Jump To Lightspeed Archive
Thread: just a thought
cough cough... Money cough cough... also your making someone happy, everyone loves a companion they can actually trust.
I have little need of money. For those that would like money, how much are you making selling CL 10 pets right now? Do you think adding 5 levels is suddenly going to suddenly change our income significantly? Money comes and goes anyways, it isn't a tangible benefit.
If they give non-handlers +5 CL, then I want +5 CL. Maybe +10. That might be a fair trade I can live with. How about more commands along the lines of Enrage and Embolden that can't simply be taught and passed out to anyone with a nuna?
and dont call me retarded but cant you use a like a rifle and do pistol moves.... how come I am not even a brawler but I can still use my exicuitioners hack?????? oh yeah cause im a high enough level...
Yes you can use pistol moves while using a rifle, however you have to know the pistol moves in order to do so. I cannot suddenly use Stopping Shot because I picked up a pistol, or Conceal and Sniper Shot because I am holding a rifle.
Honestly, we cannot compare controlling pets to using a gun. Using pets is a very unique form of combat.
However, it has been shown repeatedly that having a pet can fundamentally alter how someone plays. The more powerful the pet, the more powerful a player's other abilities become. It is the entire reason pet strength has been beaten down over and over and over. The only time pets do not sway a battle is when they are significantly less powerful than the player controlling them. It is why we will always be a second-class combat profession as long as we can hold a gun and control a pet at the same time.
It is also why I am not willing to boost other people's abilities if I am not getting a similar boost in my own at the same time. I'm already considered a second class citizen, do I really need to become third rate?
its just a companion for them... you guys are selfish... I just think that level 10 is way to weak of a pet now, and that with a higher level a BE pet would grow to a mountable size...
If they want a companion, what does the level matter? It doesn't, unless they are looking for an edge in combat. I've given plenty of companions away and not once heard a complaint about it being too low a level.
If they want CL 10 BE mounts, maybe they should ask to get BE mounts fixed. Or how about let BE's set the size instead of relying on CL. There are tons of solutions to this problem without raising the CL.
I always thought ALL CH were good people, but jeez, now I know why they nerf us, cause there is alot of selfish people.
This makes no sense whatsoever and is just insulting.
Is that not the way it is? Of course after reading it three times taking the meaning to be that a BH could use stopping shot with out having Pistol skills, yeah that would be a bit of a let down, on the other hand I think that over all that CH's are getting a bit of the red headed step child treatment in that our pets wild or BE are a little low in the stats area (my 2 cents worth) but with the way that mobs are, do you think that there is a HUGE difference between a level 10 pet vs. a CL 15 pet? From my xp pets don't do that much damage, other than having enough damage to keep the mob from regenning health, and to apply states. And has been mentioned before they still need a CH to level the pet to have any kind of use-ability. So there is still a big difference between a non-CH CL15 pet vs. a NCH CL15 pet.
Seiryuu wrote:
Well, I was just correcting the information on game history.
Having pets is cool. I think they can enhance the play experience greatly and Raph did a wonderful job on the initial design of the system (thematically). Mounts are an awesome concept even if vehicles have overshadowed them.
However, I don't feel that Non-handlers should not be given pets that are significantly useful without investing skill points. If they find pets so useful they want one, then they can find the skillpoints to use them. I am not willing to give my abilities away unless I am getting something in return. Maybe that is a selfish way to look at it, but it diminishes the uniqueness of a profession to me otherwise. How would Pistoleers feel if there was a system implemented that let us put their class specials into a pistol anyone could use? Riflemen? Bounty Hunters?
If, on the other hand, one feels giving away low-end abilities does not hurt a profession, then I would say that means they bring too little benefit and need to be looked at for improvement.
We already have a very open skill system. I favor these over rigid class structures, but there has to be some way to limit to the overlap else everyone becomes duplicates of one another. While not necessarily a bad thing, the design of this game did intend for there to be some variety and skillpoints are the means of enforcing it.
CritterControl wrote:
just because we dont agree with you doesnt make us selfish. you are the one who asked us our opinion. you need to respect other peoples ideas. we are all CH's and some have just as much experience if not more then you. a good non-ch should be able to keep a lvl 10 alive period. 5 lvls really isnt going to help much except for the bio mount size problem. you wont win anyone over being rude to the fellow people in your profession
Nor will you!
nilknoc60073 wrote:
How many people use an advanced laser rifle who don't have any rifle and or marksman. There are al lot of weapons out there that all you need is a combat level. So how about we do this if you have cl of 54 you can use a cl15 pet. if you are under cl54 u can use up to cl10 pet.
Now this I can really agree on. CL54 PC's with CL15 Pets Yes that's a good thing, have something for them to work up to.
Having pets is cool. I think they can enhance the play experience greatly and Raph did a wonderful job on the initial design of the system (thematically). Mounts are an awesome concept even if vehicles have overshadowed them.
However, I don't feel that Non-handlers should not be given pets that are significantly useful without investing skill points. If they find pets so useful they want one, then they can find the skillpoints to use them. I am not willing to give my abilities away unless I am getting something in return. Maybe that is a selfish way to look at it, but it diminishes the uniqueness of a profession to me otherwise. How would Pistoleers feel if there was a system implemented that let us put their class specials into a pistol anyone could use? Riflemen? Bounty Hunters?
If, on the other hand, one feels giving away low-end abilities does not hurt a profession, then I would say that means they bring too little benefit and need to be looked at for improvement.
We already have a very open skill system. I favor these over rigid class structures, but there has to be some way to limit to the overlap else everyone becomes duplicates of one another. While not necessarily a bad thing, the design of this game did intend for there to be some variety and skillpoints are the means of enforcing it.
If a non-CH is using a pet correctly, it'll never get incapped. Ever. You can't use them to draw aggro or tank, and you shouldn't be able to because that is where the people who invest skill points in CH excel. But you can easily group with a pet (assuming that you are in a solo or small group situation, because a large group won't benefit much if at all from a CL10 pet). That brings it up to CL80 (or whatever level you are), eliminating the level mod that would make them do 10 damage a hit or such. As long as you attack first, and are doing even basic damage for your level, the pet will not draw any aggro at all because of its relatively small damage per hit, but that damage still adds up and can be a nice help for taking down a tough creature. I don't know about you, but if I'm trying to kill something that is CL80 elite I'll take any bit of help I can get.
As for droids.... they should be more powerful. A well built machine should be in all ways more effective than a small animal. But notice that pets still have an advantage. Droids do more damage and have more health, enabling some limited tanking. Makes sense, a droid would be much more able to withstand damage than a weakflesh and blood creature. But the creatures have special attacks, and also have health regen. Brings up a choice of whether you would rather have something dealing special attacks, or would you rather have something that goes for damage. And if you don't care about that, you can pick solely on whether a droid or a creature appeals to you more, and you'll have something effective either way.
dude i want to know why the hell you thought my reply was rude? i said nothing bad against the man. he was the one cutting everyone else down. i respect that he wants it to be lvl 15 but i gave my opinion on the matter and i get cut down for it when he specifically asked for others opinions.
and Archiie i have given you what i think would be fair options for a lvl 15 ina previous post so plz do not say i havent given any suggestions. if they make non ch have lvl 15 again then they would have to raise the novice ch to 17 at least. and if they do that then masters should be able to control lvl 75s. non chs cant expect to gain part of a profession without the people who actually spend the points getting something for the loss. i maybe able to use a gun but i cant use any special abilities and im basically gimped by using it. a pet only adds good things to the person who uses it. there is no penelty for using a pet by a person who has no ch skill points.
Message Edited by CritterControl on 08-31-2005 05:31 AM
Seiryuu wrote:
cough cough... Money cough cough... also your making someone happy, everyone loves a companion they can actually trust.
I have little need of money. For those that would like money, how much are you making selling CL 10 pets right now? Do you think adding 5 levels is suddenly going to suddenly change our income significantly? Money comes and goes anyways, it isn't a tangible benefit.
If they give non-handlers +5 CL, then I want +5 CL. Maybe +10. That might be a fair trade I can live with. How about more commands along the lines of Enrage and Embolden that can't simply be taught and passed out to anyone with a nuna?
and dont call me retarded but cant you use a like a rifle and do pistol moves.... how come I am not even a brawler but I can still use my exicuitioners hack?????? oh yeah cause im a high enough level...
Yes you can use pistol moves while using a rifle, however you have to know the pistol moves in order to do so. I cannot suddenly use Stopping Shot because I picked up a pistol, or Conceal and Sniper Shot because I am holding a rifle.
Honestly, we cannot compare controlling pets to using a gun. Using pets is a very unique form of combat.
However, it has been shown repeatedly that having a pet can fundamentally alter how someone plays. The more powerful the pet, the more powerful a player's other abilities become. It is the entire reason pet strength has been beaten down over and over and over. The only time pets do not sway a battle is when they are significantly less powerful than the player controlling them. It is why we will always be a second-class combat profession as long as we can hold a gun and control a pet at the same time.
It is also why I am not willing to boost other people's abilities if I am not getting a similar boost in my own at the same time. I'm already considered a second class citizen, do I really need to become third rate?
its just a companion for them... you guys are selfish... I just think that level 10 is way to weak of a pet now, and that with a higher level a BE pet would grow to a mountable size...
If they want a companion, what does the level matter? It doesn't, unless they are looking for an edge in combat. I've given plenty of companions away and not once heard a complaint about it being too low a level.
If they want CL 10 BE mounts, maybe they should ask to get BE mounts fixed. Or how about let BE's set the size instead of relying on CL. There are tons of solutions to this problem without raising the CL.
I always thought ALL CH were good people, but jeez, now I know why they nerf us, cause there is alot of selfish people.
This makes no sense whatsoever and is just insulting.
ok Critter, I am sry for being so rude.... Its just I felt your post kinda jumped down my throat on the idea, and i got a little offended
but seiryuu........ What the Hell are you talking about.. I think your missing the point here... you are making it seem like we are uber strong and that adding simply 5 levels to a non-ch pet would start making others startkickin butt and take advantage of our profession.
Didn't you read? They can't train or control the pet or anything, yes its an edge in combat, not a big edge.. but a dalyrake Matriarch would hold off alot better then a whomp rat if you ask me. Especially with the new hate system,and HINT, non-ch can only useNON agressive creatures. So it isnt like they are using level 15 super rancors. Yes an increase in our level would be nice too, I didnt mention that if non-ch go up to 15 then novice CH can have up to 15 yet have the ability to train and tame added on.Saying thatwell... is selfish....Chill out, and think a little before you type.
Message Edited by ArchiieBarrett on 08-31-2005 11:48 AM
you know I made a good point and worte back a nasty letter, but my internet pooped when I sent it.. so it never went through..
So I am just gunna be plain and simple.... stop trying to be right, cause your making a fool of yourself.. it is compltely fair, the facts are there.. dont write back.
Let people say wether they like the idea or not, I dont need to be flamed for a pathetic reason, you are just not seeing it and are getting too over the top on it. If you want the reasons send me a private message and I will tell you them flat out why its not bad, I dont need to flame anymore.
Sorry for writing back. I guess I'm bad at following orders.
People are free to comment here as they wish. I'm not stopping them. I'm not even telling them not to write. They're welcome to make their opinions known just as I've done with mine.
What the Hell are you talking about.. I think your missing the point here... you are making it seem like we are uber strong and that adding simply 5 levels to a non-ch pet would start making others start kickin butt and take advantage of our profession.
I think you are the one missing the point. It may not be a lot of power, but you are suggesting giving away a little of what we do have. If we aren't uber strong then what little we have is that much more important.
And what's to stop the next person from asking for CL 20? It's not that much stronger than CL 15. And it's only a little of what we do have.
Why not CL 25? I mean, there are some really cool pets between 20 and 25. And they aren't that much stronger. Since they can only use one, it won't be all that much of a benefit. And it's only a little of what we do have.
Why not just allow everyone CL 70? It's not like we are uber strong and adding a few level is going to make others start kickin butt and take advantage of our profession.
Your argument is based on a false premise. It doesn't matter what power you are giving away, you still want to give it away. If they want to use the pet as anything other than a companion, they can spend the skill points.
Didn't you read? They can't train or control the pet or anything, yes its an edge in combat, not a big edge..
What does a non-handler need to train when a CH can give them a pet with everything we know? There will always be someone willing to train a pet. Maybe not the person they obtained it from, but there will be someone.
How do you mean they cannot control it? If the pet knows all the commands, they can control it just fine. Since I am pretty sure you are not suggesting the need to be able to train a command to order a pet to use it, how exactly is this a useful defense?
A non-handler can use a CL 10 pet just as well as I can. There is no difference. So you are right, there is not an edge. Which means the only benefit the Creature Handler has is convenience.
Especially with the new hate system, and HINT, non-ch can only use NON agressive creatures. So it isnt like they are using level 15 super rancors. Yes an increase in our level would be nice too, I didnt mention that if non-ch go up to 15 then novice CH can have up to 15 yet have the ability to train and tame added on.
Except for reports of that new bug that lets anyone use a non-aggressive creatures...
And I don't consider letting the only benefit to Novice being that they can tame and teach the very basic commands a benefit. The +2 is already a laughable benefit. Anyone else at an equivalent level of skill in another combat profession is fighting CL 20 creatures. We're already behind the curve, yet your suggestion is that a non-handler can have both a good gun and a pet very close to their combat level.
aying that well... is selfish.... Chill out, and think a little before you type.
No, it's about balance. Chill out and think about what you're giving away.
Why is it in this day and age that if you disagree with someone its immedietly flaming that person? Diagreeing is NOT flaming. Flaming would be saying, "I disagree with what your saying, and because your saying it you are an idiot and a retard". I haven't seen any of that going on with Seiryuu. Just a civil disagreement.
The closest thing to flaming in this post is you calling people selfish just because we disagree with giving anyone in the game more of what gives us our slight advantage, even if it is just a bit more.
ArchiieBarrett wrote:
Ok what if they gave Non-CH the abilty to control up to level 15 again.... ok yes I am a MCH and have been a long long time and yes it is coming from my noggin. I think that now, with the new system, a non-ch with a level 15 pet wouldnt be a threat.
1. Level 10 pets are just simply too weak and I know alot of people hwo arnt CH but like to have pets, want to fight beside them without having to worry about it dropping in 1 hit fomr a level 80 mob. More level 15 and so pets have ranged and better defense, plus a larger variety cause no non-ch wants a kreetle...
2. BE pets grow to size now. A level 15 full grown BE Cu pa IS a mountable size... This gives BE the ability to make the non-ch BE mounts again... WE though as CH have to train it for size and mount it anyway... unless the BE is both.
I just think with the new system and the way things work now that it would be safe for a non-ch to have a level 10-15 pet. There are no super BE pets anymore and the more mounts the more $$.
I've bounced this issue around in my own noggin a time or two. Basically, the issue revolves around matching the pet to the level of the challenge faced by players, as the player's level (and the challenges he/she faces) changes.
I'd do two things: First, I'd set it up so that non-CH players start out only able to use a pet at least two levels below them, while starting the characters themselves at level-3 instead of level-one. And second, as the characters increase in level, the level difference between the pet they can use and their own level would increase, eventually reaching a cap where they can no longer increase the level of pet they can use. But definitely, I'd like to see a system that allows the entire player base to use common mountable creatures like cu pas, kaadu (for sure!), dewbacks, and banthas.