...




Clicky!DIV>

edit: hmmm...I now see the edit as html link...is that the wrong command?

Message Edited by Zanholo on 11-29-2004 01:07 PM










Boslo
-Elder Smuggler/Elder Commando-
Ra'van Crowe
-Elder Smuggler/Elder BH-
I'on
-Pirate-
"You gotta be a little insane to stay sane."
truewildman
Mon Nov 29, 2004 2:15 pm
#62


Hmm...can't link to that site anyway.


Anywho, you click on the "Edit as HTML" link at the bottom of your post window. Then, you type <a href="url of pic here">Text, like "Clicky!" </a>

Message Edited by truewildman on 11-29-2004 03:17 PM





Boslo
-Elder Smuggler/Elder Commando-
Ra'van Crowe
-Elder Smuggler/Elder BH-
I'on
-Pirate-
"You gotta be a little insane to stay sane."
slave138
Mon Nov 29, 2004 4:59 pm
#63






truewildman wrote:

Y'know, as I read through these, I think the big difference is both Imperials and Rebels have a very fast ship prior to master, and with the better mass than the Kihraxz, can use it longer.


So, you get used to it. Then, when you get your Oppressor or Bwing, you'rre so used to the speed and handling of the Interceptor/Awing that it seems slower.


I remember when I went from the Kimo to the Rihk, I thought it handled pretty well. I was surprised. Yet, it handles the same as the Oppressor.


Also, 2 hard points versus 3 hard points, if it has close to the same mass, the results in total damage are much closer than many think.We have 3 guns with 190k mass,we have to divide the masswe have left over for the guns divided by 3. In the Oppressor, you have 170k mass. You'll have about the same mass left over for weapons, but divided by 2, allowing for much more powerful guns.


So, we can load 3 guns at about 3.3k damage each, resulting in 9.9k damage per rotation. You can put in 2 4.2k (or higher) damage weapons, resulting in 8.4 damage per rotation.


So, it's not as much more as people may think.





I agree with your point about the speed differences. They only seem really slow when going from the normally fast TIEs. When I first went to a Kimo after flying a Dune for awhile, the Kimo seemed really slow, but as I got used to the way it handled, I found the loss in maneuverabilty to be reasonable when compared to the additional firepower and mass.


Your point about the weapons is less accurate. By having 3 points in my Kimo, I can mount one of each weapon type (all with damage in the 1000-1500 range - hey, I'm only a 2-2-2-2 pilot right now). I link the blaster with my ion in one firing group and the blaster and disruptor in another group and map the groups to 1 and 2 on the keyboard. I chew up most Tier 4 shields in 3-4 shots with the ion combo and the armor in just as many shots with the disruptor group. If I can get behind the ship (which is the most difficult thing with the slower speed), I can take out most Tier4's within 20 seconds. That extra weapon point helps me tremendously. My Dune mounted with any combination of those weapons takes about twice as long to bring the opponents down even if it is a little more maneuverable.


My only wish for the Rihk, is for more missle points as we really do not have a "bomber" as Privateers. Our slow ships are more like Gunships since they have as much missle/bomb capability as any other fighter.


As a final unrelated comment for anyone who thinks we have it so great, just remember out of all the droid programs and special abilitiesPrivateers have the worst.




~Ahnaki Obe
Adventurer
FORMER Master Carbineer | Freelance Flight Artist
CANCELLED


~Cayce Obe
Crafter
FORMER Master Artisan | Master Shipwright | Droid Engineer | Merchant
CANCELLED



gohan6420
Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:04 pm
#64

Well I like your style but i like the combo of just useing 3.5k .6 something blaster and a ion with in the 3.5k area

Too lazy to switch back and forth and too lazy to get a 190k mass rih to even have enough mass to put the 3rd weapon in.




/shrug


slave138
Mon Nov 29, 2004 5:09 pm
#65






gohan6420 wrote:

Well I like your style but i like the combo of just useing 3.5k .6 something blaster and a ion with in the 3.5k area

Too lazy to switch back and forth and too lazy to get a 190k mass rih to even have enough mass to put the 3rd weapon in.





I don't think I can find anything in that range at a 4-5 max component level...




~Ahnaki Obe
Adventurer
FORMER Master Carbineer | Freelance Flight Artist
CANCELLED


~Cayce Obe
Crafter
FORMER Master Artisan | Master Shipwright | Droid Engineer | Merchant
CANCELLED



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