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Thread: LAME #%@ PVP
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Isendale
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:35 pm
#40
I don't really have a problem with PVP in space, but if people start camping thewarp points like you say they do, then I'll be pissed. Which is inevitable, SWG is full of gankers, "1337 d00ds" and dumbf*cks, but oh well. SO far I haven't had a problem, and so far, skill and flying has prevailed. I'm 2-2-2-2, almost 2-3-2-2, and I fly a Kihraxz. My friend flies a Dunelizard, she's 2-3-2-2 as well. We dueled kinda like those old-fashioned duels. Backs, or in this case, engines to eachother, and then when the duel starts, then we fight. When it started, (also: I was flying a Syck at this time, she had her Dunelizard), together we made something of a figure eight pattern, and I turned fast enough to get to a diagonal angle to her back, I quickly lead my target, and boom, in shot or two, her front shields were down, her front armor was gone, and certain systems were damaged. I knew she didn't wanna blow up so I stopped firing and she announced she surrendered. Chalk up 1 win for me.
Second time, I was still 1-1-1-1, she was 2-2-1-1, and her equipment far outgraded mine, much more damage. This time I let my guarddown (probably overconfidence because of the last duel)and she got behind me, and she took out my engines in a few shots! Naturally, I was forced to eject. She ended the duel though, before this.
Third duel, which we had only a few days ago, we were both 2-2-2-2, and I had my Kihraxz. We decided to try something new, now we start 1500 away from eachother.Fun for me, I have the more manueverable fighter. 
She did get me worried at times, her guns are mighty strong. It went like this, we started facing eachother, the moment the duel started, boom, I hit full throttle.Knowing full well that I'd die easily head-on, when we got to a particular range, I pulled a roll to my left and hit my boosters, and started rolling, turning, and basically dodging like my life depended on it, and it did, or at least my SWG toon's life. She almost hit me, but not quite. After I zipped past her side, she tried to turn, but by then I already had her in my sights, so I boosted forward, lowered the throttle, and turned right behind her. I quickly took her weapons and boosters down to a disabled status in less than 5 seconds. She gave up and I ended duel.
She did get me worried at times, her guns are mighty strong. It went like this, we started facing eachother, the moment the duel started, boom, I hit full throttle.Knowing full well that I'd die easily head-on, when we got to a particular range, I pulled a roll to my left and hit my boosters, and started rolling, turning, and basically dodging like my life depended on it, and it did, or at least my SWG toon's life. She almost hit me, but not quite. After I zipped past her side, she tried to turn, but by then I already had her in my sights, so I boosted forward, lowered the throttle, and turned right behind her. I quickly took her weapons and boosters down to a disabled status in less than 5 seconds. She gave up and I ended duel.You see, it all depends on the strategies and tactics you use, she had her advantage with big weaponry, I had my advantage with a more manueverable fighter. And my sayig goes like this: How can you destroy something you can't hit? 
Phoenixrage
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:39 pm
#41
Oh did I mention its been 5 days and I still havn't finished part 1 of my master mission due to this...
Bloodshead
Thu Nov 04, 2004 9:53 pm
#42
Belicose wrote:
Well, look at this another way. With the way it is, there is a chance for a smaller group to overcome a larger one. If you inflate the time it takes to kill a ship, there will be more time for the larger side to gang up on individuals.
rahzael wrote:
Bleemo wrote:
my opinion is, there shld be a reduction, if u are good u can
out maneuver the shots anyway. but its more fun to fight 30 secs
than 2 secs. than it will be the skill and equipment matter, not
the who was lucky enough to sneak up and had the first lucky shot.
this is the point.
those who wish to keep it as is just dont look beyond themselves. they need to realize that although for them a 2 hit battle is fun, alot of people wont enjoy it. they are skilled most likely, and deserve the edge, but they also need to realize that this game is also played by people who arent godly at flight sims.
who is worse off: the player who is "forced" to play 30 seconds longer to kill a player because of a reduction in damage, although hell still manage the kill
, or the player who dies in two hits and gives up in pvp.
please just look at it from all angles. i know it would hurt it for you if it took you substantially longer to kill someone, but look at the other side...dying in 2 seconds is alot more frustrating than killing your enemy in 30.
You need to focus on the more realisitc point of view. Should a group of 5 be able to take out a group of 20??? No, not unless all those 5 are aces and the 20 happen to be rookiees. 30 second kill leaves just enough time to target the person attacking you, evade and start to get on his tail. With it is now, once you get someone on your 6, you will be staring at that eject button before you have time to move your stick. Think of this 75% damage reduction like it was during the early days of SWG. Its not like theres going to be a "composite armor" or "uber shields" in space. It will be like fighting with acdef and bone armor. Right now, its like shooting a dunri as master rifleman. Doesnt know your coming till its too late.
This will actually encourage groups to go hunting, because if 1 person can take out a group of 20?? How will that encourage pvp groups. Pvp groups have been fun and you can actually stratigize your attacks without just flying in and blasting everything 1 hit KO. That doesnt encourage anything except for greifers.
Guillero
Thu Nov 04, 2004 11:55 pm
#43
When I read all this I must realy realy laugh out loud at the people that are sooooo ignorant and calling other noobs!!
Well to crush some ACE DREAMS here!! Those ignorants calling themselves ACES and calling other Noobs ...you are the ones who SUCK!! period!
As at this point its nothing about skill whatsoever!
That in the StarWars Movies the ships got blown up by 3-5 shots onlyis to make the movie more enjoyable and fast! No one likes to watch a dogfight between 2 ships on a screen for 10-15 minutes before he dies!
As the techniques then in that time wasn't good enough to give you feeling of tremendous speed...they balanced it by getting ships going down in flames faster!! In starwars moviesit was like the fighters had NO shields at all?? Only the capital ships and the Millenium Falcon...as they wanted those ships longer visible on the screen...LOL
In the later years when movies like TopGun came you noticed that dogfights became longer ...as speed of the jets where awesome (still like that movie a lot! As I am a jet fanatic) ...it was okay to make the dogfights last longer on the screen and make them more realistic!
To come back on this game:
PvP is FAR from realistic when it comes to PvP! PvP is inbalanced in groundgame...so it is in Space!!
As at this moment .....for example ...I am more experienced in FlightSims (have done it for 15 years or so now) I could take a custom Z95 ...go to a PvP zone and blast away less experienced players in far more powerfull ships with the same 3-4 shots!!!
Only one word: CRAZY and STUPID!! As why should I spent all my credits in buying a real expensive chassis and real expensive armor/shields etc ...as only luck, experience and a good joystick (I have the X45) is enough to blast away!
The heavier the ship...the heavier the armor...the heavier the shields...the more time it takes to blast away someone! THATS REALISTIC!!
It gives me much more satisfaction bystaying on a player's tail for more then 30 seconds trying to penetrate trough his shields and armorand then finally blast him away! IF YOU CAN MANAGE THAT NUMEROUS TIMES!! THEN YOU CAN CALL YOURSELF AN ACE!!
....and not because you are lucky to get behind him first and blast him away with one push on the button!!
There is no satisfaction or glory by sitting at spawnpoints waiting for players just spawning and then blasting them away before they got any chance pushing the throttle forward! Then you are a NOOB!! an game breaking NOOB!! NOT an ACE!
yayson
Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:20 am
#44
OKAY, this is the first thing I have complained about in the entire game!
I love JTL, love the missions, hate pvp. Having to do the missions is hard enough, but to get killed so fast by a player while trying to complete your mission is stupid. 2nd I dont like space pvp, realistic or not, it is no fun for a 1-3 shot match. The fun and skill in my opinion is trying to position yourself, make some moves, not a 5 sec match with a few lucky shots. Im not complaining cause I keep dying, I kill a lot too. And its only been a week since JTL has been out, and already its full of people. How is anyone going to be able to do their mission when its full of people? Keep the PvP system the same if you have to, but atleast change the master missions.
I love JTL, love the missions, hate pvp. Having to do the missions is hard enough, but to get killed so fast by a player while trying to complete your mission is stupid. 2nd I dont like space pvp, realistic or not, it is no fun for a 1-3 shot match. The fun and skill in my opinion is trying to position yourself, make some moves, not a 5 sec match with a few lucky shots. Im not complaining cause I keep dying, I kill a lot too. And its only been a week since JTL has been out, and already its full of people. How is anyone going to be able to do their mission when its full of people? Keep the PvP system the same if you have to, but atleast change the master missions.
ScReemB
Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:28 am
#45
SharkBoy007 wrote:
Keep the PvP where it's at. However, move the master mission to an instanced version of Kessel, if it absolutely needs to be there. The last thing we need is people being unable to complete their master mission because other's have done so, and get their rocks off griefing people under the pretense of being "ace pilots".
Agree even though i have played loads of flight sims in the past and am still heavily into the UT ictf scene at present on CB etc so my reflexes are reasonably high for pvp ship action in JTL.As yourself and other people here have said in this post and other posts the ground games clone camping/shuttleport camping has now transferred itself into space with people doing the same for the hyperspace points into kessel. This was said during the beta by a lot of people that having the master mission in a pvp zone could lead to what we are now seeing.
PVP in space is fine and i agree with having it but when it turns into pvp gank squads in space camping respawn points to get easy kills it makes a mockery of pvp as what skill is there in spawn camping. As if any of these players tried the same spawn campingin any UT public server a complaint to the admin and these players would be banned from the server. As an ex Blueyonder UT public admin i have banned people for spawn camping as the game is meant to be fun and a challenege and not who can ruin someone elses day by being lame.In the case of JTLspawn camping in kessel to get easy kills and prevent people becoming master, might be fun for those twisted people who think this way but the majority of us this isn't fun it's pure and simple griefing.
SCM T'R
hase2
Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:40 am
#46
noone gets one shot killed.
even with mark 3 protons you dont one shot kill anyone. (i think there is a PvP damage reduction since it should kill you in one shot)
the main problem is that most ppl cruise through kessel ignoring the fact they are overt and attackable. and they dont pay attention.
Situational Awareness it the key. know whats going on around you. when you see an enemy player, check if he has friends and decide what to do.
just make a macro that targets the nearest enemy player every few seconds. then you see your enemies from several K away.
that leaves you enough time to either run or prepare your attack.
another thing i see in kessel is that loads of ppl bring slow unmaneuverable ships to kessel. in PvP they are at a clear disadvantage without escorts.
the time you 'have' to enter kessel every faction has a small fast and maneuverable ship to use there.
when you want to grind out your tier2 XP there. well, take the risk of getting killed.
even with damage reduction you wont survive the first pass of an enemy interceptor. nor you would be able turn your ship.
yayson
Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:47 am
#47
I have been killed with 1 shot, and have killed with 1 shot. I use an A wing and constantly scan for opposing players. Last time I saw some one, he was 2.8k away, we both came at eachother. He got 1st shot in, he won.. Not really fun. Had my droid with shields to front, nice 2k shields with 15 regen too. The gun I am using is about 3.1k and kills in 1 shot (usually)
I think they should make the master very hard, but there is an element to PvP that a lot of people really do not like, aside from the ongoing argument about space pvp dmg etc.
I think they should make the master very hard, but there is an element to PvP that a lot of people really do not like, aside from the ongoing argument about space pvp dmg etc.
Message Edited by yayson on 11-05-2004 01:50 AM
SharkBoy007
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:25 pm
#49
Keep the PvP where it's at. However, move the master mission to an instanced version of Kessel, if it absolutely needs to be there. The last thing we need is people being unable to complete their master mission because other's have done so, and get their rocks off griefing people under the pretense of being "ace pilots".
Mox Shehalis
Stranglet
Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:37 pm
#50
Kinshi wrote:
EQUIPMENT DOES NOT EQUAL A GOOD PILOT. It does not matter how uber your stuff is in space, its how well you pay attention!!! If you have been hologrinding for the last year then your reflexes have gone flabby and you mind has too. You will die and its not because JTL sucks, its because YOU suck.
I dont care if you have tier 20 equipment, if you fly like a cow then you will get slaughtered like one.
you're failing tosee things clearly. skill is not the end all; it's a combination of equipment and skill. you show me the pure skill your going to use with level 1 equipment to take out a corvette, or even a level two gunboat(both of which fly like cows)! no amount twisting, turning,or being aware of the position and speed of your enemies is going to make that work. your capacitor will run out and their shields will recharge long before you get them down to95%, not to mention the damage they will be doing to your ship. luke did not take on the death star alone, and i would say he had some skill. a 1 shot kill is not skill when it can be anywhere on the ship!!!!! i could understand if there was one super weak point that if you hit it did tons of damage (eg a headshot),but anywhere on the ship, anyone can do that.
also someone mentioned something about they like the quick combat... quick and instant are VERY different.5-10, or even 15,hits can be done quickly by a skilled pilot. i don't understand how your equating 1 shot killing someone to you having skill? hitting someone once is not difficult at all. anyone who has been playing5 minhas the ability to shootrandomlyin the area of your enemy for a few seconds, and hit them once on pure luck. iagree combat should be quick with skilled pilots, but not instantwhich require no skill or tactics.
oh and just out of curiosity, what part of the ground game works the reflexes? 
Message Edited by Stranglet on 11-05-2004 01:32 AM
Kerago
Thu Jan 13, 2005 8:44 pm
#51
Sorry to revive this thread but I figured it was probably a better idea than starting my own.
Some points to consider for people in favor of "quick" PvP, especially those who use the Movie's as Canon (the standard for realism).
1. The action in the movies was not designed with games in mind. They had other driving considerations, like number of effects shots that could be done in the time they had, budget etc.
2. The pilots in the movies never had to deal with lag.
I'm sorry to break it you people, but JTL is, in fact, a game. Given that it is an online game, lag is a factor that needs to be considered.
Today I died twice due to being disabledbefore evenreceiving a targeting reticlein head on combat against an A-Wing. In other words, my opponent saw me in range before I saw him in range, which is a failing of netcode. This is with a ping of 180. The shorter combat is, the greater the advantage to the person with the better connection to the server. I think we can all agree that the deciding factor in combat should be some combination of talent and dedication, not geographical proximity to the game server.
This is simply not possible when a ship can be disable or destroyed with very few shots.
Before you write me off as a noob with no combat experience, while I do admit to being a relative noob to PvP in JTL, I have several years experience in space combat in Jumpgate. Jumpgate is a space game with an excellent flight engine, that is unfortunately dying for reasons unrelated to it's flight engine, which is excellent.
It is truly a shame that JTL's developers have apparently never heard of or tried Jumpgate. They could have learned an awful lot, both from the successes and mistakes of its developers.
From previous posts on this thread I guess I can expect a lot of abuse from the "PvP should be quick" faction, but my skin is very thick from the same kinds of arguments on Jumpgate's boards. However, I would be pleasantly surprised from some calm and logical arguments in favor of one-pass PvP.
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