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Thread: A Suggestion: Turn the TIE Interceptor Into a Dedicated Gunfighter
XFS0701 wrote:
Of course, seeing the NPC Interceptors dogfight, you'd think they had MkIV equipment stuffed into a tier 2 ship...And don't even get me started on tier 4 Scyks! It's utterly annoying to have a top speed of 848, 1050 with boosters, and have an Interceptor or Scyk fly circles around you...especially when they're a lower tier than you are.
Did the developers actually keep the "exploited NPC ships" in? Are they still calling it "AI"?
Here's a list of what we currently have (in white) and where they devs have 'added' on, I've placed what it should be in red. I've also noticed that the devs gave shields to some of the TIEs, but this is acceptable because most players won't be flying with squads of TIEs like the original ones were designed to.
Imperial:
TIE Fighter:
Projectile Weapons: 1
Missile: 1 0
TIE Bomber:
Projectile Weapons: 2 1
Missile: 2 (the Bomber does have a fairly large pod on it allowing for multiple payloads)
TIE Interceptor:
Projectile Weapons: 1 2
Missile: 1 0
TIE Advanced:
Projectile Weapons: 2
Missile: 1
Rebel:
Z-95:
Projectile Weapons: 1
Missile: 1
Y-Wing:
Projectile Weapons: 2
Missile: 1
Y-Wing LongProbe:
Projectile Weapons: 2
Missile: 2 1
X-Wing:
Projectile Weapons: 3 2
Missile: 2 1
A-Wing:
Projectile Weapons: 1
Missile: 1
B-Wing:
Projectile Weapons: 4 3
Missile: 2 1
Now while some things such as the X-Wing's 3 weapons can be considered as 'ok' because we're supposed to have the option of customizing our craft where as most run of the mill pilots don't, other things like the extra missle launchers are not 'ok' because phisically the fighter craft just do not have that kind of room on them.
I personally would like to see a lot of these things returned back to the way they are supposed to be... including the TIE Interceptor's use of 2 weapons, not 1.
Message Edited by FuryoftheStars on 10-31-2004 11:25 PM
Message Edited by FuryoftheStars on 11-01-2004 11:27 AM
KaylBreinhar wrote:
You ALSO get 50k extra mass to play with, even though it costs the same amount of resources to make an X-Wing as it does an Interceptor
Ahh, yes. This is something else that I've noticed that's wacked. The TIE series were supposed to cost less (meaning less resources used on them), which is why the Empire was able to throw them out by the thousands (that and they also had the pilot population to support it) where as the rebellion's fighters cost more (more resources) and why they weren't able to put out as many.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
X-Wing:
Projectile Weapons: 3 2
Missile: 2 1
I would agree to an extent. The Rebels had an advantage in that most of their ships were multi-role strike bombers, I would equate the X-Wing with an FA-18. The Empire, however, mass-produced cheap, single-role fighters and stuffed them full of pretty terrible pilots. The Empire's powerful, multi-role fighters like the Advanced and, in this game, the Oppressor/Aggressor would only have been given to the most elite pilots, meaning they probably numbered less than the Rebellion.
The TIE Interceptor, however, is a little different. It was designed to replace the standard TIE Fighter, using only slightly more resources than the original TIE design but incorporating better speed and manuverability, as well as significantly increased firepower. Over the course of the Rebellion, it became more and more widely used.
How about this: give it the two Projectile slots it deserves, remove it's missile capacity, increase it's mass a bit to allow for better engines etc, then limit what kind of shields it can have. The TIE Interceptor was designed with the phrase "stripped down" in mind, so any shield set up would be a jury-rig and likely not as strong as shields on a ship designed to incorporate them. Thats your tradeoff, speed, manuverability and powerful weapons, but if a Rebel gets on your six, you better be a damn good pilot or you're mincemeat.
GadonThek wrote:
"Agreed for the most part except I think the Rebels should have a slight advantage at least in certain situations. The Imperials have advantages on the ground, the Rebels should get slight advantages in space."
I would agree to an extent. The Rebels had an advantage in that most of their ships were multi-role strike bombers, I would equate the X-Wing with an FA-18. The Empire, however, mass-produced cheap, single-role fighters and stuffed them full of pretty terrible pilots. The Empire's powerful, multi-role fighters like the Advanced and, in this game, the Oppressor/Aggressor would only have been given to the most elite pilots, meaning they probably numbered less than the Rebellion.
The TIE Interceptor, however, is a little different. It was designed to replace the standard TIE Fighter, using only slightly more resources than the original TIE design but incorporating better speed and manuverability, as well as significantly increased firepower. Over the course of the Rebellion, it became more and more widely used.
How about this: give it the two Projectile slots it deserves, remove it's missile capacity, increase it's mass a bit to allow for better engines etc, then limit what kind of shields it can have. The TIE Interceptor was designed with the phrase "stripped down" in mind, so any shield set up would be a jury-rig and likely not as strong as shields on a ship designed to incorporate them. Thats your tradeoff, speed, manuverability and powerful weapons, but if a Rebel gets on your six, you better be a damn good pilot or you're mincemeat.
The Interceptor was quite a bit more potent than just a "stripped down" fighter.
Using your own system of comparison, the X-Wing is a strike fighter. A dual-role, jack-of-all-trades, master-of-one strike platform capable of battling it's way into strategic zones, delivering its ordinance, and fighting its way back out.
The Interceptor, on the other hand, is designed for a single role - Spatial (couldn't use 'aerial') Dominance/Superiority. The Interceptor is akin to an F-15C, designed from the ground up to kick the piss out of only one type of enemy, spatial threats. This is why I think the thing should be a general purpose gunfighter with the mass to match.
The simple fact remains that the Interceptor was made to counter the X-Wing specifically. This would require at least 90k mass and 2p/2m to be fair, 100k ideally.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 11-01-2004 06:32 AM
"Although rarer fighter models exist with greater performance -- such as the TIE Defender -- the TIE interceptor represents the pinnacle of the TIE series."
You can't be the "pinnacle in the series" if you've got 10k more to work with over the TIE/In.
And as for the "TIEs don't have shields, so shut up and deal" people:
"During the time of Grand Admiral Thrawn's campaign, several TIE interceptors were seen to carry shield generators, indicating their importance to the struggling Imperial effort."
One thing the page does NOT mention is the inclusion of any missile launchers.
Message Edited by KaylBreinhar on 11-01-2004 06:35 AM
Shade70 wrote:
The Interceptor are supposed to be slighter slowly and less maneuverable than the TIE
-- A6
Vicotnik wrote:
Why would you need a new capacitor? All weapons drain from the same capacitor, that is why it's not always a good idea to fire all lasers at once in a multi-laser ship.
I thought that was a bug... I may be wrong, but didn't they fix ships with multiple projectile mounts to drain off more seperate capacitors?
Aside, even if it's just 1 capacitor then you'll need the space for a larger capacitor instead of two capacitors then... doesn't really change the argument at all in the end - we still need more mass.
Anyway, about the topic. I think that the TIE interceptor should get two weapon hardpoints, never did quite understand why the Quad lasers on the X-wing and the Quad lasers on the Interceptor didn't follow the same rules. I argued for this in several threads in the beta forums, but never got much response.
I did too in beta, but noneof the devslistenned.
But I see a lot of missconceptions in this thread. People seem to think that more mass and more weapon hardpoints automatically equals a better ship, that's not quite true. If you give a ship more mass and more hardpoints, you will also have to limit the maneuverability and speed of the chassis to balance it all out.
True, but this can be tweaked with the chassis mods. In short, these mods can be made to minimuze of nullify the loss gained from the extra mass.
A good pilot in a TIE interceptor should be able to outmaneuver and outrun a good X-wing pilot most of the time.
In the EU maybe, but all things being equal in SE, the odds are nowhere near your favor when you're in a ship with low level armor/engine/guns/shields against with much higher levels of these items. As it is, my shields will only last 1 hit from a Tier 6 player weapon. My Tier 6 laser cannon, for example, is more than powerful enough to vaporize my shields and take out half my armor in a single hit.
While being a good pilot helps tons, having great equipment helps too, and a good pilot with great equipment is just untouchable.
No, all ships drain from the same capacitor. With some luck, you might be able to find a few decent very low level looted capacitors on the bazaar. I think I sawa level two or three onewith a recharge value of about 40. Should be enough for two weapons at the very least. Especially if your two weapons are player crafted ones with the speed limiter <---- The best upgrade ever if you plan on having more than one laser.
ArianSix wrote:
Why would you need a new capacitor? All weapons drain from the same capacitor, that is why it's not always a good idea to fire all lasers at once in a multi-laser ship.
I thought that was a bug... I may be wrong, but didn't they fix ships with multiple projectile mounts to drain off more seperate capacitors?
Aside, even if it's just 1 capacitor then you'll need the space for a larger capacitor instead of two capacitors then... doesn't really change the argument at all in the end - we still need more mass.
Vicotnik wrote:
No, all ships drain from the same capacitor. With some luck, you might be able to find a few decent very low level looted capacitors on the bazaar. I think I sawa level two or three onewith a recharge value of about 40. Should be enough for two weapons at the very least. Especially if your two weapons are player crafted ones with the speed limiter <---- The best upgrade ever if you plan on having more than one laser.
I'm not even sure if 40 with a speed limiter is going to be enough for high end weapons...
My current gun drains 36 at a rate of .43. I have a 40 capacitor so I'm basically pulling at a rate of 72/40 which means big negatives. This setup is good for medium duration bursts before I need to wait for a recharge (good enough for most use since you're rarely firing constantly).
If I were to pull this off with 2 guns, I'd either need twice the capacitance or much smaller guns. It's sortof a catch-22 since 2 small guns are not necessarily better than 1 big gun.
I have no idea how high capacitors go in their capacitance values, but I've yet to see anything over 40 and the size of those things is monstrous. I just happenned to be crazy lucky to find one that actually fit in my ship... once it breaks, I'll be hosed unless I switch to a bomber with the extra mass.
-- A6