Jump To Lightspeed Archive

Thread: The role of bomber (Y-Wing and B-Wing)

Feynan
Tue Jul 05, 2005 9:43 am
#27


I agree with you...in part.


The B-Wing is a great ship, I use it for everything. Soloing the Corvette, dogfighting, gunboats, duty missions, ISD, name anything under the sun and I've probably done it in my B-Wing, and not by choice either, just because I was bugged for the Adv. X-Wing quest and I only really use the A-Wing for PvP. It just takes some getting used to, and some good equipment.


The part that I agree with you on though is the bombing thing. This is a problem with all of JtL, not just bombers: the discrepency in defense is too small. The B-Wing has more mass then an A-Wing, which means it should be able to hold stronger shields, and it usually does, but the way mass scales compared to power (both in the case of defense and offense) is out of wack, ie. for every 10000 mass you go up, you're getting less and less for that 10000. This means that B-Wings shields are too small to compensate for it's lack of maneuverability. This is the same deal with POB ships.


What we need to do is find out an easy method to fix this. There's plenty of ways to do it, but most would require a lot of development time, so the Devs would be less likely to go for it. Easiest way I could think of: code is so that the heavier a ship is (the more mass it has) the more damage it mitigates. Such as:


0-100: 0%


100-150: 10%


150-200: 20%


200-300: 30%


300+: 50%


It would seem simple enough, since the code is already there (ala the PvP damage reduction).


It sucks that the heavier ships are not viable right now (ESPECIALLY in PvP: PvP damage needs to be reduced significantly, so that the pea-shooters that the smaller ships have are just that: pea-shooters, and take a while to take out the target, while a volley or two from a B-Wing would destroy a ship).


Edit: After reading the post above, I have an even better way to fix it then my damage mitigation example.


Instead, just give a bonus to shields and armor for the heavier ships. ie. B-Wing gets a 30% increase to shields and armor, and POB ships get a 50% increase. Basically if you were to load a 2000/2000 shield into a B-Wing, once loaded it would become 2666/2666, or for a POB ship it would become 3000/3000 (though not even that seems fare, the percentages should be even more).

Message Edited by Feynan on 07-05-2005 12:46 PM



Colonel Feynan Forsythe
Alliance Ace Pilot
Dragon942
Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:06 am
#28






BuzzBot wrote:
Yeah, true, but theoretically you could have the fighters form up on the side you were getting hit hardest on and have them absorb the damage. It's only theory though. Use outlandish strategies, of which I am too tired to figure out.





But as mentioned, your fighter escort can do your job (taking out the capitol ships) better than you. So why don't you just come in a fighter in the first place?

Message Edited by Dragon942 on 07-05-2005 02:06 PM



Starscreamer Sapphire
Starsider
rols_cerentz
Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:32 am
#29



Feynan wrote:

I agree with you...in part.

The B-Wing is a great ship, I use it for everything. Soloing the Corvette, dogfighting, gunboats, duty missions, ISD, name anything under the sun and I've probably done it in my B-Wing, and not by choice either, just because I was bugged for the Adv. X-Wing quest and I only really use the A-Wing for PvP. It just takes some getting used to, and some good equipment.

The part that I agree with you on though is the bombing thing. This is a problem with all of JtL, not just bombers: the discrepency in defense is too small. The B-Wing has more mass then an A-Wing, which means it should be able to hold stronger shields, and it usually does, but the way mass scales compared to power (both in the case of defense and offense) is out of wack, ie. for every 10000 mass you go up, you're getting less and less for that 10000. This means that B-Wings shields are too small to compensate for it's lack of maneuverability. This is the same deal with POB ships.

What we need to do is find out an easy method to fix this. There's plenty of ways to do it, but most would require a lot of development time, so the Devs would be less likely to go for it. Easiest way I could think of: code is so that the heavier a ship is (the more mass it has) the more damage it mitigates. Such as:

0-100: 0%

100-150: 10%

150-200: 20%

200-300: 30%

300+: 50%

It would seem simple enough, since the code is already there (ala the PvP damage reduction).

It sucks that the heavier ships are not viable right now (ESPECIALLY in PvP: PvP damage needs to be reduced significantly, so that the pea-shooters that the smaller ships have are just that: pea-shooters, and take a while to take out the target, while a volley or two from a B-Wing would destroy a ship).

Edit: After reading the post above, I have an even better way to fix it then my damage mitigation example.
Instead, just give a bonus to shields and armor for the heavier ships. ie. B-Wing gets a 30% increase to shields and armor, and POB ships get a 50% increase. Basically if you were to load a 2000/2000 shield into a B-Wing, once loaded it would become 2666/2666, or for a POB ship it would become 3000/3000 (though not even that seems fare, the percentages should be even more).

Message Edited by Feynan on 07-05-2005 12:46 PM





Mitigating damage is an excellent idea. The bombers should have that feature built into them.

Then, it would make more sense to pilot those in group missions to take out things, like the 'Vette. As it stands right now, I only use my Y-Wing "Longprobe" when I need the extra missiles, for when I need to use the tactic that I used on the 'Vette for the Advanced X-Wing mission.



--
Check out my NGE Interface Guide here and learn some ins and outs of the NGE Interface.

(1nnrr[[[nnnWX9ggggggggggggggggggggg)


Rols Cerentz
New Republic Order - Lowca
____________________________________________________
JanuHull
Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:41 am
#30






JaekeW wrote:


One of the problems is that they have strayed from the continuity of the galaxy. (surprise!!).


The TIE fighter, A-wing, and other small fighters are NOT supposed to have missile mounts.


One of the things that made the Xwing a prefered ship in the rebel fleet is it's balance of performance and armament. During the time of this game the Imperial arsenal didn't have anything in the Xwings class.





The A-Wing mounts missiles?



Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA

"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

werehere
Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:43 am
#31


Migrating damage for bombers 9and firespray and krayt included)


make craftable guns only for theses ships very powerful


add new heavy missiles just for bombers


add heavy shields too


kazzabev master sw and freelance ace

DarthGorilla
Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:44 am
#32

It has an ordinance slot but it's hardly worth mounting missles on them. I think all fighters have at least one missle slot.



Haunt; Pirate, Bounty Hunter, Scum of the galaxy.





ex-Col. Bendo Kyn, Grey Ghost Squadron. Retired

werehere
Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:44 am
#33

Add heavy guns just for bombers


add heavy missiles and shields just for bombers


kazzabev master sw and freelance ace


JanuHull
Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:56 am
#34






DarthGorilla wrote:
It has an ordinance slot but it's hardly worth mounting missles on them. I think all fighters have at least one missle slot.




Yeah, I've never bothered to even try... No mass for it anyway.



Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA

"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

Feynan
Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:12 pm
#35






JanuHull wrote:





DarthGorilla wrote:
It has an ordinance slot but it's hardly worth mounting missles on them. I think all fighters have at least one missle slot.




Yeah, I've never bothered to even try... No mass for it anyway.






I personally love ordnance. It can be insanely deadly: ever loaded up your Nova with three Mark II Spacebomb Launchers and fired them all at once at a gunboat? If you've got the engine or reactor targeted it's an insta-disable.


I think we should add two more ordnance slots on the B-Wing and Y-Wing, make them true bombers. If I were in a cap ship and saw a B-Wing heading at me with 4 Spacebombs locked on me, I'd be scared out of my mind. It wouldn't be so bad that they die fairly quickly either, since their goal is to really just get one volley off then fall back and defend themselves with blasters (or have their wingmen do that for them).


As someone else mentioed though, this would kill POB ships even more. Solution: make them missleboats. PersonallyI think POB ships should become missleboats, as they'll never be as effective as fighters or as cap ships in either dogfighting or raw damage, so they need their own niche. Change it so the turrets can fire ordnance (which would also solve the problem of targets being hard to hit with turrets: just get a lock and fire, the ordnance will follow the target even if it goes out of your firing arc, so turreters become much more dangerous), and add two more ordnance slots on the front, and allow ordnance to be reloaded through something in the ship (just a component that you bring up the radial menu for that lets you reload the ordnance). That's 7 ordnance slots on the POB ships. If that's not deadly I don't know what is. But they still suffer from being clunky, and that's okay, since like a bomber they just need to move in and get a volley or two off and then get out of there.


Think about it. It's like in real life (somewhat, a better comparison would probably be PlanetSide):soldiers are vulnerable to vehicles, vehicles are vulnerable to aircraft, aircraft are vulnerable tosoldiers. It's rock paper scissors. Everything has a weakness...Fighters are vulnerable to Cap ships, Cap ships are vulnerable to POB ships, POB ships are vulnerable to fighters.



Colonel Feynan Forsythe
Alliance Ace Pilot
JanuHull
Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:42 pm
#36






Feynan wrote:






JanuHull wrote:





DarthGorilla wrote:
It has an ordinance slot but it's hardly worth mounting missles on them. I think all fighters have at least one missle slot.




Yeah, I've never bothered to even try... No mass for it anyway.






I personally love ordnance. It can be insanely deadly: ever loaded up your Nova with three Mark II Spacebomb Launchers and fired them all at once at a gunboat? If you've got the engine or reactor targeted it's an insta-disable.




I believe I've mentioned on several posts, my Nova Courier is never without a full load of three Spacebomb IIs. Its the only way to solo in it that DOESN'T involve hitting the booster.



Janu Hull
CertifiedjWing Nut
CFA

"This is not the ground game, please see a therapist for your outrage."

JaekeW
Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:48 am
#37

I think bumping the mass of the master level fighters up to about 350k-400k would be a good start, It would let you equip multiple high-level guns, launchers etc.



Just think, a B-wing with RE'd level 10 engine and 4 RE'd level 10 guns.....now thats gonna make a mark on a gunboat


Or an Oppressor with 3 spacebomb launchers and 2 high level guns.....man....now thats some firepower



'course then the POB ships would be even further outclassed by the single person fighters



and while we're at it, make the damn Firespray a 2 -person ultralightFREIGHTER like it's suppossed to be







Expired Dec. 10 2006.
"I'm going on a very long holiday. And I don't expect I shall return. In fact I mean not to. " --- paraphrased with apologies
TsothaLanti
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:11 am
#38

Any developer or correspondant reading this thread could tell us whether SOE is aware of this problem and trying to fix it? Maybe Tiggs? There're a lot of useful ideas in this thread they could actually benefit from (or, at least, take into consideration).



Tsotha Lanti - Officer.
Khemsa Lanti - Shipwright.

Governor Tarkin: "The Jedi are extinct. You my friend are all that remains of their religion."
Lord Vader: "You don't get out much, do you?"
TsothaLanti
Wed Jul 06, 2005 1:20 am
#39

Is the pilot correspondant reading this? Could he or she forward this ideas (or the thread) to the developers and tell us whether SOE is aware of this problem and trying to fix it? Maybe Tiggs? There're a lot of useful ideas in this thread they could actually look at



Tsotha Lanti - Officer.
Khemsa Lanti - Shipwright.

Governor Tarkin: "The Jedi are extinct. You my friend are all that remains of their religion."
Lord Vader: "You don't get out much, do you?"
Page 3 of 4